Fitting in in America

[Jon York 156]

It is also poor practice to cut corners with a spouse and rely upon knowing each other's idiosyncrasies. Because how you practice at home is how you will perform it outside the home. You've stated so yourself, and that is the OP's question - how to fit in. The way you eliminate all of the pitfalls in immigrant communication outside the home is to practice perfection inside the home.

Very wise words rlogan. I've been determined to help my fiance improve her English, by stopping her when she gets something wrong and getting her to say it right before continuing. At first she was taking offense at this. But she also knew being offended by it was wrong and to her credit she worked on that. I kept talking to her about it and explaining that I really wanted her to have better English by the time she gets here. And I explained that it will make life much, much easier and richer for her. She understood that and appreciates it. Although she would still get a little upset when I did it. But I just kept doing it anyway because I knew if we could get into the habit of it, it would become just a normal part of our routine and would no longer upset her. And that indeed has been the case.

Her problem isn't so much pride (although I've seen that in a lot of people) as much as it is impatience. She likes to talk fast and get to the point. She hated the interruptions because it meant she wouldn't get to the point as fast. In her mind it didn't matter how she said it as long as she got it all out. But I've really worked to impress upon her the importance of saying it right. And she's slowly coming around.

We've gotten into a good pattern now. When she speaks and gets something wrong that I can easily and quickly correct (like changing a verb tense), I'll interrupt her and do so. Now I can see her brain is saying, "I better get this right or he'll interrupt me." And I can see the little wheels in her mind trying to be more careful about saying things incorrectly. Some things I'll let slide because I know she'll need a longer explanation, but I'll keep those things in mind and come back to them later.

For the first several months of this there never seemed to be any improvement. But we kept at it. And now when she gets something wrong, many times she'll stop on her own and go back and correct herself! Which I think is awesome - and exactly what her brain should be doing. I figured if I just kept correcting her - without even necessarily always explaining the correction - that she would gradually come to know things were wrong because they just didn't sound right.

But I've also gotten so used to her English that I even miss half her mistakes now! She has a terrible problem with verb tenses, what's past is suddenly present and what's present is suddenly past. And past, present and future as well as singular and plural can all take place within the same sentence! But I realized that often I was just translating all this in my mind and getting what she means and forgetting to correct her.

You've helped me realize I need to stop doing that and teach her to say it right - rather than relying on myself to translate it in my mind. So many times though I just want to have a conversation and hear what she wants to say without a thousand interruptions during all those teachable moments. It's a balance. Sometimes you just have to let it slide so you can finish the conversation, and do the English lesson later. Sometimes I write down her mistakes so I can come back to them later.

I've started making times for us to do corrections and then we have other times where I'll let it slide for the sake of the conversation. I have a feeling (hope) this will be a little easier after she gets here than it is now over Skype. And hopefully a little easier when she's immersed in English every day. But I've found that setting aside times just for English lessons helps a lot. If I try to do it every time she talks it can start to feel like I'm just criticizing her. She's very good about it though - but I also try to be conscience of not doing it too much. If someone were constantly correcting me, I'd need a break every now and then too!

Edited January 17, 2014 by Jon York

[dwinge 34]

Been a teacher all of my life so this is something I had a lot of experience with. She has to adopt an attitude that you are a team against the rest of the world. The Americano can never correct in a condescending way. He is a team-mate wanting her to score big in the game.

Dwinge - it was perfectly clear you were discussing the different pronunciation of "I" across cultures. It is exactly the same with us, and all Asian-Americano couples.

The story you gave was one where you did not understand each other so you are just being defensive, and it is exactly the attitude porterhouse and I are now discussing. I have seen this for decades as a teacher. The pride exhibited in the attitude of "nobody is going to tell me anything".

Despite the fact you just gave an example where you and your husband did not understand each other, you got really defensive with anyone explaining to you a method for avoiding having to say things three times and raise your voices as in your example. It is also poor practice to cut corners with a spouse and rely upon knowing each other's idiosyncrasies. Because how you practice at home is how you will perform it outside the home. You've stated so yourself, and that is the OP's question - how to fit in. The way you eliminate all of the pitfalls in immigrant communication outside the home is to practice perfection inside the home.

I get what you are saying. I am, however, surprised that you would speak to others (especially over the internet) using directives (eg. you "should") and absolutes instead of giving suggestions (eg. "why don't you try this"). Your manner of speech is annoying, to be very honest. Put another way, I would not have given you a defensive response to your earlier post.

[Jon York 156]

I get what you are saying. I am, however, surprised that you would speak to others (especially over the internet) using directives (eg. you "should") and absolutes instead of giving suggestions (eg. "why don't you try this"). Your manner of speech is annoying, to be very honest. Put another way, I would not have given you a defensive response to your earlier post.

