Shumlin lifts veil on heroin abuse in Vermont

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Why do you insist on thinking in such simplistic terms. Do you actually think that anyone here believes there is one single cause of criminal behaviour? Ridiculous.

You mean because I ask for people to provide evidence of what they state? Pretty simplistic, yes. I insist.

I will be happy if they provide links to the one reason they mention over and over and over and over. I am not holding my breath. Do you think anyone will post evidence that race is the cause for crime in their state?

But I will have to admit some satisfaction in being the only member able to generate 7 pages of discussion without even being present for most of it.

I also love when it is pointed out over and over and over that guns are not the reason for crime...or lack thereof. Cool

Edited January 25, 2014 by Gary and Alla

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Guns are not the cause of crime, they are however part of the picture.

Race is not the cause of crime, however it is a contributing factor, as is the level of poverty in an area, as is population density, socioeconomics, the unemployment rate etc. etc. Yada yada.

I am not sure why I point this out as it should be self evident and obvious. Key word - should. Apparently for you it is not. Admit the basics and a reasonable conversation is possible, keep stroking your gun and well... the responses you get will be equal to your level of participation. In other words, repeat yourself ad infinitum and deliberately misinterpret what others say. You might as well just have a conversation with yourself.

PS. Can you say 'i' a few more times Gary? There's just not enough ego on display for a Saturday :-P

Edited January 25, 2014 by Papa Lazarou

[spookyturtle 9,466]

I disagree with you and Mr. Big Dog. I do not think race is responsible for crime. But if you guys want to link to facts and prove that minorities are the problem and the reason you have more crime than Vermont...go ahead.

Also you may want to link to how gun control reduces minority population

Links please

Then explain how gun laws would change any of the above

Then explain your plan to reduce crime caused by minoities

Links please

Then explain how gun laws would change any of the above

Then explain your plan to reduce crime caused by minoities

You must be confusing me with someone else. I have never posted about gun control reducing minority population or gun control at all. It's well known here that I am am pro gun.

Here's a few links for you. This one shows the percentages of arrests for various crimes and has a breakdown in black and white. Blacks make up about 13% of the US population according to the US Census Bureau. You can see which percentages of which crimes are committed by race on this chart.

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/table-43

And if you want to while a way the hours, check out the Bureau of Justice Statistics site:

http://www.bjs.gov/

And the FBI here:

http://ojjdp.gov/ojstatbb/ezashr/asp/off_selection.asp

But you'll have to do some work yourself on these links. And a simple Google search of prison inmates by race will yield a plethora of results.

Your state lacks the minorities and the socioeconomic conditions that are more prevalent in other states. There are other states with liberal gun laws like Vermont and they have a higher crime rate, so the possibility of everyone being armed isn't the sole reason for Vermont's crime rate as you constantly claim. Demographics and social and economic conditions play a major role.

But three's no point in discussing it with you. You have a larger group that falls for the bait.

[spookyturtle 9,466]

And I apologize to anyone who may be offended by this post. My point isn't to single out blacks and minorities as criminals. There is much more to the problem than what the statistics show.

[lostinblue 1,989]

And I apologize to anyone who may be offended by this post. My point isn't to single out blacks and minorities as criminals. There is much more to the problem than what the statistics show.

I will use that next time I post..".My point isn't to single out blacks and minorities as criminals. There is much more to the problem than what the statistics show."

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

I will use that next time I post..".My point isn't to single out blacks and minorities as criminals. There is much more to the problem than what the statistics show."

Sorry, doesn't work when you're trying to be racist.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

Sorry, doesn't work when you're trying to be racist.

There is a way that people can interact, without being racist. You can be aware of cultural differences, and yet, still treat people as individuals. I find that discussing cultural differences with folks I encounter encourages understanding and shows an interest in the person. Accepting always gets a better response, than reflexively being dismissive of the differences.

Edited January 25, 2014 by The Postmaster

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

And I apologize to anyone who may be offended by this post. My point isn't to single out blacks and minorities as criminals. There is much more to the problem than what the statistics show.

