Divorce question

[Skeeter 1]

If there's a way to talk with the CO, Hank is the one who'll know the way to get to him/her. I totally get your point of view, in my mind the presumptive death is just a form of divorce they use there because they don't have a legal divorce. Heck the presumptive death is harder to get than a divorce in the USA! But when they've got orders from above, its what they need to follow. Currently you're attempting to meet the requirement of proving her single when the petition was filed. Proving single now doesn't meet the requirement, and the divorce decree dated after the petition was filed just proves she was married when it was filed.

Well, hmmm, I'm not really trying to prove her to be single. The Philippine courts already did that. Problem is that the US consulate doesn't want to buy it. It doesn't mean that she wasn't single and able to marry at the time of her interview but only that they wanted better proof of that death more than just the courts to deem it so. So, in our search for that death or whatever, we actually came up with him instead of his death. I'd like to think that we are simply proving her ability to remarry in yet another way. One way satisfies the PI courts and the other way now will or should satisfy the US consulate. I'd like for them to say, Hmmm, ok, we do agree that she is able to marry according to PI law but we wanted further proof of you ability, and there's your new divorce decree from the husband you originally thought was dead. Well, that's what I'd like to hear anyway.

Mike

[Skeeter 1]

If there's a way to talk with the CO, Hank is the one who'll know the way to get to him/her. I totally get your point of view, in my mind the presumptive death is just a form of divorce they use there because they don't have a legal divorce. Heck the presumptive death is harder to get than a divorce in the USA! But when they've got orders from above, its what they need to follow. Currently you're attempting to meet the requirement of proving her single when the petition was filed. Proving single now doesn't meet the requirement, and the divorce decree dated after the petition was filed just proves she was married when it was filed.

...................... and the divorce decree dated after the petition was filed just proves she was married when it was filed.

But Caryh, she wasn't married. The court said she was free and able to remarry anyone she wanted to. It was merely the consul who didn't want to accept that. The consul didn't really say he wasn't dead. They said well, if he is presumed dead then show us the death certificate. But legally able to marry was on her COM whether or not he was really dead shouldn't have mattered especially if no one was aware of that fact. As per the court's requisites for presumptive death they say that SHE is supposed to give diligence to finding him. Not ME. I barely knew her at the time she filed that. What Filipinas does anyone know that has proper resourses to accomplish such a thing or even money enough to do it. They don't have the same resources as we do. Awfully tough for a Filipina to do a diligent search for someone half way around the world, So, now that they said, hey, you're simply lying little girl so now you have to prove what is assumed and we really don't care what the PI courts said or ruled. Whatever happened to "comity" between sovereign countries? The consul is simply telling the PI court to blow it out their blowhole. Well, that's when I took on that search for him. And even after a time I pretty much gave up because all searches ran into a brick wall with him with nothing beyond the year 2010. It was by mere chance that I wrote a letter to a niece of his which I found her name on her grandma's obituary. I located her and begged her to attempt to locate the man for me or at least give me a number for him or something. Well, she must have pretty good influence over him because it was three days later that he contacted her through Yahoo Messenger and after they talked a good bit he agreed a divorce is the proper thing. But now you guys are telling me that the consul is basically gonna shove it back into our shorts when they see a good and proper divorce decree. Is there no way to get hold of these people to try to explain? haha, will they even try to understand? Why is it impossible to call someone or to write to someone?

Mike

[icebryker 21]

We are here hoping the best for you Skeet. Just laying out the possibilities. It is better to be prepared for anything and everything the consul can think of.

Who knows... they might accept just the divorce decree and wooohooo she finally gets her visa!!

[Hank_ 9,174]

Well, hmmm, I'm not really trying to prove her to be single. The Philippine courts already did that. Problem is that the US consulate doesn't want to buy it. It doesn't mean that she wasn't single and able to marry at the time of her interview but only that they wanted better proof of that death more than just the courts to deem it so. So, in our search for that death or whatever, we actually came up with him instead of his death. I'd like to think that we are simply proving her ability to remarry in yet another way. One way satisfies the PI courts and the other way now will or should satisfy the US consulate. I'd like for them to say, Hmmm, ok, we do agree that she is able to marry according to PI law but we wanted further proof of you ability, and there's your new divorce decree from the husband you originally thought was dead. Well, that's what I'd like to hear anyway.

Mike

Well in this situation she has to be free to marry according to U.S. law.

I hope the embassy is in a good mood when they get the decree.

[Hank_ 9,174]

...................... and the divorce decree dated after the petition was filed just proves she was married when it was filed.

