Texas woman strangled newborn son, tossed him in trash, Where was Planned P-hood?

[Danno 1,228]

Got it. But Christians and Muslims still only account for 56% of the population, what do the Christian bible and the Quran have to do with the rights of the other 44%?

You are assuming that a country that is not Christian has not been advanced by Christianity.

For instance, India and Pakistan, the British empire brought (and left) certain institutions of Laws, governance and principles. Can anyone deny that women alone in India are better off because of that?

I would wager, those places which have abandoned those principles.... are also places you would not want to raise a daughter in even in 2014.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

The only quarrel I have with your reasoning on this issue is that you take the principle of "no one has the right to control my body" beyond the bounds of reason.

If ever there were an exception to that rule (and there are several) .... a women being pregnant would have to be it, because in this instance, it is not her body alone we are considering.

And of course the question is -How much consideration do we give the child within her?

Reasonable people have concluded, the farther along in development the child is, the greater the weight shifts from the Mothers desire .....over to the protection of the unborn.

Since the vast majority of pregnancies are not desperate cases, in fact, in almost all cases they are

>Voluntary

>Without any major health complication.

>Access to an early abortion was plentiful.

>Loving families stand ready to take the unwanted child.

>Healthcare, food and housing is guaranteed by the GOVT.

For most of us it is difficult to pin point the moment the child should have rights, (Even the Supreme court considered a womens right diminished in the third term)

yet interestingly enough we live in a country which afford the worst rapist or murderer every "presumption of innocence" so as not to wrongly condemn a person to incarceration unjustly,

I would hope we would be consistent and grant the unborn also the presumption of the right to live.

Especially in the vast number of cases where there is not compelling reason at all to kill the healthy unborn.

I think reasonable people can agree, there are some cases in which abortion might be the only humane option but these cases are few compared to those simply done for reasons of convenience.

To claim it is "my body my choice" is like me claiming I can do what I want my car, irregardless of the dog or child that might be inside of it.

Danno, your disagreement is not with me. I am against abortion. I mean it is something we discussed given Alla's traditional attitudes toward birth control...against pills and against condoms (which are for "dirty people") Surely you know the routine. Unless you married some strange Russian woman, and you know that FSU women on average have 3 abortions for every 2 live births...because to them "pull it out and point it somewhere else" is the preferred method of birth control. Or swallowing. But we decided that IF she got pregnant "Well then, we are going to have a baby" We are both against abortion so we will not have one.

I do not believe that the government can force others. BY LAW, to do what I do or believe what I believe. I also do not believe someone is better for taking away someone's rights because they are Gay, than they are for taking away their guns. To me...one in the same. I just think that one has to have a simple and solid line. The government cannot control what happens INSIDE my body. How is that so difficult to comprehend? That principal which applies to more than abortion, is the important thing. NOT how I feel personally about it.

[Danno 1,228]

Danno, your disagreement is not with me. I am against abortion. I mean it is something we discussed given Alla's traditional attitudes toward birth control...against pills and against condoms (which are for "dirty people") Surely you know the routine. Unless you married some strange Russian woman, and you know that FSU women on average have 3 abortions for every 2 live births...because to them "pull it out and point it somewhere else" is the preferred method of birth control. Or swallowing. But we decided that IF she got pregnant "Well then, we are going to have a baby" We are both against abortion so we will not have one.

I do not believe that the government can force others. BY LAW, to do what I do or believe what I believe. I also do not believe someone is better for taking away someone's rights because they are Gay, than they are for taking away their guns. To me...one in the same. I just think that one has to have a simple and solid line. The government cannot control what happens INSIDE my body. How is that so difficult to comprehend? That principal which applies to more than abortion, is the important thing. NOT how I feel personally about it.

I comprehend your VP perfectly, I just don't see it that way.

However, it would be interesting to observe such a system in practice and see where it might lead in time.

[decocker 7,198]

However, it would be interesting to observe such a system in practice and see where it might lead in time.

interesting indeed.

