New trial sought for South Carolina boy, 14, executed in 1944

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

Yeah, I guess you missed it again.

Man A- Don't you know every Black man was sent to Jail in 1940.

Man B- Every single one?

Man A- Yes every single one and if you question my numbers it simply proves you supported this travesty.

Man B- What numbers.... you simply made a claim that every black man was jailed...with no proof.

Man A- Google it.

When did anyone say that every black man was jailed? Dave and myself were simply pointing out the system was(and still is) against minorites and poor people. Back in the 1940's 50% of black people were unemployed, most of their jobs were given to white people. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexperience/features/general-article/dustbowl-great-depression/

African Americans suffered more than whites, since their jobs were often taken away from them and given to whites. In 1930, 50 percent of blacks were unemployed. However, Eleanor Roosevelt championed black rights, and New Deal programs prohibited discrimination. Discrimination continued in the South, however, as a result a large number of black voters switched from the Republican to the Democrat party during the Depression.

As far as the legal system goes: http://www.eji.org/childrenprison/deathinprison

Most of the sentences imposed on these children were mandatory: the court could not give any consideration to the child’s age or life history. Some of the children were charged with crimes that do not involve homicide or even injury; many were convicted for offenses where older teens or adults were primarily responsible for the crime; 70% of condemned kids 14 or younger are children of color.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Sounds like your typical chronology of debating liberal in here

cept it usually ends with an insult and a you can not comprehend" I.E. my points make no sense to anyone but me and the DNC staffer who wrote them"

The difference between you and the 'Liberals' you keep harping on about is that if I, for example, address you directly as an individual (as I am doing here), the best you can seemingly do is to generalise based on a cartoonish stereotype that is clearly influenced by talk radio and corporate news networks. In other words, your ideas lack originality and suffer from innate prejudices. In other words, they only have meaning and impact to people who think like you.

When you're ready to actually have a two way conversation with someone who disagrees with you, I'm sure someone will engage. Until then, you're simply not worth the effort.

This would be you right now:

E-You can't comprehend what I am saying, or as they say around here between every statement.. "Know what I saying".

Edited January 27, 2014 by Papa Lazarou

[Danno 1,228]

When did anyone say that every black man was jailed? Dave and myself were simply pointing out the system was(and still is) against minorites and poor people. Back in the 1940's 50% of black people were unemployed, most of their jobs were given to white people. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexperience/features/general-article/dustbowl-great-depression/

African Americans suffered more than whites, since their jobs were often taken away from them and given to whites. In 1930, 50 percent of blacks were unemployed. However, Eleanor Roosevelt championed black rights, and New Deal programs prohibited discrimination. Discrimination continued in the South, however, as a result a large number of black voters switched from the Republican to the Democrat party during the Depression.

As far as the legal system goes: http://www.eji.org/childrenprison/deathinprison

We agree the legal deck was stacked against blacks in the 40's, even more so than poor whites, to suggest that this is the case today is grabbing at straws.

-Believe it or not, in the 40's Blacks did commit crimes and (just like today) at greater rates than whites. It should be no surprise that some blacks were locked up. Just like today, most Black criminals preyed on Black victims.

-We know today that Blacks get longer sentences and get locked up in greater numbers in parts of the country where the Justice system is well represented with minorities (Judges, Juries, DA's, Cops, Lawyers). Are you suggesting that they are all in on the effort to pipe-line blacks to prison?

-Forgive me for not placing too much confidence in the second link you posted, it is about as biased as they come.

Edited January 28, 2014 by Danno

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

We agree the legal deck was stacked against blacks in the 40's, even more so than poor whites, to suggest that this is the case today is grabbing at straws.

-Believe it or not, in the 40's Blacks did commit crimes and (just like today) at greater rates than whites. It should be no surprise that some blacks were locked up. Just like today, most Black criminals preyed on Black victims.

-We know today that Blacks get longer sentences and get locked up in greater numbers in parts of the country where the Justice system is well represented with minorities (Judges, Juries, DA's, Cops, Lawyers). Are you suggesting that they are all in on the effort to pipe-line blacks to prison?

-Forgive me for not placing too much confidence in the second link you posted, it is about as biased as they come.