But Caryh, she wasn't married. The court said she was free and able to remarry anyone she wanted to. It was merely the consul who didn't want to accept that. The consul didn't really say he wasn't dead. They said well, if he is presumed dead then show us the death certificate. But legally able to marry was on her COM whether or not he was really dead shouldn't have mattered especially if no one was aware of that fact. As per the court's requisites for presumptive death they say that SHE is supposed to give diligence to finding him. Not ME. I barely knew her at the time she filed that. What Filipinas does anyone know that has proper resourses to accomplish such a thing or even money enough to do it. They don't have the same resources as we do. Awfully tough for a Filipina to do a diligent search for someone half way around the world, So, now that they said, hey, you're simply lying little girl so now you have to prove what is assumed and we really don't care what the PI courts said or ruled. Whatever happened to "comity" between sovereign countries? The consul is simply telling the PI court to blow it out their blowhole. Well, that's when I took on that search for him. And even after a time I pretty much gave up because all searches ran into a brick wall with him with nothing beyond the year 2010. It was by mere chance that I wrote a letter to a niece of his which I found her name on her grandma's obituary. I located her and begged her to attempt to locate the man for me or at least give me a number for him or something. Well, she must have pretty good influence over him because it was three days later that he contacted her through Yahoo Messenger and after they talked a good bit he agreed a divorce is the proper thing. But now you guys are telling me that the consul is basically gonna shove it back into our shorts when they see a good and proper divorce decree. Is there no way to get hold of these people to try to explain? haha, will they even try to understand? Why is it impossible to call someone or to write to someone?

Mike

- sort of. But we are all hoping the embassy is gentle and forgiving so that you two can move forward. We just know what the requirements are for this process, and a "new" divorce decree dated beyond the date of the initial petition raises red flags.

The presumed dead thing may be fine for the Philippines but ....

We are all hoping for the best, but no sense in peeing on your boot then try to tell you it is rain.... be prepared.

[jgoodman 8]

...................... and the divorce decree dated after the petition was filed just proves she was married when it was filed.

But Caryh, she wasn't married. The court said she was free and able to remarry anyone she wanted to. It was merely the consul who didn't want to accept that. The consul didn't really say he wasn't dead. They said well, if he is presumed dead then show us the death certificate. But legally able to marry was on her COM whether or not he was really dead shouldn't have mattered especially if no one was aware of that fact. As per the court's requisites for presumptive death they say that SHE is supposed to give diligence to finding him. Not ME. I barely knew her at the time she filed that. What Filipinas does anyone know that has proper resourses to accomplish such a thing or even money enough to do it. They don't have the same resources as we do. Awfully tough for a Filipina to do a diligent search for someone half way around the world, So, now that they said, hey, you're simply lying little girl so now you have to prove what is assumed and we really don't care what the PI courts said or ruled. Whatever happened to "comity" between sovereign countries? The consul is simply telling the PI court to blow it out their blowhole. Well, that's when I took on that search for him. And even after a time I pretty much gave up because all searches ran into a brick wall with him with nothing beyond the year 2010. It was by mere chance that I wrote a letter to a niece of his which I found her name on her grandma's obituary. I located her and begged her to attempt to locate the man for me or at least give me a number for him or something. Well, she must have pretty good influence over him because it was three days later that he contacted her through Yahoo Messenger and after they talked a good bit he agreed a divorce is the proper thing. But now you guys are telling me that the consul is basically gonna shove it back into our shorts when they see a good and proper divorce decree. Is there no way to get hold of these people to try to explain? haha, will they even try to understand? Why is it impossible to call someone or to write to someone?

Mike

Hi Mike, I am hoping for the best for you and your fiance. The thing that stands out to me is that even though the Philippine court ruled that she was free to marry at the time because of presumptive death, the fact that there is now proof that the guy is still alive means that the ruling was erronious. This means that she was not then and is not now free to marry. I am surprised to hear they (NVC and embassy), will not need a cenomar saying she is free to marry for a valid reason. You can speak with people both at the NVC and the embassy who may be able to connect you with someone who can answer your questions. I would certainly call them to get an idea of where you stand.

Best of luck.

[Skeeter 1]

Well in this situation she has to be free to marry according to U.S. law.

I hope the embassy is in a good mood when they get the decree.

Well, Hank, when this lands back at the embassy, will it not be the same consular who gave this requirement in the first place? Is there chance that someone else will look at it at that time and make a different interpretation? I'm personally not thinking so but maybe you know different. Also, do YOU possibly know of who or where I can make a call or write a letter to so that I can ask them point blank if what I'm doing is what will satisfy them? I'd realy like to hear someone say, "Yes, Mike, if you do that it will satisfy your requirement or NO, it has to be blah blah. At least then I will know which avenue to travel down. They seem to make us jump through hoops of flames only to come out the other end charred to ashes and then say, Well, looks like you chose the wrong hoop. Go back and start again and see if you can't get it right this time. Oh, and sorry, I can't tell you which hoop to choose. You will just find out at the other end of you are burned again or not. Well, I love a good analogy. So, what do you think Hank. Is there someone or some office you know of where I can ask them directly and specifically about my case and get a direct answer? This would really solve all the speculation and then we'd know exactly what to do.

Mike

[Skeeter 1]

We are here hoping the best for you Skeet. Just laying out the possibilities. It is better to be prepared for anything and everything the consul can think of.

Who knows... they might accept just the divorce decree and wooohooo she finally gets her visa!!

Thanks icebryker. Appreciate that.

