NON-IMMIGRANT K3 - NON - Immigrant B.S.!!

[Darnell 8,478]

Why do they call it a NON Immigrant Visa when the applicant is required to immagrate to the US? I am a US citizen ex patriot living and working with my girlfriend in Poland. We have been together for 14 years now. I want to marry her and live IN POLAND - we DO NOT want to live in America, but my family is in the US and we want to visit from time to time. When we apply for a tourist visa, they will NOT give it to her because she is in a relationship with an American and they presume that she will marry and immigrate - I looked at the K-3 Spousal Visa thinking it was for US citizens who marry and live abroad and want to visit the US with their foreign spouses - But it requires the same steps as a K1 Fiance Visa - an affidavit of support filed by petitioner - I can NOT file an affidavit of support because I do not earn an income in the US - I do not live in the US anymore, and I earn very little money in Poland.

It seems they have created an impossible situation for US citizens who choose to marry and live abroad with foreign spouse to return and visit the US to see family - They will not give a tourist visa to her because we are together and I am American, and they provide no real NON Immigrant alternative visa.

What do I do now?

You seem angry. I suggest not thinking about any visa stuff for yer lass into the USA, for a bit.

[Gosia & Tito 199]

Why do they call it a NON Immigrant Visa when the applicant is required to immagrate to the US? I am a US citizen ex patriot living and working with my girlfriend in Poland. We have been together for 14 years now. I want to marry her and live IN POLAND - we DO NOT want to live in America, but my family is in the US and we want to visit from time to time. When we apply for a tourist visa, they will NOT give it to her because she is in a relationship with an American and they presume that she will marry and immigrate - I looked at the K-3 Spousal Visa thinking it was for US citizens who marry and live abroad and want to visit the US with their foreign spouses - But it requires the same steps as a K1 Fiance Visa - an affidavit of support filed by petitioner - I can NOT file an affidavit of support because I do not earn an income in the US - I do not live in the US anymore, and I earn very little money in Poland.

It seems they have created an impossible situation for US citizens who choose to marry and live abroad with foreign spouse to return and visit the US to see family - They will not give a tourist visa to her because we are together and I am American, and they provide no real NON Immigrant alternative visa.

What do I do now?

Has there been an actual attempt for a visa (a B1/B2)?? The rate of denial of visas is quite reduced to what it used to be. Having a job, home, bank accounts, etc should be sufficient to prove it; but perhaps it could be worth for you to stop by the embassy in Warszawa and inquiry about this case.

I'm not sure that they would need to know that her current relationship is with someone form the US.

In our case, my now wife got a visa to visit before we actually got together, she did not even have a relationship to go ack to; she did have a job and relatives of course. She had no problems with the visa.

[Darnell 8,478]

Sorry N-o-l-a, now I see what you were saying - but my entire point is that we do not want to immigrate to the US - we never will - I know it's hard for some people to get their head around, but I am a US citizen who wants to live in Poland - I want marry my girlfriend whom I've been with for 14 years in Poland, and simply travel to visit my mother with her maybe once a year for 2-3 months (a summer) -

When she had the interview with the CO she made it very clear that she had NO intention of immigrating or marrying in the US - she presented all ties to Poland, and the CO insisted that if she is in a realtionship with a US citizen than she MUST apply for a Fiance or Spousal visa -

I was not allowed to be present during the interview, and as I understand it, no US citizen is allowed to be present during a Tourist Visa applicant interview - they will not allow any intervention by a US citizen on the behalf of the applicant

After you marry, try to apply for the tourist visa again, but

this time, YOU write a letter of attestation about you being an expat in Poland, and YOU show your intent to not repatriate yourself to the USA.

This can be show via work contracts, land deeds, business partnership paperwork, etc.

Make certain she has this in her hands, and that she gives it over to the Vice-Consul handling the interview, and make certain yer lass says , "My husband is right outside the door, waiting to speak to you about his existence in Poland" .

That's it. That's about the only hook you have, the next attempt.

[RhettVoe 282]

Lessons learned: a USC cannot 'intervene' during a tourist visa interview; the actions of visa abusers has brought about this situation; if Congress would actually enforce our laws and close other loopholes exploited by visa cheats worldwide, others might be given the benefit of the doubt; be prepared, if someday, you do decide to take up residence again in the US, that establishing and proving domicile will be challenging.

[Beata1501 14]

Must be a Polish thing. The embassy in Moscow considers all K visas as immigrant visas.

Nope, it's just an American thing. USCIS site calls it that way: http://www.uscis.gov/family/family-us-citizens/k3-k4-visa/k-3k-4-nonimmigrant-visas

[Girl from Celebes 588]

Thanks Penguin - Yes, she applied for the tourist visa last summer and was prepared with bank account statements, employment contracts, and her ongoing studies for a masters degree in Poland, and well over $500,000 in property and assets that tie her to Poland - the consultae officer wouldn't even LOOK at anything she had and rejected her on 214b (the umbrella denial) and told her that because she was in an ongoing long term relationship with a US citizen she should apply for a K1 or K3 visa - in spite of the apparent fact that I now live with her in Poland - They don't look at anything that validates my stay in poland, because the US cuntsulate won't hear anything from a US citizen arguing on the behalf of a visa applicant - and she can only show her own documents - which they refused to even look at. She went to the consulate in Krakow, and then tried in Warsaw hoping for a reasonable Consular Officer, to no vail, because of course they will not contradict each other.