Let's start with the first statement:

We agree the legal deck was stacked against blacks in the 40's, even more so than poor whites, to suggest that this is the case today is grabbing at straws.

http://www.opensocietyfoundations.org/reports/racial-disparity-sentencing

Direct Racial Discrimination

Key findings:

• There is evidence of direct racial discrimination (against minority defendants in sentencing outcomes);
• Evidence of direct discrimination at the federal level is more prominent than at the state level;
• Blacks are more likely to be disadvantaged in terms of sentence length at the federal level, whereas Latinos are more likely to be disadvantaged in terms of the decision to incarcerate;
• At the state level, both Latinos and blacks are far more likely to be disadvantaged in the decision to incarcerate or not, as opposed to the decision regarding sentence length.

If you look at the entire article, you'll see that blacks and latinos are discriminated against in EVERY single scenario.

-Believe it or not, in the 40's Blacks did commit crimes and (just like today) at greater rates than whites. It should be no surprise that some blacks were locked up. Just like today, most Black criminals preyed on Black victims.

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/table-43

• In 2011, 69.2 percent of all individuals arrested were white, 28.4 percent were black, and 2.4 percent were of other races.
• Of all juveniles (individuals under the age of 18) arrested in 2011 in the nation, 65.7 percent were white, 32.0 percent were black, and 2.3 percent were of other races.
• Nearly 70 percent (69.7) of all adults (18 years of age and over) arrested in 2011 were white, 27.9 percent were black, and 2.3 percent were of other races.
• White individuals were arrested more often for violent crimes than individuals of any other race, accounting for 59.4 percent of those arrests.
• The percentages of white adults and black adults arrested for murder were similar, with 48.2 percent being white, and 49.4 percent being black.
• Juveniles who were black accounted for 51.4 percent of juvenile arrests for violent crimes.
• Juveniles who were white accounted for 62.4 percent of juvenile arrests for property crimes.
• Of the juveniles arrested for driving under the influence, 91.6 percent were white.
• Juveniles who were white accounted for 72.9 percent of the persons under 18 who were arrested for arson in 2011.

Now, let's talk about this kid who you think might have committed this crime: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Stinney

Stinney, an African-American youth, was convicted of the first-degree murder of two pre-teen white girls: 11-year-old Betty June Binnicker, and 8-year-old Mary Emma Thames; however, no physical evidence existed in the case, and the sole evidence against Stinney was the circumstantial fact the girls had spoken with Stinney and his sister shortly before their murder, and the testimony of three white police officers, who testified at a trial which lasted barely two hours,that Stinney had confessed to the murders.

Hmm, no physical evidence existed in the case, and the only thing that could be proven was George and his sister spoke to the girls before they were murdered. Nothing fishy about that.

Following Stinney's arrest, Stinney's father was fired from his job. Stinney's parents and siblings were given the choice of leaving town or being lynched. The family was forced to flee, leaving George Stinney with no support during his 81-day confinement and trial.

Let's see, you fire the sole bread winner at home, and you force the family to leave under the threat of death. That's how you conduct a murder investigation.

Stinney's court-appointed defense counsel was a tax commissioner campaigning for election to local political office. Stinney's lawyer did not challenge the three police officers who testified Stinney confessed to the two murders, despite this being the only evidence presented by the prosecution. The police did not make written records of Stinney's purported confession, and at trial, Stinney denied confessing to the crime.

That makes sense. There was no confession, the defense didn't even try to defend him, and he even said he didn't confess to it. I guess his lawyer thought he could make it on his good looks alone, since he had absolutely no one in the entire city to protect him or his rights.

Other than the testimony of the three police officers, at trial, prosecutors called three inconsequential witnesses: the man who discovered the bodies of the two girls, and the two doctors who performed the post mortem. Stinney's counsel did not call any witnesses. Trial presentation lasted two-and-a-half hours. The jury took ten minutes to deliberate, after which they returned with a guilty verdict.

I'm surprised they took 10 minutes. I mean, this kid must have done it. All that evidence against him was staggering...

[Danno 1,228]

Let's start with the first statement:

We agree the legal deck was stacked against blacks in the 40's, even more so than poor whites, to suggest that this is the case today is grabbing at straws.

http://www.opensocietyfoundations.org/reports/racial-disparity-sentencing

Direct Racial Discrimination

Key findings:

• There is evidence of direct racial discrimination (against minority defendants in sentencing outcomes);
• Evidence of direct discrimination at the federal level is more prominent than at the state level;
• Blacks are more likely to be disadvantaged in terms of sentence length at the federal level, whereas Latinos are more likely to be disadvantaged in terms of the decision to incarcerate;
• At the state level, both Latinos and blacks are far more likely to be disadvantaged in the decision to incarcerate or not, as opposed to the decision regarding sentence length.

