"internal" Registration

[captainofiron 2]

Here is the problem.

My wife's parents did not own a house, they were just renting. So apparently they were registered internally with some lady in another city.

They have since bought an apartment and both have changed their registration to that address.

BUT my wife in that period got married to me and was not in the country during that time. Her parents are now wanting her to go back and change her registration to their new address because they are paying that lady to use her address and dont want to pay anymore.

In my mind its all sorts of fuzzy/messed up. I dont get why she must be registered somewhere over there if she doesnt even live in the country.

Anybody have similar experiences?

[SMR 368]

My first piece of advice on the subject is that you need to take this seriously. As an American, it's easy to see the Russian system as a non-sequitur since we don't have anything analogous (at least not for citizens). You really need to dig into what the options are and what the consequences will be. In particular, if you ever decide you want to live in Russia, you would want to make sure that this is all in order.

That said, you do have options. It is possible for a Russian to register at the consulate as living abroad. This effectively removes the requirement to be registered in Russia. However, this can make returning more difficult as you become a sort of transient if you can't purchase an apartment for yourself. Additionally, if you wanted to own property in Russia, register potential children, or otherwise use government services in Russia, not being registered in Russia would be a barrier. Also, it would become more difficult for your wife to register you as a foreigner when you come to visit (of course, her parents could likely register you with just as much ease).

If you don't think that you will want to live in Russia in the future, moving her registration to the consulate might be a good idea. It will make things easier, but will close some doors (or at least make those doors more difficult to open in the future). I'm not an expert on the process and haven't done it myself, so it would behoove you to find someone who has or at least make sure you understand all of the consequences. Depending on the relationship with her parents, you may have to consider how they will view things.

Good luck.

[captainofiron 2]

My first piece of advice on the subject is that you need to take this seriously. As an American, it's easy to see the Russian system as a non-sequitur since we don't have anything analogous (at least not for citizens). You really need to dig into what the options are and what the consequences will be. In particular, if you ever decide you want to live in Russia, you would want to make sure that this is all in order.

That said, you do have options. It is possible for a Russian to register at the consulate as living abroad. This effectively removes the requirement to be registered in Russia. However, this can make returning more difficult as you become a sort of transient if you can't purchase an apartment for yourself. Additionally, if you wanted to own property in Russia, register potential children, or otherwise use government services in Russia, not being registered in Russia would be a barrier. Also, it would become more difficult for your wife to register you as a foreigner when you come to visit (of course, her parents could likely register you with just as much ease).

If you don't think that you will want to live in Russia in the future, moving her registration to the consulate might be a good idea. It will make things easier, but will close some doors (or at least make those doors more difficult to open in the future). I'm not an expert on the process and haven't done it myself, so it would behoove you to find someone who has or at least make sure you understand all of the consequences. Depending on the relationship with her parents, you may have to consider how they will view things.

Good luck.

Thanks for this information. I was almost certain that as a Russian citizen living abroad that you would be able to register as a person living abroad. But as there is so much misinformation and confusion in Russia as to what the "real" rules and laws are, both my wife and her parents and even her friends all told me that not being registered to a home was illegal.

As far as returning to Russia, both my wife and I have no current plans to live there in the future (me having both US and Mexican citizenship we have more tropical ideas for our retirement, haha)

If she were to register at the consulate as living abroad, would it be possible to at a later date change this and re-register in Russia, at her parents home for example?

As far as her parents, they have pretty much always been absentee parents, she grew up with her grandmother basically because her parents were off building their careers whereever gazprom sent them.

Thanks again

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Here is the problem.

My wife's parents did not own a house, they were just renting. So apparently they were registered internally with some lady in another city.

They have since bought an apartment and both have changed their registration to that address.

BUT my wife in that period got married to me and was not in the country during that time. Her parents are now wanting her to go back and change her registration to their new address because they are paying that lady to use her address and dont want to pay anymore.

In my mind its all sorts of fuzzy/messed up. I dont get why she must be registered somewhere over there if she doesnt even live in the country.

Anybody have similar experiences?

