Language at home? Which one?

[Lija 0]

Hmmmmmm. . . another circumstance that rears its controversial head with our immigrant/American relationships, in addition to the many that face any new marriage, is that of language.

I noted this subject was addressed in a few places throughout the Forum, but I’m not altogether sure it was soundly discussed. Has anyone ever tried to carry on a marital dispute in Spanish? Or German? Not as easy as you think! For the most part, most of us are probably lucky in this department; our partner in the other country either speaks English as a cultural norm (i.e., England, Australia, Ireland, Canada, etc., etc.) or, they are from a country which has stressed the English Language in their education system (Germany, for example) or, for a multitude of other reasons, our chosen mate is already fluent in English.

But what of those not fluent in English? I mean, I am fluent obviously, but my wonderful wife is not. I wrote of this once in the forum and suggestions were made “for her to begin studying English while she was awaiting the much coveted K-1 visa.” I suggested this to my betrothed in Bogotá at the time, but she informed me that in Colombia, English lessons are terribly expensive and the nearest location of an English school was quite far from where she lived, through a rather unsavory area.

Now, let’s say that actual fluency in any given language is from 0 to 100 percent; the 100 per cent being one who has a college degree and speaks his/her language flawlessly; the 0 percent being one doesn’t know a single word of the language (that would be me with say. . . Urdu or Farsi). In Spanish, I would rate myself perhaps in the realm of 85 to 90 percent, so my wife and I can communicate very well. I have heard American couples say things like, “Oh! As her American husband, you can speak English with her all the time and she will learn quickly!” WRONG! Thank you for playing, doesn’t work that way. Whether folks realize it or not, who speaks which language doesn’t matter one bit; there are still the common marital problems to deal with and communicating to be. . . communicated. Like any marriage. So, we speak primarily Spanish in our home. However, we select certain times when I will speak only English, but I. . speak. . slowly. . and. . clearly. (Please don’t shout at them. . . they’re not hard of hearing, they simply cannot understand). I also enrolled her in English classes here, which she is doing very well at. She has learned by leaps and bounds, but. . . she still prefers to speak Spanish. My Spanish has improved immensely but that does her ill will with her English.

So who learns which language first? How does one adequately communicate all those differences that arise frequently in a marriage? Relationships have unraveled and ended, marriages have been destroyed and major wars started. . . all because of “malententidos”—misunderstandings. Because statements were misinterpreted. Lord knows, there are a substantial amount of problems even among couples speaking the same language fluently, from the same country, from the same hometown. But we, who have chosen a lifelong mate way outside our known realm, the other side of the world, with another language. THAT gets interesting.

My first observation is, that if both you and your selected partner are able only to communicate in a “Me Tarzan, you Jane”, sort of mode, you are in for a VERY interesting few years ahead of you, I don’t care HOW well suited you are for one another. Secondly, assuming that at least ONE of you is fluent in the other’s language, USE that language until you are more or less accustomed to one another’s presence in your life. By all means, have your chosen one begin attending English classes ASAP, and use English most of the time with them at home, even if they only pick up on 20 or 30 per cent of what you are saying; this way, they will begin to learn the “rhythm” of English. But for the meantime, conduct those more vital affairs of a new marriage in the common language; German, Spanish, French, Russian, Yiddish, whatever.

And above all, patience. . . patience. . . PATIENCE!!

Lija

[Alex+R 0]

(Please don’t shout at them. . . they’re not hard of hearing, they simply cannot understand).

Who would do that to someone they were married to? That's insane.

We speak English together 90% of the time. R doesn't really like it when I speak Portuguese because he doesn't like my accent (which is not that bad, I swear).

The language thing can be hard when one person is angry, though, I agree. I can see that in a foreign language you lose a lot of your ability to speak or write it when you are angry or trying to make a point.

[Laveau 67]

I didn't read all of the OP's post (sorry) but this is an excellent topic. My father is a native Spanish speaker and regretably he did not speak Spanish to me nor my bros. My fiance is Romanian and I we have discussed him speaking Romanian to our children. He debated: English first. I disagree. I explained to him what a "diservice" he would be doing our children with that attitude. Anyway, I think this thread has nothing to do with children. (Sorry, I'm too drunk to read the original post). But non-Eng speaking parents should make it a point to speak to any children or future children in their native togue. I sure wish my father had.

