Colorado school shooting: Armed guards the answer?

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

http://news.yahoo.com/colorado-school-shooting-armed-guards-answer-014500823.html

The NRA said so a year ago. After the attempt to strip our rights failed early this year, Obama quietly approved millions of dollars for federal aid to help schools employ armed guards, like this one. That was the suggestion of Wayne LaPierre of the NRA which was loudly lambasted by idiots. I haven't heard any of the Obama spittle lickers praising Obama for funding the guard that, in this case, drastically minimized the damage. I am so surprised.

From the attached article...

As a result, Arapahoe County Sheriff Grayson Robinson said at a briefing Saturday afternoon, the heavily-armed shooter realized he was about to be confronted by an armed officer, and he took his own life.

While I am rarely at a loss to criticize Obama, I will gladly say that in this case, he did the right thing. Wayne LaPierre should be one of his policy advisors.

"But how could that be?" If the gunman was going to commit suicide anyway? I am guessing none of the +1s for such logic will agree with the professionals...doesn't fit the template. Well so far, no one has died in this one except the piece of trash that perpetrated the crime.

The sooner a good guy with a gun gets there, the less damage there is. When it is purlicized that schools are NO LONGER "gun free zones" full of unarmed victims, this nonsense will STOP. Anyone that would call police (men with guns) when something like this happens and be against police posted in our schools is a moron.

Look for the "new gun laws" passed in Colorado to be repealed. Probably this year. Which Democrat State Rep. wants to lose his/her job for voting against repeal?

You wanted to save "just one child"? Congratulations! A good man with a gun just saved many.

Be happy!

Edited December 15, 2013 by Gary and Alla

[Darnell 8,479]

guards? Maybe.

I'm a fan of arming the teachers, or at least keeping a weapons cabinet where the teachers can get to it.

[lostinblue 1,989]

I am for an armed officer on school grounds. Give him some duties.... Let him teach a course....He could be CC as not to frighten the liberal children. In some of the tougher schools it will be a blessing.

[Dakine10 5,452]

Look for the "new gun laws" passed in Colorado to be repealed. Probably this year. Which Democrat State Rep. wants to lose his/her job for voting against repeal?

You wanted to save "just one child"? Congratulations! A good man with a gun just saved many.

Be happy!

The same Colorado legislature that passed gun legislation also approved the increase use of resource officers at schools this year. Of course that didn't make the national news.

Armed resource officers at schools are common in Colorado since the Columbine tragedy and they are overwhelming supported by both legislature and electorate.

Teachers are trained in how to respond to a armed threat situation. They are trained well. Arming teachers will never be part of that response. It will never be supported by the electorate. It will never pass a vote in the legislature. It's not even a remote possibility. Non issue.

You are moving the goal posts Gary. Saying "if everyone is armed these shootings wouldn't happen" is not the same as saying "an armed law enforcement presence will deter some of these events and mitigate the casualties when these tragedies do occur". I would agree with your basic premise in this topic. I fully support the presence of armed resource officer(s) at schools. Arming everyone else is a different argument.

Edited December 16, 2013 by Dakine10

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Armed resource officers at schools are common in Colorado since the Columbine tragedy and they are overwhelming supported by both legislature and electorate.

Not just since Columbine. There actually was an armed officer at Columbine High when the massacre there occurred. He was unable to stop it.

[Dakine10 5,452]

Not just since Columbine. There actually was an armed officer at Columbine High when the massacre there occurred. He was unable to stop it.

At the time, Columbine had an armed security guard. He almost got himself killed. He is on record as saying if schools are going to have an armed presence, it should be law enforcement only. Security guards are not trained to respond the way law enforcement officers are. In fact some of them are not trained at all.

Now Virginia Tech had a law enforcement presence. I believe there is an entire police detachment on campus there. Obviously it did not serve as a deterrent to the shooter in that case.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

At the time, Columbine had an armed security guard. He almost got himself killed. He is on record as saying if schools are going to have an armed presence, it should be law enforcement only. Security guards are not trained to respond the way law enforcement officers are. In fact some of them are not trained at all.

The armed officer at Columbine High was a sheriff's deputy that had 15 years as a law enforcement officer under his belt. He sure had the training and experience required to do the job but even that wasn't enough to stop the shooters that killed 12 students and a teacher.

The whole idea that more guns will solve the problem is absolutely ridiculous. If more guns were the answer, then this country, having one of the highest - if not the highest - gun saturation rates, should be the safest place on earth. And yet, this country is anything but the safest place on earth. Far, far from it.

Edited December 16, 2013 by Mr. Big Dog

[Dakine10 5,452]

The armed officer at Columbine High was a sheriff's deputy that had 15 years as a law enforcement officer under his belt. He sure had the training and experience required to do the job but even that wasn't enough to stop the shooters that killed 12 students and a teacher.

The whole idea that more guns will solve the problem is absolutely ridiculous. If more guns were the answer, then this country, having one of the highest - if not the highest - gun saturation rates, should be the safest place on earth. And yet, this country is anything but the safest place on earth. Far, far from it.