But the police are unfair to blacks...how did this become about blacks? I thught it was about minorities.

At any rate, you have provided no link to blacks/minorities/crime. Only that they get arrested more than whites.

Blacks/minorities in Vermont can carry concealed weapons also.

You specifically stated that Vermont has low crime because it is "lily white" Please provide evidence of that.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Sorry, doesn't work when you're trying to be racist.

Agreed. It is obviously about race control.

People blaming the issues of their communities on blacks. I always wonder "what else o they blame on blacks?" Mayb e their low grades in school? A failed career? Do they think they have been denied what is theirs by blacks? Is it those people "sucking the government teat" that cause all their problems? Are they just really unhappy people living in an unhappy place?

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

There is a way that people can interact, without being racist. You can be aware of cultural differences, and yet, still treat people as individuals. I find that discussing cultural differences with folks I encounter encourages understanding and shows an interest in the person. Accepting always gets a better response, than reflexively being dismissive of the differences.

Do you agree with Mr. Big Dog and Spooky that blacks are the cause of crime? That Vermont is safe because we have so few blacks?

And I apologize to anyone who may be offended by this post. My point isn't to single out blacks and minorities as criminals. There is much more to the problem than what the statistics show.

What, specifically. Links please

There is a way that people can interact, without being racist. You can be aware of cultural differences, and yet, still treat people as individuals. I find that discussing cultural differences with folks I encounter encourages understanding and shows an interest in the person. Accepting always gets a better response, than reflexively being dismissive of the differences.

specifics please. Links.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

Do you agree with Mr. Big Dog and Spooky that blacks are the cause of crime?

Probatur quod nondum habetur.

[spookyturtle 9,466]

But the police are unfair to blacks...how did this become about blacks? I thught it was about minorities.

At any rate, you have provided no link to blacks/minorities/crime. Only that they get arrested more than whites.

Blacks/minorities in Vermont can carry concealed weapons also.

You specifically stated that Vermont has low crime because it is "lily white" Please provide evidence of that.

I provided links which I'm sure you already knew about and you know all about the statistics contained therein. If you think that gun ownership is the only factor in the crime rate, so be it. Of course that doesn't explain why other states with gun laws like Vermont's have higher crime rates either. I didn't use the term lily white, you did. The demographics of each state are a fact.

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

There is a way that people can interact, without being racist. You can be aware of cultural differences, and yet, still treat people as individuals. I find that discussing cultural differences with folks I encounter encourages understanding and shows an interest in the person. Accepting always gets a better response, than reflexively being dismissive of the differences.

I am aware of this. You, Spooky, and a few others here, I don't have an issue talking about it in a respectful manner. But when it's constantly highlighted a black person does something, we have to delve into this conversation about what's wrong with the black community. Even when it's not about black people, someone makes it into that.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

I am aware of this. You, Spooky, and a few others here, I don't have an issue talking about it in a respectful manner. But when it's constantly highlighted a black person does something, we have to delve into this conversation about what's wrong with the black community. Even when it's not about black people, someone makes it into that.

Too bad. It makes having intelligent discussions impossible. Of course, this is a self-help immigration site, not an critical thinking educational site, yet the mods fail to set a reasonable standard for discussing either. It is what it is.

[spookyturtle 9,466]

I am aware of this. You, Spooky, and a few others here, I don't have an issue talking about it in a respectful manner. But when it's constantly highlighted a black person does something, we have to delve into this conversation about what's wrong with the black community. Even when it's not about black people, someone makes it into that.

I'm not trying to say that all blacks, Hispanic's etc are criminals, and I think that most everyone here knows that. It is unfortunate that the statistics show that a higher percentage of crimes are committed by these minority groups, but as I've said time and again, this isn't just about the color of one's skin as many here like to make it out to be. The problem is much deeper and the solutions aren't simple. We've had 50 + years of attempted solutions that still aren't working.