Russian and Ukrainian citizens (which she is) are required to register their address with the government. Not that it is a big deal but it seems someone is extorting money from her parents for the privilege. This is much more a personal issue with her parents than a government issue.

She mau be able to update her registration to her US address at the Russian consulate in the US. US immigration does not care and it makes no difference in her immigration process

[captainofiron 2]

Russian and Ukrainian citizens (which she is) are required to register their address with the government. Not that it is a big deal but it seems someone is extorting money from her parents for the privilege. This is much more a personal issue with her parents than a government issue.

She mau be able to update her registration to her US address at the Russian consulate in the US. US immigration does not care and it makes no difference in her immigration process

Her parents always do stuff the hard way and are stubborn. I know when they lived in Ukraine for some reason or another they were registered at different addresses and possibly even legally divorced.

My outlaws (my nickname for them) do things quite weird and often frustrate the ####### out of me when they try to twist the truth/reality to get my wife to do what they want.

They had a huge fit when my wife wanted to give up her Ukrainian citizenship and when she didnt go back and renew her internal Ukrainian passport

Thanks. Yea I know that the US doesnt care, its just more of a personal issue that we are trying to figure out. We had planned to go to France for our vacation this summer, but her parents have been bugging her to go and change her registration which would waste her vacation time...

Edited January 13, 2014 by captainofiron

[captainofiron 2]

Well after talking to the Consulate in San Fransisco yesterday, it seems like you cannot get a propiska internal type registration to be "registered" at the consulate.

The consulate worker said that their registration is just a stamp in the zagran (international) passport that she lives in the US as a permanent resident.

And that to change her registration in the internal passport, she would still need to go to the city where she is registered and cancel that registration and then re-register where her parents live OR cancel it outright (since it is not a legal requirement to be registered anymore as it was in the USSR)

The consulate worker also told us that the local (I think it was MDV or FMS) office sometimes accept a certified letter stating that my wife gives her parents permission to cancel her registration at the place where she is registered, but then you would have to send the passport through the mail (and hope no one opens and steals it)

So thanks again for the tips guys, I appreciate it.

[SMR 368]

Well after talking to the Consulate in San Fransisco yesterday, it seems like you cannot get a propiska internal type registration to be "registered" at the consulate.

The consulate worker said that their registration is just a stamp in the zagran (international) passport that she lives in the US as a permanent resident.

And that to change her registration in the internal passport, she would still need to go to the city where she is registered and cancel that registration and then re-register where her parents live OR cancel it outright (since it is not a legal requirement to be registered anymore as it was in the USSR)

The consulate worker also told us that the local (I think it was MDV or FMS) office sometimes accept a certified letter stating that my wife gives her parents permission to cancel her registration at the place where she is registered, but then you would have to send the passport through the mail (and hope no one opens and steals it)

So thanks again for the tips guys, I appreciate it.

That's good to know. The question becomes, what happens if her parents just stop paying the lady? Anyways, I'm way past what I know on the subject, but it'd be interesting to know how it turns out.

[captainofiron 2]

That's good to know. The question becomes, what happens if her parents just stop paying the lady? Anyways, I'm way past what I know on the subject, but it'd be interesting to know how it turns out.

I dont think anything legally will happen to her, as the current registration isnt like the old propiska and you can get a go to gulag free card.

From everything that I have read if she loses her internal registration it really only affects things she could/or would need to be able to do IF she was living over there.

BUT we will see. My mother in law said she will go ask the MDV office worker she had been dealing with if the certified letter will work or not. If the worker says no, we will be heading to Moscow.

My wife has been wanting to change her last name in her Russian documents, so she wants to go and take care of all that in one fell swoop. Especially so since her zagran passport expires next year, this way we could just change her name while she gets the new zagran.

Anyways, I will post updates.

[Derek & Rita 6]

I'd be interested, my wife is kind of in the same situation.

We got married in Moscow, then filed the CR-1. She didn't change her name then because it's such a hassle to go to all these places especially in the cold winter snow and pregnant as well.

We got her green card in her previous name, because we felt it would be a hassle to change it during the process.