[Operator 1,927]

You are assuming that a country that is not Christian has not been advanced by Christianity.

For instance, India and Pakistan, the British empire brought (and left) certain institutions of Laws, governance and principles. Can anyone deny that women alone in India are better off because of that?

I would wager, those places which have abandoned those principles.... are also places you would not want to raise a daughter in even in 2014.

Actually, abortion reform in India and England took place in the late 60's and early 70's but because of the differences in social context between the two countries it led to different results. India has very liberal abortion laws which were almost unopposed when they came into effect. Abortion laws are a social issue not a religious issue.

Even though the laws in England used to be guided by Christian ideology it seems they have evolved as well.

I actually would not want to raise my daughter in a place that took away her right to choose her future,

Every situation is different and to say that there is only one way to view a situation is; in my opinion, wrong, and to use a bible as the rule book...not for me and mine.

[Danno 1,228]

Actually, abortion reform in India and England took place in the late 60's and early 70's but because of the differences in social context between the two countries it led to different results. India has very liberal abortion laws which were almost unopposed when they came into effect. Abortion laws are a social issue not a religious issue.

Even though the laws in England used to be guided by Christian ideology it seems they have evolved as well.

I actually would not want to raise my daughter in a place that took away her right to choose her future,

Every situation is different and to say that there is only one way to view a situation is; in my opinion, wrong, and to use a bible as the rule book...not for me and mine.

And yet you failed to name one place where the Bible had no effect, that you would want to live.

When raised in a Christian society, it is hard to appreciate the influence it has on us.

I've never been to India but I was told by someone from Bombay that as a child, there was no pity on anyone outside of your family or circle. A common phrase he heard growing up was "The tears of a stranger are but water."

And we see this sentiment when others around the world have a national emergency, it is only lately that other countries are shamed into helping others.

The ending of slavery was first seen in the Christian nations, led by Christian organizations. The least christian nations were often the last to ban it )as late as the 1960's)

Women were elevated beyond a sexual or servant role by the Jewish faith and Torah and on into the new testament. Biblical characters portray women in an equal status, that was unknown at the time. We find women as leaders, teachers, involved in business, in fact the most adored Saint is who? MARY.

When the disciples fled during the crucifixtion, who stayed? Women.

Who were the first to meet Christ on resurrection morning? Women.

At every incident recorded in the Bible we see women and there necessary role, elevated, respected.

You think that did not have an effect on the way the West consistently saw women as equal (though not the same) as men?

I think whats happened is some people are so hostile towards faith, they loose the ability to look at these things with a fair and rational mind.

[Operator 1,927]

I find your train of thought to be very difficult to follow, It's obvious that our views of abortion and society as a whole are very different.

[Danno 1,228]

I find your train of thought to be very difficult to follow, It's obvious that our views of abortion and society as a whole are very different.

I think it might be because

1. I suck as a writer

2. You are trying to imagine how this relates to Abortion, when I am simply speaking of Rights in general.

The fact that a woman can squash her off-spring and find supporters is proof, all good things (societies) must come to an end.

And as we depart from our moral foundation and into unchartered territory there is no limit what the word "freedom" will come to mean.

[Peikko 1,575]

I think it might be because

1. I suck as a writer

2. You are trying to imagine how this relates to Abortion, when I am simply speaking of Rights in general.

The fact that a woman can squash her off-spring and find supporters is proof, all good things (societies) must come to an end.

And as we depart from our moral foundation and into unchartered territory there is no limit what the word "freedom" will come to mean.

You have such a bizarre view of history Danno. Tell me, do you know anything about the pre christian era at all, or are you one of those that believe that the world began just over 2000 years ago? I have to ask because it's as if you do not know anything about pre christian societies, or societies where christianity never really took a foot hold. Even in countries where Christianity was the 'official' religion non christian ideas and codes of practice influenced those societies in all kinds of ways. It's as if you truly believe that unless you are touched in some way by christianity you have absolutely no moral compass and are incapable for functioning in anything but a selfish hedonistic fashion, and yet historical evidence is piled up that speaks to a completely different truth than that which you portray.