Yeah I looked it up and he was a deputy. Interesting because every news story and article at the time here referred to him as a security guard. That's why I remember him as one. And he did do the interview some time after where he said schools should only have law enforcement and it sounded like he was making an excuse as to why he was not effective at the Columbine incident. He didn't have the demeanor of an officer.

Also remember he was criticized for not having his glasses on while firing at (and missing) a target 50 yards away, and that probably the only reason he survived is because the shooters gun jammed. The shooters basically targeted the officer before he was even aware of them. Not an effective deterrent in that incident either I guess.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Not an effective deterrent in that incident either I guess.

One does not deter suicidal subjects with the threat of death.

[Peikko 1,575]

I guess you could go at it the other way around, try to PREVENT people from becoming mentally unstable to the point where they feel that shooting their problems is some kind of answer. However that presupposes a) that people are interested in preventative mental health care and b) changing the perceived mentality of guns being an answer to every potentially dangerous situation. Guns are not an answer to very much - they kill people and killing people should be the least used option not the go to option. Nothing is likely to change. Not one thing, just more people getting killed unnecessarily.

[Penny Lane 8,159]

You'll never see the gun-lovers on this forum rant about mental health awareness with the same passion they use in their rants about their precious guns or the evil President.

They do not care about the actual problem.

Hell, they ignore that there is a problem.

This is the way they want their country to be. Everyone armed to the teeth, even the people in charge of educating our children. Guns in schools is the logical answer to them.

Let's arm everyone while we're at it. Everyone gets a gun and just hope for the best. Guns in church, guns at work, guns at the movie theater, guns at the mall. Let's have armed guards patrolling EVERYWHERE. Then we'll be safe.

Edited December 16, 2013 by Penny Lane

[lostinblue 1,989]

You'll never see the gun-lovers on this forum rant about mental health awareness with the same passion they use in their rants about their precious guns or the evil President.

They do not care about the actual problem.

Hell, they ignore that there is a problem.

This is the way they want their country to be. Everyone armed to the teeth, even the people in charge of educating our children. Guns in schools is the logical answer to them.

Let's arm everyone while we're at it. Everyone gets a gun and just hope for the best. Guns in church, guns at work, guns at the movie theater, guns at the mall. Let's have armed guards patrolling EVERYWHERE. Then we'll be safe.

NRA blames mental health system for mass shootings Says more patients should be held

WASHINGTON — Greater efforts are needed to identify and lock up mentally ill people who are dangerous, a top National Rifle Association official responding to the recent Washington Navy Yard shootings said Sunday.

The nation’s mental health system is ‘‘in complete breakdown,’’ resulting in not enough of the mentally ill being committed to psychiatric hospitals, National Rifle Association executive vice president Wayne LaPierre said on NBC’s ‘‘Meet the Press.’’

‘‘If we leave these homicidal maniacs on the street . . . they’re going to kill,’’ he said. ‘‘They need to be committed is what they need to be. If they are committed, they’re not at the Naval Yard.’’

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

NRA blames mental health system for mass shootings Says more patients should be held

The NRA will blame anything but the flood of guns. In fact, it will blame anything while advocating to add more guns into a nation that is already saturated with them. More guns is the universal answer the NRA presents to gun violence. We know that doing the same thing over and over expecting different results is the very definition of insanity. Thus, it is fair to say that only the insane would believe that more guns are the answer.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

The lesson we didn't learn from Newtown

...

Even if authorities can identify a potentially dangerous mentally ill person and do revoke that person's gun license, the sheer superabundance of guns in the United States puts weapons in easy reach of anyone who wants them. The guns that Adam Lanza used at Sandy Hook were bought by his mother, who could have passed any background check.

A society with a lot of guns is going to have a lot of shootings, no matter what else it does for the mentally ill -- especially since the most common form of gun violence is not homicide but suicide. The self-slaughter of a chronically depressed person is a mental health failure, too.

A stronger mental health system is not an alternative to gun safety laws. It must operate in tandem with them. That lesson was written in blood at Newtown, yet it remains unlearned to this day.

[Penny Lane 8,159]

NRA blames mental health system for mass shootings Says more patients should be held

WASHINGTON — Greater efforts are needed to identify and lock up mentally ill people who are dangerous, a top National Rifle Association official responding to the recent Washington Navy Yard shootings said Sunday.

The nation’s mental health system is ‘‘in complete breakdown,’’ resulting in not enough of the mentally ill being committed to psychiatric hospitals, National Rifle Association executive vice president Wayne LaPierre said on NBC’s ‘‘Meet the Press.’’

‘‘If we leave these homicidal maniacs on the street . . . they’re going to kill,’’ he said. ‘‘They need to be committed is what they need to be. If they are committed, they’re not at the Naval Yard.’’

I like how the NRA apparently seems to think that people with mental health issues should simply be locked up and committed. There's no talk of therapy, no talk of treatment, nothing. Just lock up the "homicidal maniacs" and be done with it!

They also apparently have no problem with how easy it is for these people to gain access to a wide variety of weapons.