Good Faith / Bona Fide

[Boiler 45,402]

What are they supposed to be negotiating?

[DJ&L 83]

What are they supposed to be negotiating?

The terms of their divorce.

[Boiler 45,402]

They get divorced, they go their own ways, yet again what is there to negotiate?

[tuckin14 58]

I don't pretend that I am pleased by the situation. This isn't an appropriate forum for airing personal grievances, but I have many.

There is certain property and debts which could be considered marital, or individual. I would like these issues decided in my favor. She could choose to agree, or to fight.

I realize that some things cannot be done; for example, you cannot agree not to press criminal charges or testify in exchange for money. I would not tie an immigration matter to a divorce matter without the advice of counsel.

Alas, I've gotten precious few comments about the substance of the post. What I'm most interested it is verifying what I was told, specifically the consequences if I withdraw joint sponsorship. Are the consequences as serious as I believe?

[Boiler 45,402]

You can not withdraw your Sponsorship. Read the I 864 you voluntarily signed.

You may wish to talk to a divorce lawyer about what you consider your rights.

[tuckin14 58]

I know I cannot withdraw financial support. However, it is hard for me to imagine my wife staying in the USA unemployed so that she can compel me to support her at 125% of the federal poverty level.

The sponsorship I was speaking of was sponsorship of the joint petition, I-751.

[Boiler 45,402]

Write to them quoting the file number etc, say you are not longer living together as a married couple, end of issue.

[tuckin14 58]

Write to them quoting the file number etc, say you are not longer living together as a married couple, end of issue.

"End of Issue" - what do you mean? What will happen?

I made another call to USCIS today. They gave me different information. They said that if a divorce is pending and I withdraw the joint I-751, they would give her a continuance to file an individual I-751.

However I did some reading on "bona fide" marriages. She may fall short. The question seems to be, did the applicants intend to live as husband and wife? Which, despite our modern conventions, usually means living together. She:

a) Joined dating sites four months after we were married

b) Never made me the beneficiary of any of her insurance or financial accounts

c) Did not aggressively try to find a job in the USA after she got her green card

d) Began to make plans to move to the USA only after it appeared that I would be living abroad indefinitely

e) Purchased a condo titled in only her name

f) Listed me as "partner" on the residents' roster at the condo rather than "spouse."

g) Threw me out less than a month after moving in

h) Did not tell her parents we were married for about four months, and her coworkers for longer than that

i) I never met her family. Admittedly they live in Europe and don't speak English, but I offered to go more than once, including once just before Christmas saying "Let's go to Europe for New Year's, I can get us a couple of first class tickets."

These seem to fall far short of the usual standards for a bona fide marriage.

So based on the information I have now, the most likely scenario seems to be to allow the joint petition to proceed but to inform USCIS of the circumstances to ensure that they conduct an interview.

[Boiler 45,402]

"End of Issue" - what do you mean? What will happen?

I made another call to USCIS today. They gave me different information. They said that if a divorce is pending and I withdraw the joint I-751, they would give her a continuance to file an individual I-751.

So based on the information I have now, the most likely scenario seems to be to allow the joint petition to proceed but to inform USCIS of the circumstances to ensure that they conduct an interview.

There is not basis for a joint petition, for you to continue on that basis would be fraud, do you want to be charged with fraud?

It is the end of your involvement in the process.

USCIS did not give you different information, what she subsequently does or does not is her business not yours.

[tuckin14 58]

Reading other posts in this thread leads me to a new set of questions.

Aside: I have an Infopass appointment to discuss this, and am looking for a qualified attorney to ask these questions to.

Background to the new questions:

I don't remember what we filed for evidence. We mostly relied on the following explanation: "We have lived in different countries until now. Mrs. Tuck could not move to the USA until she got her teaching licenses, which she could not get until she got her green card. But we saw each other a lot and talked on the phone ever day." I don't remember exactly what we filed with the I-751, but I know the entire filing was only about 5 pages, including the two pages of the form itself.

Until now we've had no difficulty with immigration. No additional questions, nothing delayed more than expected. There were a couple of times they harrassed Mrs. Tuck at the border, saying "If you're a US resident you should reside in the USA" but that was about it.