I'm thoroughly disgusted at this presumption that every one wants to immigrate to the US, even after showing that both parties (US citizen and visa applicant) ae established and intend to live in a foreign country.

It's a bit of a stalemate

I got denied for B-2 visa in 2010 just because I had an American boyfriend (now-my fiance). They did not looked up a bunch of papers I brought and wrote on green paper stating," consider filed petition for K-1 visa".

I found the ground of denial was unacceptable. Because someone abused B-2 visa makes all people are guilty now. They did not even consider my job or my fiance's job that both of us won't jeopardize our reputation that we already builded up for many years.

If I were a jobless girl from street, no assets, no saving, or family, okay, they could've just denied me then. But, I have steady job at reputable company in my country and they did not looked up on documents for more details.

[NikLR 13,228]

Huh? Why should they apply for a greencard if they don't want to live in the US? Why should she apply for citizenship?

That hole thing doesn't make any sense!

Does that mean that if a US citizen wants to stay in a foreign country and his wife or future wife is from that country they are ###### out of luck and will never be able to visit the US?

So wait:

My husband and I are planing on going back to Germany maybe in 3-4 years! Will not need my greencard anymore! That means that they will never let me back into the country because I am married to an US citizen and they think I would love to stay there? LMAO that stuff is to funny!

I suggest that you get citizenship if you're wanting to visit back and forth. VWP will make it easier for you to visit than someone who needs a visa, but citizenship makes it a lot easier.

Edited December 16, 2013 by NLR

[Neonred 3,579]

Nope, it's just an American thing. USCIS site calls it that way: http://www.uscis.gov/family/family-us-citizens/k3-k4-visa/k-3k-4-nonimmigrant-visas

More importantly, is anyone even getting the K-3 visa anymore?

Not that I have heard of.

[peterlavilla 1]

Huh? Why should they apply for a greencard if they don't want to live in the US? Why should she apply for citizenship?

That hole thing doesn't make any sense!

Does that mean that if a US citizen wants to stay in a foreign country and his wife or future wife is from that country they are ###### out of luck and will never be able to visit the US?

So wait:

My husband and I are planing on going back to Germany maybe in 3-4 years! Will not need my greencard anymore! That means that they will never let me back into the country because I am married to an US citizen and they think I would love to stay there? LMAO that stuff is to funny!

Well you will most likely be able to use the VWP again if you decide to move back to Germany and abandon your green card.

Some non-VWP countries where it's really difficult to get a tourist visa certainly have this problem.

EXACTLY ! As an American I am ashamed at the presumption the US has that all foreigners are so desperate to immigrate to the US - even when my girlfriend tried to show all of her ties to Poland which included over $500,000 in property and assets and her own business, the CO refused to even look at her documents saying that if she is n a relationship with a US citizen than they are obligated to presume her intent to marry me in the US and change her status - despite the fact that I clearly live with her in Poland

I am amazed that there is no true NON Immigrant Spousal Visa- essentialy the United States is saying to its citizens who choose to marry and live abroad that our foreign spouses are banned from "visiting" their new inlaws - they MUST immigrate and live in the US for up to 3 years

Poland is an EU member and is still not part of the Visa Waiver Program, which is also obscene -

Not to mention that as a US citizen, if I do want to marry and petition for a Spousal or Fiance visa I must file an affidavit of support - in other words, I have to prove to 'Uncle Sam' that I earn at least $25,000 a year or I CAN'T get her a spousal visa - so if I don't make enough money, I can't marry whom I choose to -

In the end it's all about money - if I have $5000 - $10,000 I can get an immigration lawyer to expedite the whole thing - that's IF I make a lot of money anually in the first place - So America welcomes anybody in if you can pay the price. Not so "free" after all.

[N-o-l-a 7,168]

In the end it's all about money - if I have $5000 - $10,000 I can get an immigration lawyer to expedite the whole thing - that's IF I make a lot of money anually in the first place - So America welcomes anybody in if you can pay the price. Not so "free" after all.

I just wanted to clarify that I lawyer can not expedite your case. It is a common misconception.

[nanana 74]

I suggest that you get citizenship if you're wanting to visit back and forth. VWP will make it easier for you to visit than someone who needs a visa, but citizenship makes it a lot easier.

it doesn't sound like good advice for someone who has no intention to move ever to usa.

I find it a little bit silly to leave everything for 3 years , business especially! just because someone wants to visit family in law.. from time to time.

the system is broken, and it is sad that Poland is still not include in VWP program

For me you should try do as Darnell says..

[N-o-l-a 7,168]

it doesn't sound like good advice for someone who has no intention to move ever to usa.