If you look at the entire article, you'll see that blacks and latinos are discriminated against in EVERY single scenario.

-Believe it or not, in the 40's Blacks did commit crimes and (just like today) at greater rates than whites. It should be no surprise that some blacks were locked up. Just like today, most Black criminals preyed on Black victims.

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/table-43

• In 2011, 69.2 percent of all individuals arrested were white, 28.4 percent were black, and 2.4 percent were of other races.
• Of all juveniles (individuals under the age of 18) arrested in 2011 in the nation, 65.7 percent were white, 32.0 percent were black, and 2.3 percent were of other races.
• Nearly 70 percent (69.7) of all adults (18 years of age and over) arrested in 2011 were white, 27.9 percent were black, and 2.3 percent were of other races.
• White individuals were arrested more often for violent crimes than individuals of any other race, accounting for 59.4 percent of those arrests.
• The percentages of white adults and black adults arrested for murder were similar, with 48.2 percent being white, and 49.4 percent being black.
• Juveniles who were black accounted for 51.4 percent of juvenile arrests for violent crimes.
• Juveniles who were white accounted for 62.4 percent of juvenile arrests for property crimes.
• Of the juveniles arrested for driving under the influence, 91.6 percent were white.
• Juveniles who were white accounted for 72.9 percent of the persons under 18 who were arrested for arson in 2011.

Now, let's talk about this kid who you think might have committed this crime: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Stinney

Stinney, an African-American youth, was convicted of the first-degree murder of two pre-teen white girls: 11-year-old Betty June Binnicker, and 8-year-old Mary Emma Thames; however, no physical evidence existed in the case, and the sole evidence against Stinney was the circumstantial fact the girls had spoken with Stinney and his sister shortly before their murder, and the testimony of three white police officers, who testified at a trial which lasted barely two hours,that Stinney had confessed to the murders.

Hmm, no physical evidence existed in the case, and the only thing that could be proven was George and his sister spoke to the girls before they were murdered. Nothing fishy about that.

Following Stinney's arrest, Stinney's father was fired from his job. Stinney's parents and siblings were given the choice of leaving town or being lynched. The family was forced to flee, leaving George Stinney with no support during his 81-day confinement and trial.

Let's see, you fire the sole bread winner at home, and you force the family to leave under the threat of death. That's how you conduct a murder investigation.

Stinney's court-appointed defense counsel was a tax commissioner campaigning for election to local political office. Stinney's lawyer did not challenge the three police officers who testified Stinney confessed to the two murders, despite this being the only evidence presented by the prosecution. The police did not make written records of Stinney's purported confession, and at trial, Stinney denied confessing to the crime.

That makes sense. There was no confession, the defense didn't even try to defend him, and he even said he didn't confess to it. I guess his lawyer thought he could make it on his good looks alone, since he had absolutely no one in the entire city to protect him or his rights.

Other than the testimony of the three police officers, at trial, prosecutors called three inconsequential witnesses: the man who discovered the bodies of the two girls, and the two doctors who performed the post mortem. Stinney's counsel did not call any witnesses. Trial presentation lasted two-and-a-half hours. The jury took ten minutes to deliberate, after which they returned with a guilty verdict.

I'm surprised they took 10 minutes. I mean, this kid must have done it. All that evidence against him was staggering...

THanks for reposting the FBI stats, though I am not sure what your point was. Blacks are about 12% of the population and account for more than that amount of crime.

Even when you realize the "whites" category includes hispanics, it was interesting to note the only crime where Whites are overrepresented was DUI's which I thought interesting.

Yep oddly enough DUI's are the only crime listed where Blacks offenders match their percentage of the population. In most categories they are much higher than their population would suggest. The top one being "gambling" at 66%. What is funny is....(from my experience) driving drunk is a .. well a gamble, that you can get away with it.

Yet Blacks who apparently love to "roll the dice" for money are smarter than the average white guy when it comes to taking the gamble of driving drunk.

Now what would have been Cool Marv was if you had produced crime stats by race from the forties.

As for your info posted concerning the young man, I was going to refer to his as a "boy" but thats a no no. (little humor), I found Wiki to be not up to it's standards. Typically when they have a posting, it is full of citations and that page had very few. For instance,

the father lost his job.

The family was forced to flee.

No african Americans were present in the court room.

The details of the trial

Etc.

It's not that I disbelieve that these things could be true, it's just odd that this page fails to show hardly any incriminating evidence,.... not the details of his statements nor his sister, we don't hear of any witnesses who saw the children together.