Saying "you should" is one way a person who is more knowledgeable of a subject than the person he's talking to gives a suggestion. I'm surprised that you would be so offended by it! All of his suggestions were very good actually. A wise person should listen to him!

[kitthekat 1,317]

Saying "you should" is one way a person who is more knowledgeable of a subject than the person he's talking to gives a suggestion. I'm surprised that you would be so offended by it! All of his suggestions were very good actually. A wise person should listen to him!

If you have trouble understanding your fiancee, then sure, you should go right ahead to find better ways of communicating. If you found rlogan's advice useful, more power to you. I feel like his suggestions are more appropriate for those who don't speak English as a first language. I also think that if a couple frequently misunderstands each other to the point of frustration, then it is the relationship that needs work first and foremost, and not the accent.

I don't think Dwinge's example showed any serious lack of communication between her and her hsuband. I don't think her use of uppercase was indicative of tension or frustration. If anything, it'll be something they laugh about for years to come. To be told that she "should" learn to change how she speaks, is going a little overboard. Accents are part of our identity, our roots, that remind us of where we came from and who we are. If America is really such a melting pot of immigrants, then the diversity in accents should be celebrated.

Edited January 18, 2014 by kitthekat

[kitthekat 1,317]

I also think that as a married couple, it is important to uphold a certain level of dignity and respect for each other. A spouse may not be the most appropriate teacher so as not to unintentionally demean or hurt the feelings of their partner. Perhaps if your partner would benefit from a higher level of proficiency in the English language, it might be more harmonious to send her for classes where the teacher is a neutral third party.

[NikLR 13,227]

I think Cary has given the best advice to be honest. One obviously will want to connect with their roots, it makes us feel like we belong somewhere when we feel alone, but at the same time one needs to connect to where they are. I can tell you even as a Canadian I have some trouble in the USA, so I cannot imagine how hard it would be for someone who is from a country very different. What feels rude to one person, may not feel rude to another, depending on the society and culture.

For the OP, you will need to be as understanding as possible; to know that there will be moments of homesickness and when she will no longer want to be in the USA. In those moments it is not because she doesn't love you or want to be in the relationship. It's just that life feels overwhelmingly hard and so different that sometimes you just want what is familiar to recharge your batteries. It's rather like wanting a warm cup of cocoa at the end of a long day outside in winter, while snuggled up in PJ's, a blanket with good movie or book. Someone else may want a nice long hot shower. Wherever and whatever you feel you need to decompress and relax. Your home needs to be that place for your foreign spouse. They need to be able to decorate it and eat foods and feel like they belong somewhere, when the outside world feels a bit much. Some people really thrive on the pressure for sure, but everyone needs to relax at some point in time.

A word to the wise from an emotional person: Don't ever demean the other person's feelings. That's how they feel. If they're scared they won't "fit in" then they're scared. Acknowledge that and do whatever you can, like you have by making this post, to help them feel like they're fitting in, like where they are is now their home. If that means finding the best markets or restaurants, or maybe some shops they can buy new things to make home feel like home then go ahead and search out those places beforehand.

The spouse also needs to understand the USC also has fears. Fears that you won't love them enough or fears it won't work out or fears that you will hate life here and want to go home forever. They may fear that the love that holds you together isn't strong enough to overcome, despite all you just went through, and in those fears they may not react as well as they should to what you say and do. So a little forgiveness on both sides is in order.

Communication is the key. Be proactive and discuss it. Be flexible enough to adjust when things do not go as planned as well.

Edited January 18, 2014 by NLR

[Tingbudong 12]

LOL, I used to date a girl. from the Phillz, before meeting my current fiancee. We joked a lot about her pronunciation… and mine. She put the accent on the second syllable of EVERY word, whether it was correct or not. It is incredibly hard to understand a word even with so simple a change! But after awhile I could do it too and she would laugh pretty hard to hear me say things exactly how she would say it and she'd immediately hear how it was off and why I was confused. Her son was hilarious when he would imitate her and say "MOM, you've been here as long as I have you should be speaking better English by now.. When we'd both get on her case, she'd pout and say ganging up is not fair.. but then she'd laugh.

We also found that Americans really do squash a lot of words together.. Like when I asked her… "Donchyagot Teathome?" "Whaaaa???" "Baby, donnncha… got… teeeyatoam?" Don't you have tea at your home… OOOHHHHH!!!

There are a bunch of unofficial smash words in common usage that we just don't think of when we say them… You really do have to annunciate carefully when you are helping your SO with language.

Im bad about using Chinglish back to my Chinese fiancee because I know she will understand me and we can continue our conversation without any bumps, but I have to stop myself when I find Im parroting her smacked up grammatical style.. It may make our current conversation more fluid but she will never improve if I do it and in fact I find myself accidentally using Chinglish with others if Im not careful.

Now I find my English become a few not good!!

Edited January 29, 2014 by Tingbudong

[Caryh 5,206]

Now I find my English become a few not good!!

I can relate