So we got to the USA, she has her green card, and they never sent her SS Card for some reason. We go to the SS office, request a replacement card, ask they put her married name (my last name) on it, they agree, we get the SSN with my name.

Tried to file taxes, it wouldn't take the SSN for some reason, we had to go back to the SS office, get a letter saying 'yes this is her ssn' and mail in the tax forms. We got our refund.

Then we wanted to get an ID Card so that I can put her name on the house we bought. Well, all her photo IDs say her previous name. We couldn't get the ID card.

So we file an I-90 to change the name on the green card. $450 and turns out it will probably be 6 months. Her GC expires in 10 months, so what's the point in changing it now if we can just change it then... but, looks like once you pay, they don't give refunds. So we could cancel the request, but then what's the point in cancelling if they won't give the money back? (looks like i'll have to wait longer on buying a new tv).

Anyway, we decided to go ahead, she wants to go to Moscow, change her name on all her documents there, but thinks she needs the green card to get that changed. Russian passport sites are written confusingly, I don't master enough of the language to make sense of it, and to my wife it's just a bunch of legalese.

That's where we're at today. We'll try a different DMV and see if we can get her an ID card with her new name on it.

As far as registration goes (all this I gleaned from talking to my wife about it for the past two years), you need to be registered to get any kind of help from the government, medical care being the most important, but you also need registration to get passports, or any kind of government documents. But, if you are registered somewhere, the owner of the place you are registered must pay a certain amount of money in taxes per each person registered. And if anyone under 18 is registered, you can't sell the property unless that child is registered somewhere else, or when they turn 18, they can provide written agreement to sell the property. You can certainly be registered while you are renting, but sometimes the landlord won't do that for you, so you have to pay someone else to do it. It's usually because the place you are renting from is overcrowded anyway because for registration you need to have a certain number of square meters per person...

Anyway, my wife is concerned because once she gets the green card in the new name, all her documents won't match, and she's afraid that Russian border control won't allow her to leave Russia if all her documents aren't in the same name.

Edited January 17, 2014 by Derek & Rita

[Amy_and_Victor 159]

I dont think anything legally will happen to her, as the current registration isnt like the old propiska and you can get a go to gulag free card.

From everything that I have read if she loses her internal registration it really only affects things she could/or would need to be able to do IF she was living over there.

Exactly. Having registration is important only if you're residing in Russia, unfortunately Russia still doesn't want to get rid of this stupid law dragging from USSR times. There you can have some troubles, because if you have no registration you can be fined if you will be lucky enough to get a documents check up by Russian police and you can't do many legal actions without registration since if you don't have registration in your passport, from the point of law you're homeless there. But if you're permanently residing abroad, it doesn't matter for you. I actually cancelled my registration in Russia to make it easier and not to get in situations like you're described. If by some circumstances we will have to move to Russia some day, I can get another one, but for now I don't see any benefits I could get from keeping my Russian registration while permanently living in the US.

- Victor from Russia

Edited January 18, 2014 by Amy_and_Victor

[captainofiron 2]

I'd be interested, my wife is kind of in the same situation.

We got married in Moscow, then filed the CR-1. She didn't change her name then because it's such a hassle to go to all these places especially in the cold winter snow and pregnant as well.

We got her green card in her previous name, because we felt it would be a hassle to change it during the process.

So we got to the USA, she has her green card, and they never sent her SS Card for some reason. We go to the SS office, request a replacement card, ask they put her married name (my last name) on it, they agree, we get the SSN with my name.

Tried to file taxes, it wouldn't take the SSN for some reason, we had to go back to the SS office, get a letter saying 'yes this is her ssn' and mail in the tax forms. We got our refund.

Then we wanted to get an ID Card so that I can put her name on the house we bought. Well, all her photo IDs say her previous name. We couldn't get the ID card.

So we file an I-90 to change the name on the green card. $450 and turns out it will probably be 6 months. Her GC expires in 10 months, so what's the point in changing it now if we can just change it then... but, looks like once you pay, they don't give refunds. So we could cancel the request, but then what's the point in cancelling if they won't give the money back? (looks like i'll have to wait longer on buying a new tv).