We don't hear much of anything, it's almost as if the page is new and no one has proof read it or something, we don't even see the oft included phase "Citation needed" next to a detail.

Look Marv, I know it looks like I am trying to give my blessings to the execution of the kid, thats not it at all, even this late into the topic we really have no facts just claims, where are the court documents, the Newpaper clippings, the police reports.

My only position has been, these acts of depravity do take place and we have two possibilities.

-The kid was totally innocent And unfairly condemned.

-The kid was Guilty and hastily condemned.

-

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

So let me get this straight. Unless you have the trial evidence to hand, you're not going to accept anything that contradicts your preconceived view.

How hard is it to say that if what is on the wikipedia page is true, that the kid was the victim of a huge miscarriage of justice?

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

THanks for reposting the FBI stats, though I am not sure what your point was. Blacks are about 12% of the population and account for more than that amount of crime.

Even when you realize the "whites" category includes hispanics, it was interesting to note the only crime where Whites are overrepresented was DUI's which I thought interesting.

Yep oddly enough DUI's are the only crime listed where Blacks offenders match their percentage of the population. In most categories they are much higher than their population would suggest. The top one being "gambling" at 66%. What is funny is....(from my experience) driving drunk is a .. well a gamble, that you can get away with it.

Yet Blacks who apparently love to "roll the dice" for money are smarter than the average white guy when it comes to taking the gamble of driving drunk.

Now what would have been Cool Marv was if you had produced crime stats by race from the forties.

As for your info posted concerning the young man, I was going to refer to his as a "boy" but thats a no no. (little humor), I found Wiki to be not up to it's standards. Typically when they have a posting, it is full of citations and that page had very few. For instance,

the father lost his job.

The family was forced to flee.

No african Americans were present in the court room.

The details of the trial

Etc.

It's not that I disbelieve that these things could be true, it's just odd that this page fails to show hardly any incriminating evidence,.... not the details of his statements nor his sister, we don't hear of any witnesses who saw the children together.

We don't hear much of anything, it's almost as if the page is new and no one has proof read it or something, we don't even see the oft included phase "Citation needed" next to a detail.

Look Marv, I know it looks like I am trying to give my blessings to the execution of the kid, thats not it at all, even this late into the topic we really have no facts just claims, where are the court documents, the Newpaper clippings, the police reports.

My only position has been, these acts of depravity do take place and we have two possibilities.

-The kid was totally innocent And unfairly condemned.

-The kid was Guilty and hastily condemned.

-

You said blacks commit more crime that whites. The chart the FBI provides show's this isn't the case. As for the 1940's: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2831353/

Take a look at table 2. You assertions that blacks commit more crime would be correct. But, here the question. If the justice system has been proven time and time again that it's discrimination against minorites is standard practice, how many of those arrests are legit?

As for this child: http://www.thestate.com/2014/01/21/3218930/new-trial-sought-in-case-of-george.html

There are several links to this kid's execution. All of them contain the same data:

The police questioned him without a lawyer or his parents.

The 15 inch railroad spike alleged to have been used to kill the two girls had been deemed to heavy for the 90lbs George to even use, not to mention it wasn't used in the trial.

The bloody clothes were never used as well, no confession was ever recorded.

The father was fired from his job and the family had to leave in the middle of the night due to mobs forming and wanting to lynch Geroge and his family.

[Danno 1,228]

So let me get this straight. Unless you have the trial evidence to hand, you're not going to accept anything that contradicts your preconceived view.

How hard is it to say that if what is on the wikipedia page is true, that the kid was the victim of a huge miscarriage of justice?

Listen to yourself.

I am not the one with a "preconceived view", apparently you are. Where have I ever said the kid was guilty of anything?

Wiki is not a bathroom wall where people just write stuff, ....it is to be a "source" of trusted information. When large amounts of info are posted without any source, it becomes questionable.... you do know anyone can write anything they want on Wiki?

I have found wiki to be a good source of info for uncontested facts. When it gets into topics of a political/ social nature it is way biased.... and why wouldn't it be with any Tom ####### or Harry having access to the "edit" button.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Listen to yourself.

I am not the one with a "preconceived view", apparently you are. Where have I ever said the kid was guilty of anything?

Wiki is not a bathroom wall where people just write stuff, ....it is to be a "source" of trusted information. When large amounts of info are posted without any source, it becomes questionable.... you do know anyone can write anything they want on Wiki?