I find it a little bit silly to leave everything for 3 years , business especially! just because someone wants to visit family in law.. from time to time.

the system is broken, and it is sad that Poland is still not include in VWP program

For me you should try do as Darnell says..

It doesn't matter for OP right now whether or not Poland is a VWP country because now that she has been denied a visa, she would also have to apply for one in the future, even if Poland becomes part of the VWP.

[nanana 74]

It doesn't matter for OP right now whether or not Poland is a VWP country because now that she has been denied a visa, she would also have to apply for one in the future, even if Poland becomes part of the VWP.

Ow ok, learning sth new everyday here.

I hope they will find a way to let her visit her new family one day

[JohnR! 5,495]

Why do they call it a NON Immigrant Visa when the applicant is required to immagrate to the US? I am a US citizen ex patriot living and working with my girlfriend in Poland. We have been together for 14 years now. I want to marry her and live IN POLAND - we DO NOT want to live in America, but my family is in the US and we want to visit from time to time. When we apply for a tourist visa, they will NOT give it to her because she is in a relationship with an American and they presume that she will marry and immigrate - I looked at the K-3 Spousal Visa thinking it was for US citizens who marry and live abroad and want to visit the US with their foreign spouses - But it requires the same steps as a K1 Fiance Visa - an affidavit of support filed by petitioner - I can NOT file an affidavit of support because I do not earn an income in the US - I do not live in the US anymore, and I earn very little money in Poland.

It seems they have created an impossible situation for US citizens who choose to marry and live abroad with foreign spouse to return and visit the US to see family - They will not give a tourist visa to her because we are together and I am American, and they provide no real NON Immigrant alternative visa.

What do I do now?

Peter, both the K-1 and K-3 are considered non-immigrant visas, because at the time of arrival at the POE the bearer is not admitted as a permanent resident. It is true that the intent of the bearers is to AOS and become permanent residents, but that does not change the category of these visas. In any case, this distinction is immaterial in the case of your wife, for she is not seeking to establish residence in the US, therefore neither applies to her.

In her case the correct visa should be a B2, which is your garden-variety tourist visa and therein lies the rub. Fro the purpose of tourist visas, anyone who has a US citizen as a boyfriend is considered an immigration risk, because of the thousands that seek admission as tourists and enter the US with the intent to marry and AOS, which is considered immigration fraud. Unfortunately your girlfriend was penalized because of malfeasance of others. This too does not help because the rules are not to change anytime soon.

By the information you give, it seems that she was not able to explain clearly and concisely to the IO what her plans were, or the IO acted precipitously by assuming that she was seeking a fiancee visa, given you are a US citizen.

My suggestion is that she request a new interview, during which she should explain her motives for wanting to come to the US. It should help if she brings along your documentation as evidence you have a job and permanent residence in Poland, which should help her provide ties with her home country, through you. If she does not want to request a new interview in the near future, she should do so once you are legally married, for that will certainly change the entire paradigm before the IO.

Good luck!

[peterlavilla 1]

Peter, both the K-1 and K-3 are considered non-immigrant visas, because at the time of arrival at the POE the bearer is not admitted as a permanent resident. It is true that the intent of the bearers is to AOS and become permanent residents, but that does not change the category of these visas. In any case, this distinction is immaterial in the case of your wife, for she is not seeking to establish residence in the US, therefore neither applies to her.

In her case the correct visa should be a B2, which is your garden-variety tourist visa and therein lies the rub. Fro the purpose of tourist visas, anyone who has a US citizen as a boyfriend is considered an immigration risk, because of the thousands that seek admission as tourists and enter the US with the intent to marry and AOS, which is considered immigration fraud. Unfortunately your girlfriend was penalized because of malfeasance of others. This too does not help because the rules are not to change anytime soon.

By the information you give, it seems that she was not able to explain clearly and concisely to the IO what her plans were, or the IO acted precipitously by assuming that she was seeking a fiancee visa, given you are a US citizen.

My suggestion is that she request a new interview, during which she should explain her motives for wanting to come to the US. It should help if she brings along your documentation as evidence you have a job and permanent residence in Poland, which should help her provide ties with her home country, through you. If she does not want to request a new interview in the near future, she should do so once you are legally married, for that will certainly change the entire paradigm before the IO.

Good luck!

Thank you Gegel - I suppose it's silly of me at this point to complain about what seems to be a glaring overlook in the US immigration system - I am certain that I am not the only US citizen who has decided to marry and live in another country - I just find it absurd that I can't speak to a Consulate Officer about my situation - I am not speaking on the behalf of a foreign national applying for a US visa - I am speaking solely on my behalf as a US citizen who should have the right to marry and live where I choose in this world and be allowed to travel freely into the US for up to 3 months to visit with my foreign spouse - I would have thought that that is what a "Spousal Visa" is - instead it's not any different than a Fiance Visa - they are both immigrant visas - They should have a visa for the foreigs spouses of American expatriots who live abroad - it would seem there are many people in the military or in business who would fit this category - it's not such a 'niche'