[Danno 1,228]

You have such a bizarre view of history Danno. Tell me, do you know anything about the pre christian era at all, or are you one of those that believe that the world began just over 2000 years ago? I have to ask because it's as if you do not know anything about pre christian societies, or societies where christianity never really took a foot hold. Even in countries where Christianity was the 'official' religion non christian ideas and codes of practice influenced those societies in all kinds of ways. It's as if you truly believe that unless you are touched in some way by christianity you have absolutely no moral compass and are incapable for functioning in anything but a selfish hedonistic fashion, and yet historical evidence is piled up that speaks to a completely different truth than that which you portray.

Don't think I lack appreciate for your commentary, however, it would seem you are dodging the point we were in discussion about..... please name for me the country without Christian influence you would wish to raise a daughter in?

[decocker 7,198]

I think it might be because

1. I suck as a writer

2. You are trying to imagine how this relates to Abortion, when I am simply speaking of Rights in general.

The fact that a woman can squash her off-spring and find supporters is proof, all good things (societies) must come to an end.

And as we depart from our moral foundation and into unchartered territory there is no limit what the word "freedom" will come to mean.

you do know that the bold function does not also translate nonsense.

[GandD 5,966]

I still don't understand what planned parent hood has to do with this woman throwing a new born in the trash.

[Danno 1,228]

I still don't understand what planned parent hood has to do with this woman throwing a new born in the trash.

Had they brought the customer in and and closed the deal sooner, we would not even know of this story.

They would have made money, the lady would not be facing 2 Million in bail, the tax payer would save a ton in legal fees.

The only thing that remains the same would have been the fate of the child.

[Peikko 1,575]

Danno, obviously there are people who do not wish to see your abstract. I get it.

No need to focus on TX since there ARE states that allow partial birth abortion. Your example is that it is OK to kill a child before birth but not Ok to do so afterwards.

Most people opposed to you are not "pro choice" they are "pro abortion". You say it is not OK to kill a child EVER, in the womb or out. I agree with you because I am against abortion. But I am PRO CHOICE, which means I do not believe the goverment should force my beliefs on others. As Darmell mentions, the woman can drop off the child at a fire station or hospital and they will care for the child no questions asked. There are obviously options and this woman was obviously mentally ill and unable to make those choices. If there is a failing it is in why did someone not monitor this woman and her baby for the safety of both? Is this the first indication she is sick? I doubt it.

As usual this is about stepping on individual liberty, Republicans do it as well as Dems.

As for abortion climics being for profit...you do not have a problem with profit in other areas of medicine, why in abortion? I suspect the profit margin for most abortion clinics is pretty low actually, be that as it may this IS a capitalist society which you seem to favor most of the time unless someone is making money doing something YOU don't like. Which makes you a Republican. The only difference between Republicans and the Dems is the list of rights they would deny.

As the man with no morals, why are you so keen to portray yourself as the man who would never permit his woman to have an abortion?

As to the sentence that most people apposed to you are 'pro abortion' - even if it were true, (and I have to say it's a most bizarre statement to make, it's as if you truly believe that there are people out there campaigning to ensure women who want to keep their babies abort them. Is that what you mean by that statement? If not, what exactly do you mean by it?) why does it matter to you, the man without morals?

[Peikko 1,575]

Had they brought the customer in and and closed the deal sooner, we would not even know of this story.

They would have made money, the lady would not be facing 2 Million in bail, the tax payer would save a ton in legal fees.

The only thing that remains the same would have been the fate of the child.

Planned parenthood is not a for profit organisation, it's not of any benefit to the organisation to ensure more women have abortions than want or need them. You really should get out more in the real world Danno and talk to real people who have real experiences rather than relying on eccentrics who fear the wrath of god and wish to 'save' sinners from their inevitable doom.