I have found wiki to be a good source of info for uncontested facts. When it gets into topics of a political/ social nature it is way biased.... and why wouldn't it be with any Tom ####### or Harry having access to the "edit" button.

Danno, this isn't the trial.

If what is claimed is the truth, then that would be a miscarriage of justice. End of.

Why can't/won't you admit that?

[Danno 1,228]

Danno, this isn't the trial.

If what is claimed is the truth, then that would be a miscarriage of justice. End of.

Why can't/won't you admit that?

By saying "This isn't the trial" it sounds like you are suggesting we don't need accurate info to conclude any part of the story.... we can proceed on a hunch.

There are all kinds of Justice.

Under our "system of justice" it would appear the boy was rushed to the chair.

But in 1940, how long did the average capital murder event take .......from trial to chamber?

One of the things we don't get to do in life is to apply a modern standard to a historical situation.

In other words, when people were publicly flogged as punishment, was that wrong?

You seem to be mad at me because I lack the emotional expressions of outrage.

That my friend is the fodder of mobs.

Behind every mob we see the same thing

-Emotion

-Rumor

-outrage

-disregard for rule of law.

-Quick solutions

-A villan

-A victim.

I on the other hand have asked for facts (of the case), for history (to determine how out of step with established legal norms of the time this case was).

Do you think this was the only minor in the country executed? Why are we talking about this one case and not others who might have also been a rush to judgment?

I ask questions because I don't know, I marvel that some don't have any questions.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

If you are so interested I imagine you could find more information elsewhere online that would answer your 'questions'. Have you looked?

Let's save time. You won't take the Wikipedia article at face value because you have an agenda.

I'm not asking for an emotional reaction, I'm asking you to take a rational position on the case assuming that the facts in the Wikipedia article are correct. If what is claimed is correct, what do you think about it and what do you think should be done about it?

Edited January 28, 2014 by Papa Lazarou

[Danno 1,228]

If you are so interested I imagine you could find more information elsewhere online that would answer your 'questions'. Have you looked?

Let's save time. You won't take the Wikipedia article at face value because you have an agenda.

I'm not asking for an emotional reaction, I'm asking you to take a rational position on the case assuming that the facts in the Wikipedia article are correct. If what is claimed is correct, what do you think about it and what do you think should be done about it?

Ok, so now you want me to play "What if"

alright, I'm a good sport, I'll play along.

If the mystery info placed in Wiki is factually correct, I would at minimum have a panel of Judges review the case and come forward with a finding of their inquiry to say either

A. Setting aside the question of guilt or innocence , the panel finds the case to have not been consistent with law, practices and proceedings at the time.

B. Looking at the record we can not find the evidence to justify a guilty verdict in accordance with laws and common practices at the time.

The Governor should perhaps officially clear his name.

Hypotheticals aside, I could easily come to this conclusion if I just had something to stand on other than-

The kid was Black

The kid was 14.

The year was 1940

Because it was very possible in 1940 a 14 year old kid, white or black could have done it.

Likewise it is very possible a 14 year old Black kid with no means was shanghaied.

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

Ok, so now you want me to play "What if"

alright, I'm a good sport, I'll play along.

If the mystery info placed in Wiki is factually correct, I would at minimum have a panel of Judges review the case and come forward with a finding of their inquiry to say either

A. Setting aside the question of guilt or innocence , the panel finds the case to have not been consistent with law, practices and proceedings at the time.

B. Looking at the record we can not find the evidence to justify a guilty verdict in accordance with laws and common practices at the time.

The Governor should perhaps officially clear his name.

Hypotheticals aside, I could easily come to this conclusion if I just had something to stand on other than-

The kid was Black

The kid was 14.

The year was 1940

Because it was very possible in 1940 a 14 year old kid, white or black could have done it.

Likewise it is very possible a 14 year old Black kid with no means was shanghaied.

Actually, if you look at any of the links that tell this story, there are a large amount of discrepancies in the way the case was handled, even for 1940's standards. Many people agree that George's rights(whatever ones he had at the time) were completely trampled. Why don't you draw a conclusion from what is known to be public record:

He was questioned by police without his parents or a lawyer

His family had to leave town or be lynched by the mobs formed to kill George and his family

The murder object was believed to be a 15 inch 20 lbs+ railroad spike. George was 5'1 and 90 lbs, it was proven well after his death that someone with that height and weight would struggle to lift something of that heft and size, if at all, let alone swing it with enough force to kill a person in one fell swoop.

