In police shooting of mentally ill N.C. teen, who do you believe?

[Penny Lane 8,159]

CC permits are required in LA. You said anyone could be armed without a permit. that is not true. Open carry has never been shown to reduce crime, it is ridiculous to suggest that.

Yes, crimne has been reduced since LA implemented CC

http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/lacrime.htm

LA passed CC carry in 1996. The crime index is down 55% since 1996. Study the numbers as you wish. Have fun.

Please show me ANYTHING that states any decrease in crime is due to CC. Please.

You are focusing on CC and ignoring that you consistently champion for less restrictive gun laws. LA has some of the most lax and still are the leaders (or among them) in violent crime.

Maybe it's time for you to come to terms with reality.

There are states with very strict gun laws but still have high crime. On the other hand, there are states like LA with very lax laws and still have high crime.

Maybe, just maybe, your guns aren't the factor determining the crime rate.

Then why would anyone want gun laws?

DERP.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Both population density and guns play a part in crime statistics, along with economics, drugs and education. Guns just make it easier to commit the crimes and kill people.

Seems like I am the only one providing data to back up my claim. The rest is blag, blah blah. Which, of course is WHY no state has repealed CC. Links please to all the above claims.

Then links to where crime has been reduced by more gun laws and then links relating how gun laws affect any of those other items. I'll wait.

[Penny Lane 8,159]

Seems like I am the only one providing data to back up my claim.

Where have you shown a study that directly links CC to reducing crime?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

In and of itself the data posted does not back up the claim that was made.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Presumably its because there is little specific correlation between the gun laws and the crime rate. However the presence of more guns in society and an entrenched gang/drug dealing culture in impoverished parts of the country leads to more gun related and other violent crime.

Links please

FWIW VT has the highest rate of opiate addiction in the USA and a slightly below average income and a very avaerage rate of poverty. None of which are affected by gun laws. VT has among the lowest crime rates in the country, many years it is the lowest. We also gave an international border rife with drug smugglers (oh yes, it is!)

Why are NONE of you posting links to this wonderful information you provide?

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/09/us/in-annual-speech-vermont-governor-shifts-focus-to-drug-abuse.html?_r=0 Drug addiciton in Vermont has not caused high crime because we can be armed

In and of itself the data posted does not back up the claim that was made.

I wait for you to post data for your claims .

Where have you shown a study that directly links CC to reducing crime?

Where have you shown one that relates CC to higher crime?

[Penny Lane 8,159]

Links please

FWIW VT has the highest rate of opiate addiction in the USA and a slightly below average income and a very avaerage rate of poverty. None of which are affected by gun laws. VT has among the lowest crime rates in the country, many years it is the lowest. We also gave an international border rife with drug smugglers (oh yes, it is!)

Why are NONE of you posting links to this wonderful information you provide?

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/09/us/in-annual-speech-vermont-governor-shifts-focus-to-drug-abuse.html?_r=0 Drug addiciton in Vermont has not caused high crime because we can be armed

I wait for you to post data for your claims .

So in Garyland, guns get the credit for low crime in states like Vermont. But guns do not get blame for high crime in states like Louisiana.

You've yet to post anything that proves gun laws are related to the crime rate at all. You think you have, which is adorable. But you haven't.

Where have you shown one that relates CC to higher crime?

Well there's the thing, Gary. I haven't stated that CC = higher crime. You, however, have stated that CC = lower crime. Time to back up that statement with something that's not simply your opinion.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

It's a general opinion, I haven't made any specific study on the subject nor am I making any such claims. Neither I suspect have you. My view is that crime rates are tied to a range of factors - the idea that somehow gun laws are largely or solely responsible for significant increases or decreases can't be proven IMO. If you think that they can, feel free to prove it.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Please show me ANYTHING that states any decrease in crime is due to CC. Please.

You are focusing on CC and ignoring that you consistently champion for less restrictive gun laws. LA has some of the most lax and still are the leaders (or among them) in violent crime.

Maybe it's time for you to come to terms with reality.

There are states with very strict gun laws but still have high crime. On the other hand, there are states like LA with very lax laws and still have high crime.

Maybe, just maybe, your guns aren't the factor determining the crime rate.

DERP.

Your turn. Show me a link to anything you claim.

In EVERY state that has implemented CC crime has been reduced following that. You suggest it is a coincidence. Show me. I think I provided my share of links.

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

I don't need to.

IL implemented CC in late 2012. Crime is at a 50 year low in 2013. What you need to do is prove your claim that increased arms in society increase crime or accept the facts.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/09/10/us-usa-crime-chicago-idUSBRE9891F620130910

According to the Mayor of Chicago, increased foot patrol and more police helped. Nothing about CC.

[GandD 5,966]

For this thread, ban mentally ill teens. Or police.

[Ban Hammer 13,599]

one personal insult removed. discuss the topic please.

[Penny Lane 8,159]

Your turn. Show me a link to anything you claim.

In EVERY state that has implemented CC crime has been reduced following that. You suggest it is a coincidence. Show me. I think I provided my share of links.

I haven't made any claims.

I've stated that there are states with high and low crime regardless of their gun laws. You are telling me their gun laws (whether strict or lax) have a direct impact on the crime rate. All I'm asking for is proof of that.

I used LA as an example. Lax gun laws, high crime. But states like California have strict gun laws and high crime. Vermont has lax gun laws and low crime.

So please, show me what I'm missing, Gary. Show me the proof that these gun laws, regardless of how strict they are, are having an impact either way.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

It's a general opinion, I haven't made any specific study on the subject nor am I making any such claims. Neither I suspect have you. My view is that crime rates are tied to a range of factors - the idea that somehow gun laws are largely or solely responsible for significant increases or decreases can't be proven IMO. If you think that they can, feel free to prove it.

Good enough for me. I support your right to an opinion

Conjecture, Thanks.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

I haven't made any claims.

I've stated that there are states with high and low crime regardless of their gun laws. You are telling me their gun laws (whether strict or lax) have a direct impact on the crime rate. All I'm asking for is proof of that.

I used LA as an example. Lax gun laws, high crime. But states like California have strict gun laws and high crime. Vermont has lax gun laws and low crime.

So please, show me what I'm missing, Gary. Show me the proof that these gun laws, regardless of how strict they are, are having an impact either way.

No claims. Got it. No claims. Gun laws have no impact either way. OK

[Ban Hammer 13,599]

3 additional posts removed, along with one member's access to this thread for failing to heed moderation direction