S

[anya-D 8]

We use English in our household... I feel more comfortable that way too - when Bram was in Thailand for 4 months he picks up alot of Thai and can understand a lot of things i said.. but now it's almost gone becasue i've never speak Thai with him (he picked it up while their all by himself... i can't speak Thai to a blond hair person it just feel weird lol ) But when it came to argument it's always difficult for me becasue i cold not find words fast enough for speak fast enough and it made me even angrier and more frustrated - Bram is quickly understand this (he wasnt really understand it before becasuse he sometime though i dont have any problem with english and think i know every words ) But now if i get frustrated I just tell him that I'd need sometime to think of words and will explain to him when i calm down a bit orelse it will not go anywhere. It's a lot more difficult to speak other language when i'm angry

Anyway - I think i'll try to speak Thai to my children and teach them about my culture and might even get them to live inThailand for a while too. I'm sure it'll benefit them one way or another to know more than one language... eventhough Thai is used by only in Thailand

[rob&ana 0]

This is a wonderful topic... And definitely a must read for us couples with different languages.

I am lucky (or Rob is) that I am fluent in English, so we understand each other very well when discussing. Now... when I get mad over something, that's another story.... And usually I do what Anya is doing. I just tell him that I need time to gather my thoughts and that I will talk to him later. This works wondeful, because, first of all, after thinking about it (in spanish) and trying to find a good way to explain it to him (in english) I am usually not red-angry anymore and secondly, I can make my point clearly and in a more intelligent way than if I were mad and screaming at him (not that I would anyways).

Regarding Lachatte's point, it's something I've always given a lot of thought. I definitely want to pass some of my culture to my children. I want them to know my backgroung, learn about my customs, and OH-SO-DEFINITELY learn the language. And not only out of the selfishness of this-are-my-children-see-them-speak-spanish, but I realize that being bilingual is a HUGE advance career wise as it has been for me so far.

To the original OP, it is awesome that you are so fluent in spanish, that is definitely helping your wife adjust, because considering all things one leaves behind, being able to communicate in your mother tongue is definitely a plus (specially if you moved to a place where there arent many spanish speaking people - like Pittsburgh in my case). BUT, definitely stress the learning the language issue. When in Rome do as the Romans. We immigrants took a decision to move to the US (or wherever in the world), that decision definitely involve getting adjusted to the new environment, and that will never be possible if you cant communicate with the people surrounding us. So kudos to your wife for trying to learn and to you for your patience...

Ana

[Jenn! 918]

We try to speak English as much as we can at home. But if an argument comes up, we switch to Italian immediately (which happens to be neither of our first languages). It would be pretty useless for us to argue in our first language, since I don't understand Arabic. It sounds a lot prettier in Italian anyway.

Edited December 27, 2006 by jenn3539

[rob&ana 0]

We try to speak English as much as we can at home. But if an argument comes up, we switch to Italian immediately (which happens to be neither of our first languages). It would be pretty useless for us to argue in our first language, since I don't understand Arabic. It sounds a lot prettier in Italian anyway.

I can just imagine fights in Italian!!!

When I was in Italy, I kept thinking everyone was really excited about something...

But then again, if I didnt understand Spanish... I'd think the same thing...

I was at pizzeria, and there was a large family eating next to us. They were talking so much and being kinda loud, I was a tad jet-lagged, and had worked all day (translate: I had a mushy brain), and I could only think of how Rob felt when he went to visit me, and met my family at a gathering ... let's just put it this way... I felt sorry for him...

[Ladylethal 12]

My situation is trickier. I am brazilian and am fluent in Portuguese and English. Luis is puertorican and he's fluent in Spanish and English. We're living in Puerto Rico so the language here is Spanish. I'm the one who has to learn it but since I have a hard time understand what's being sad Luis talks in English to me, which is not helping my learning by one bit.

I try to speak Spanish and of course it comes off weak and wrong but I'm learning so in the end we end up in a messy convo where I use Portuguese words 'cus I didn't know it was different in Spanish, ask stuff in English to be able to say them in Spanish, and Luis answers stuff half in English half in Spanish. It's a mess, really.

[rob&ana 0]

My situation is trickier. I am brazilian and am fluent in Portuguese and English. Luis is puertorican and he's fluent in Spanish and English. We're living in Puerto Rico so the language here is Spanish. I'm the one who has to learn it but since I have a hard time understand what's being sad Luis talks in English to me, which is not helping my learning by one bit.

I try to speak Spanish and of course it comes off weak and wrong but I'm learning so in the end we end up in a messy convo where I use Portuguese words 'cus I didn't know it was different in Spanish, ask stuff in English to be able to say them in Spanish, and Luis answers stuff half in English half in Spanish. It's a mess, really.

It does seem like a mess...