George's confessions(plural because the cops gave two completely different accounts) were accosted by offering him ice cream. I'm not sure if that's a legal procedure even back in 1944.

The first cop said that one of the girls fell into a ditch. When George went to help, she attacked him, so he picked up that railroad spike(20lbs, 15 inches) and killed her in self defense. To stop the other girl from talking, he killed her as well. Then he drug the girls to the ditch to hide the bodies.

The second cop said he wanted to have sex with the one girl, she said no, so he killed her and raped her afterwards. Then he killed the other girl to silence her. This was admitted into the trial with the first confession. I'm positive there something wrong with that.

Initially, there was a report that the girls were sexually assaulted. But after his death, another looked proved otherwise. Fishy at the very least.

There are also reports that the actual killer, a white man family friend(or someone within the family) confessed to this crime on his deathbed.

All these things are consistent in each of the links. Draw a conclusion from that based off facts, not emotion.

[Danno 1,228]

Actually, if you look at any of the links that tell this story, there are a large amount of discrepancies in the way the case was handled, even for 1940's standards. Many people agree that George's rights(whatever ones he had at the time) were completely trampled. Why don't you draw a conclusion from what is known to be public record:

He was questioned by police without his parents or a lawyer

His family had to leave town or be lynched by the mobs formed to kill George and his family

The murder object was believed to be a 15 inch 20 lbs+ railroad spike. George was 5'1 and 90 lbs, it was proven well after his death that someone with that height and weight would struggle to lift something of that heft and size, if at all, let alone swing it with enough force to kill a person in one fell swoop.

George's confessions(plural because the cops gave two completely different accounts) were accosted by offering him ice cream. I'm not sure if that's a legal procedure even back in 1944.

The first cop said that one of the girls fell into a ditch. When George went to help, she attacked him, so he picked up that railroad spike(20lbs, 15 inches) and killed her in self defense. To stop the other girl from talking, he killed her as well. Then he drug the girls to the ditch to hide the bodies.

The second cop said he wanted to have sex with the one girl, she said no, so he killed her and raped her afterwards. Then he killed the other girl to silence her. This was admitted into the trial with the first confession. I'm positive there something wrong with that.

Initially, there was a report that the girls were sexually assaulted. But after his death, another looked proved otherwise. Fishy at the very least.

There are also reports that the actual killer, a white man family friend(or someone within the family) confessed to this crime on his deathbed.

All these things are consistent in each of the links. Draw a conclusion from that based off facts, not emotion.

Lets go at this from another way.

Lets suppose somehow it could be proved the kid did kill the girls, would that change your outrage?

Q: What does a 20 lb railroad spike look like and what purpose would it have?

I have seen a lot of these spikes, they are typically about 9" long. A rail tie is maybe 10" thick, can't imagine any purpose for a 15 inch spike.

Hold your hands 15" apart, imagine a spike is between them. Realizing a bag of sugar is 5 lbs, how could that spike be the weight of three bags of sugar at only 15" long?

It's a small detail, but I look for inconsistencies in statements.

Are there any railroad peeps in the house?

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

Lets go at this from another way.

Lets suppose somehow it could be proved the kid did kill the girls, would that change your outrage?

Q: What does a 20 lb railroad spike look like and what purpose would it have?

I have seen a lot of these spikes, they are typically about 9" long. A rail tie is maybe 10" thick, can't imagine any purpose for a 15 inch spike.

Hold your hands 15" apart, imagine a spike is between them. Realizing a bag of sugar is 5 lbs, how could that spike be the weight of three bags of sugar at only 15" long?

It's a small detail, but I look for inconsistencies in statements.

Are there any railroad peeps in the house?

http://books.google.com/books?id=lLsQAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA522&lpg=PA522&dq=15+inch+railroad+spike&source=bl&ots=lyzMs_mBWG&sig=ObkDBQW0UFJM8xwTcIyHdMKjfoE&hl=en&sa=X&ei=dh7pUvS_O6vLsAS2iIK4DA&ved=0CHYQ6AEwCg#v=onepage&q=15%20inch%20railroad%20spike&f=false

It shows they did exist back in the day.

If you're looking for inconsisencies, why don't you start with the big ones? You know, being questioned without a lawyer or parent? Being coercered with ice cream? What about the mulitple confessions? What about the defense not even cross examining the witnesses? You seem determined to prove his guilt throughout all the blantant rule breaking that was done before, during, and after his trial.