Anyway, we decided to go ahead, she wants to go to Moscow, change her name on all her documents there, but thinks she needs the green card to get that changed. Russian passport sites are written confusingly, I don't master enough of the language to make sense of it, and to my wife it's just a bunch of legalese.

That's where we're at today. We'll try a different DMV and see if we can get her an ID card with her new name on it.

As far as registration goes (all this I gleaned from talking to my wife about it for the past two years), you need to be registered to get any kind of help from the government, medical care being the most important, but you also need registration to get passports, or any kind of government documents. But, if you are registered somewhere, the owner of the place you are registered must pay a certain amount of money in taxes per each person registered. And if anyone under 18 is registered, you can't sell the property unless that child is registered somewhere else, or when they turn 18, they can provide written agreement to sell the property. You can certainly be registered while you are renting, but sometimes the landlord won't do that for you, so you have to pay someone else to do it. It's usually because the place you are renting from is overcrowded anyway because for registration you need to have a certain number of square meters per person...

Anyway, my wife is concerned because once she gets the green card in the new name, all her documents won't match, and she's afraid that Russian border control won't allow her to leave Russia if all her documents aren't in the same name.

tell her to try and call the Russian consulate responsible for your "district" ours is the San Fransisco. They helped us out alot (they were very rude as usual since they were having to work and not just browse vKontakte, but whatever)

As far as having different names on the US documents and Russian documents, it hasnt been any problems for us. We have gotten an Apostille marriage certificate from our state government and just present both her green card and her russian passport and the marriage certificate to explain the difference

If you browse around this forum, you will see many people dont bother changing their names in the Russian documents, it is just a pain. My wife wants to still change hers, only because she is SOOOO stubborn.

Good luck, hope everything gets smoother in your process

[Hollyday 122]

AFAIK, the Russian law requires citizens to be registered temporarily if they spend 90+ days in a certain place in Russia and 7 days in their new residence. So i don't see a person with consulate stamp in the passport being fined for not being registered (because i think it means they're not 'residing' in Russia). Source.

[captainofiron 2]

AFAIK, the Russian law requires citizens to be registered temporarily if they spend 90+ days in a certain place in Russia and 7 days in their new residence. So i don't see a person with consulate stamp in the passport being fined for not being registered (because i think it means they're not 'residing' in Russia). Source.

Does that website say anything about what to do if you live in the USA as far as registration?

I want to see if she can de-register completely and get the stamp from the consulate here in the USA

[Hollyday 122]

Does that website say anything about what to do if you live in the USA as far as registration?

I want to see if she can de-register completely and get the stamp from the consulate here in the USA

Not really.

I'm not sure she can. Proof link. Sorry, it's all in Russian. Basically it says Russian embassy in the US is not authorized to remove registration in Russia. There is a paragraph there saying something about getting the citizen's signature confirmed by a notary outside of Russia or in a Russian consulate but i can't see where they're going with this (because i don't see how you can apply to a Russian authority by mail at the same time submitting your Russian passport to have a new stamp put about registration removal).

Getting a consular stamp though is done with the consulates, yes.

[captainofiron 2]

Not really.

I'm not sure she can. Proof link. Sorry, it's all in Russian. Basically it says Russian embassy in the US is not authorized to remove registration in Russia. There is a paragraph there saying something about getting the citizen's signature confirmed by a notary outside of Russia or in a Russian consulate but i can't see where they're going with this (because i don't see how you can apply to a Russian authority by mail at the same time submitting your Russian passport to have a new stamp put about registration removal).

Getting a consular stamp though is done with the consulates, yes.

I see, well so far we were thinking to go to Russia this summer (unless the situation in Ukraine gets worse and causes issues) and go to the FMS office there and change her registration from where she is registered now, to her parents new apartment. I think it might be better if she were to completely de-register and get the stamp at the embassy.

She also wants to change her last name in her Russian paperwork (I dont understand why and think its a waste of money and time), so we will need to do that over there as well.

Thanks