I've seen other threads indicating that joint bank accounts and joint ownership or rental of property are key. We have neither.

Ideally I would like to preserve flexibility. My ideal would be for USCIS to come to us and say "We need more evidence" or "You have to come for an interview." I'd rather not be the one to just drop the hammer of withdrawing the joint petition.

Now for the questions:

1) Is it possible (I assume it is) that at some point we will just get a letter saying "Your 10-year green card is approved, please come pick it up?" If so, when is that likely, given that we filed in early October?

2) Is it possible that we will get a Request For Evidence? If so, when would we be likely to get that?

3) Given that we didn't provide much evidence, just excuses, is it more likely we will get an RFE?

4) Given that at the first possible moment we could have had joint bank accounts and property we didn't, is it likely USCIS will deny the petition if I haven't withdrawn it first?

[Darnell 8,478]

First, I never proposed lying to an immigration officer. The question regarding the divorce settlement pertained to not withdrawing the I-751. It is not certain there would even be an interview.

Second, I would appreciate answers to other elements of the post.

Thanks.

I-751 ? removal of conditions?

Basically, if you two signed it, then it's considered a joint petition. There is no support to withdraw, as you signed the I-864 ages past and that document remains in effect ..

However, there is a tickbox for 'divorced' on the same form. Since neither of you are divorced, then it made sense for (then) to not tick it.

She can apply for, and get, the ROC stuff without you, if'n you two are divorced.

However, it was filed AS IF you two were married. So, if there is an interview for the 10 year green card, marital status might come up.

Lots of mud, nothing clear - so really the best thing for her is to show up at the interview without you, with a divorce decree in hand and a new I-751 document without your signature, if'n she wants to present a lawful case to remove the conditions.

That's it, really.

[Boiler 45,402]

Now for the questions:

1) Is it possible (I assume it is) that at some point we will just get a letter saying "Your 10-year green card is approved, please come pick it up?" If so, when is that likely, given that we filed in early October?

2) Is it possible that we will get a Request For Evidence? If so, when would we be likely to get that?

3) Given that we didn't provide much evidence, just excuses, is it more likely we will get an RFE?

4) Given that at the first possible moment we could have had joint bank accounts and property we didn't, is it likely USCIS will deny the petition if I haven't withdrawn it first?

1. Yes

2. Possible, depends on when you case is reviewed.

3. I had an interview but did not have joint property/lease. Was not an issue.

4. No, well it was not an issue for me.

[tuckin14 58]

Due to recent developments I'd like to update this topic with the following question:

How would USCIS view this marriage - bona fide or not bona fide?

Married Jan 2011

Green card approved Nov 2011

Spouse remains in home country to work, while getting licensed in USA. Couple visit and call regularly, but there is no comingling of finances, and few social contacts as a couple (i.e. no affadavits).

Spouse gets licensed and gets job in USA in May 2013. Buys home in own name, moves and begins work August 2013. Immediately asks USC spouse to move out.

No children (obviously)

Joint taxes filed but of course foreign spouse has no USA income.

No attempt to comingle finances when foreign spouse moves to USA to work.

Foreign spouse has USA drivers license with same address as USC spouse

_________________________

Now, not sure how deeply USCIS would delve into the story but would it matter that:

Foreign spouse does not aggressively begin to secure USA licenses and look for a job in USA until December 2012, when USC spouse moves overseas to work. (USC spouse returned to USA in June 2013, just after foreign spouse accepted job.)

Foreign spouse asserted that they would not move to USA to same city as USC spouse was living/working in because they didn't like the city.

It seems to me that you could make a case that:

a) The relationship was bona fide, they saw each other a lot (25-30 times a year) and it just took time to get the state licenses (foreign spouse is a teacher) and by the time foreign spouse actually relocated the relationship ran out of gas; or

b) The marriage was never bona fide; foreign spouse never made an attempt to live with USC spouse (would not move to USA to USC spouse, moved to USA when USC spouse left) and when faced with actually living together, terminated the relationship.

Opinions?

[Boiler 45,402]

a)