But (and I know many Brazilians here have said otherwise) Portuguese from Brazil is pretty similar to Spanish, so it'd be easier for you to catch on the Spanish... Good luck... and again... the key word is patience...

[sophyie 0]

My husband and I are fluent in both languages, German and English- and usually it ends with us talking "denglish" (we mix, even within one sentence).

I'm happy to have both languages- especially in an argument or an important discussion.

[Ladylethal 12]

My situation is trickier. I am brazilian and am fluent in Portuguese and English. Luis is puertorican and he's fluent in Spanish and English. We're living in Puerto Rico so the language here is Spanish. I'm the one who has to learn it but since I have a hard time understand what's being sad Luis talks in English to me, which is not helping my learning by one bit.

I try to speak Spanish and of course it comes off weak and wrong but I'm learning so in the end we end up in a messy convo where I use Portuguese words 'cus I didn't know it was different in Spanish, ask stuff in English to be able to say them in Spanish, and Luis answers stuff half in English half in Spanish. It's a mess, really.

It does seem like a mess...

But (and I know many Brazilians here have said otherwise) Portuguese from Brazil is pretty similar to Spanish, so it'd be easier for you to catch on the Spanish... Good luck... and again... the key word is patience...

Well, here's the thing, puertoricans have a specially difficult accent and A LOT of slangs. It's too hard to catch what they're saying. It will take me longer than I thought, I believe, to feel comfortable in puertorican spanish.

[ardilla 0]

We speak Spanish at home. OK, after living here together in the US a few years, it's more like Spanglish.

[substance 0]

My wife was born in Turkey, her parents immigrated to the US when she was little and they spoke Turkish at home. So both of them are her mother language. I was also born in Turkey, I went to the US for school at very young age. So both English and Turkish are my mother tongues as well(well with a very slight accent for english). So we are both 100% with both languages. We speak Turkish when with the family(because they are all Turkish) and we speak English when with friends. When we are alone, we speak Turkish in daily chat, English when we argue:) I never curse in English(not at her, I am talking about curse upon things like losing your wallet) on the other hand she never curse in Turkish. She says she doesnt know any swear. I used to speak German(used to be fluent) and now trying to get it back, I am trying to teach her some words and phrases so we can have private conversations when with the family lol but actually we kinda created our own language, some certain words for certain things that no one else could understand. For example when we needed to head to bed and such situations;)

[MHandMB 0]

This is a good topic!

Amed and I met in Paris, where he was living at the time. His primary language is Arabic. At this point, he spoke very little English but almost perfect French. My French was so-so, so we always spoke in French. As time went on, my French really improved dramatically. Once I moved there, we practiced his English a lot, and he would try to speak on the phone to my family in English.

Once he got to the U.S., his English got sooo much better really quickly, but we still speak in French at home 85% of the time. That's always going to be the primary language in our house, I think. I'm the one who gets frustrated more, because there are certain words (like "screw" and "bolt") that I don't know in French and I have to try to explain to him what it is. When we're arguing, I have to try to articulate my position in another language, and sometimes, when emotions are high, that's difficult. He's been speaking French since he was a little boy, so it comes very naturally to him. On the other hand, I know almost no Arabic, which really bothers me because it makes it difficult to communicate with his family.

If we have kids, we're going to teach them English, French, and Arabic from the get-go.

[rob&ana 0]

My situation is trickier. I am brazilian and am fluent in Portuguese and English. Luis is puertorican and he's fluent in Spanish and English. We're living in Puerto Rico so the language here is Spanish. I'm the one who has to learn it but since I have a hard time understand what's being sad Luis talks in English to me, which is not helping my learning by one bit.

I try to speak Spanish and of course it comes off weak and wrong but I'm learning so in the end we end up in a messy convo where I use Portuguese words 'cus I didn't know it was different in Spanish, ask stuff in English to be able to say them in Spanish, and Luis answers stuff half in English half in Spanish. It's a mess, really.

It does seem like a mess...

But (and I know many Brazilians here have said otherwise) Portuguese from Brazil is pretty similar to Spanish, so it'd be easier for you to catch on the Spanish... Good luck... and again... the key word is patience...

Well, here's the thing, puertoricans have a specially difficult accent and A LOT of slangs. It's too hard to catch what they're saying. It will take me longer than I thought, I believe, to feel comfortable in puertorican spanish.

I was going to mention this when I replied to your previous post. But I thought it might be politically incorrect..

Even spanish speaking people have trouble sometimes understanding the Puertorrican spanish...

And it does have to do a lot with the accent, and the fact that they use a lot of americanized words?? I totally hear ya...

But hang in there... soon you'll be talking purro too... they are very warm people though...