But hey folks, as I'm sitting here racking my brain, a thought just jumped up here to the front. I'm remembering the day my fiance called me after she left the embassy in tears to give me the low-down. All of a sudden I'm recalling something she specificallly told me about what the consular told her. It went something like this and then you guys can tell me what you think about it then:

I recall her saying that the consular asked her "how do you know he is dead?" "Maybe he's somewhere in the US and still alive". I forget what her response to that was but then the consular said to her, "maybe your fiance there can search for him or pay someone to try to find him". Yes, I recall that most definitely now. I'm gonna check with her again tonight during our chat to have her tell me EXACTLY what she remembers the consular saying. Cuz what I'm thinking now is maybe she will sort of expect that ME, the US citizen with all the resourses can come up with something on the man. If dead then obtain death certificate. If alive then (my speculation here).

If indeed this woman said that to her, does that change any of your minds about speculating what might work or what still might not based on how she said those statements?

Mike

[Skeeter 1]

Hi Mike, I am hoping for the best for you and your fiance. The thing that stands out to me is that even though the Philippine court ruled that she was free to marry at the time because of presumptive death, the fact that there is now proof that the guy is still alive means that the ruling was erronious. This means that she was not then and is not now free to marry. I am surprised to hear they (NVC and embassy), will not need a cenomar saying she is free to marry for a valid reason. You can speak with people both at the NVC and the embassy who may be able to connect you with someone who can answer your questions. I would certainly call them to get an idea of where you stand.

Best of luck.

I appreciate that jgoodman. But does anyone here know where it is that I should call? I'll call them in a heartbeat if I can find someone who will give me a definitive answer on what will work for them and not.

Hank, do you know where I could/should call?

Mike

[Hank_ 9,174]

Well, Hank, when this lands back at the embassy, will it not be the same consular who gave this requirement in the first place? Is there chance that someone else will look at it at that time and make a different interpretation? I'm personally not thinking so but maybe you know different. Also, do YOU possibly know of who or where I can make a call or write a letter to so that I can ask them point blank if what I'm doing is what will satisfy them? I'd realy like to hear someone say, "Yes, Mike, if you do that it will satisfy your requirement or NO, it has to be blah blah. At least then I will know which avenue to travel down. They seem to make us jump through hoops of flames only to come out the other end charred to ashes and then say, Well, looks like you chose the wrong hoop. Go back and start again and see if you can't get it right this time. Oh, and sorry, I can't tell you which hoop to choose. You will just find out at the other end of you are burned again or not. Well, I love a good analogy. So, what do you think Hank. Is there someone or some office you know of where I can ask them directly and specifically about my case and get a direct answer? This would really solve all the speculation and then we'd know exactly what to do.

Mike

Is there someone? Like maybe the great and all powerful OZ? I don't know of anyone that you can call or a special number you can call. We all learn right here... sadly. Sorry.

As for the same CO checking the file after you turn in the divorce decree, I am pretty sure the same someone will do the initial review, then a second one will review the file after that. I am pretty sure when they see the divorce decree that they will follows the rules also....

This is why there is so much speculation going on with your situation, because the petition was approved on a "presumed dead", the embassy doesn't accept "presumed dead" and wants an actual death certificate... a divorce decree shows up instead... now the evidence of free to marry has totally changed.

If you read the requirements (instructions) with the I-129F you have to see that going from "dead" to getting a divorce after application doesn't just rock the boat it pulls the cork and the boat sinks - you both have to be FREE TO MARRY before application. The embassy has caught from USCIS before and have returned the file without approval.

We can all hope they give you two a "get out of jail free" card, but my gut says you will get a - go do it over.

[Tahoma 2,292]

Skeeter...Once your fiancée submits her certified divorce decree to the USEM, I believe the presumptive death decree will not stand in the way of her visa approval. The USEM has the authority to make that happen.

As a side note, the I-129F that I submitted to the USCIS did not have any of the tick boxes filled out. None of them. I never received an RFE from the USCIS. At her K-1 interview, Chinook was given a 221g which directed her to submit a fully-filled-out page three of my I-129F. Only page three. This was good enough for the USEM.

Regarding your case, the one thing I would be apprehensive about would be whether the CFO would require your fiancée to get her divorce recognized through the Filipino court. Your fiancée should ask her aunt about it. I would certainly be interested in what her aunt has to say about it.

By the way, if you feel the need to talk to someone at the USEM, you could always call the Immigrant Visa Unit and talk to your Filipino case worker. Chinook and I both did that.

[icebryker 21]

Hi Skeet, any updates?

[Skeeter 1]

Hi Skeet, any updates?

No, icebryker. Nothing in particular to report as yet. We are now at the point to where the husband in Nevada will be filing for that divorce tomorrow, Tuesday 2/18. Should only take a couple of weeks. After all the papers are filed and the divorce is granted then I suppose all we can do is hope for the best. Because if this doesn't work I have no idea of what to do afterwards. I suppose they'll either approve it all, OR, they kick it all back and tell us to start over, OR, maybe they'll generate another 221g with some different requirement on account of the change. I guess we'll see.

Thanks for your continued interest. I appreciate that. I won't forget to post the new events as they happen. I know a lot of you have a lot of reading and thought poured into my situation.

Mike

[actob99 156]

Anyway, to make it short, no story, only the facts.

Thanks for your responses,

Mike

I can see this went out the window....