Off duty Fresno cop shot at and fired back

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I think it's quite obvious the cause is tied to economic disparities and the effect that has on social class and aspiration.

The idea that people are just 'bad' and getting worse is spurious.

[spookyturtle 9,465]

Spooks, the solution coming from the right is just this. The reason people die from guns is because they themselves did not have a gun. There are two solutions being proposed to curb gun violence at their most basic principles. More guns or less guns. I think less is more construction.

If no one had a gun, it would work fine. But if you took away every legal gun in the US, the bad guys would still have them or find a way to get them. Marijuana, heroin and cocaine are illegal, yet the same people who are anti gun want to legalize drugs to cut down on crime. The majority of gun owners are following the laws of their state in obtaining them. The street gang members are not.

Then there would be no need for this forum. Bite your tongue Spooky!

Just think how much more productive we would all be! Crime would probably go down without VJ.

[GandD 5,966]

If no one had a gun, it would work fine. But if you took away every legal gun in the US, the bad guys would still have them or find a way to get them. Marijuana, heroin and cocaine are illegal, yet the same people who are anti gun want to legalize drugs to cut down on crime. The majority of gun owners are following the laws of their state in obtaining them. The street gang members are not.

Once again, this is not about absolutes. You can't make a law that "bans guns in the US" But we're loosing focus of the real goal which is that we shouldn't need them to begin with. The moment we accept carrying a gun to work as a safety "just in case" device is the same moment we become helpless to address the orgy of illegal guns flowing through our society. Why can we not look at where criminals obtain illegal guns and make real strides towards tieing guns to original gun purchasers only? I keep hearing that we'll never stop the illegal gun trade. Does that mean we are helpless to make any strides against it? Do we not enforce traffic laws because we don't catch all offenders or do we think of new and different ways to promote compliance?

[lostinblue 1,989]

Once again, this is not about absolutes. You can't make a law that "bans guns in the US" But we're loosing focus of the real goal which is that we shouldn't need them to begin with. The moment we accept carrying a gun to work as a safety "just in case" device is the same moment we become helpless to address the orgy of illegal guns flowing through our society. Why can we not look at where criminals obtain illegal guns and make real strides towards tieing guns to original gun purchasers only? I keep hearing that we'll never stop the illegal gun trade. Does that mean we are helpless to make any strides against it? Do we not enforce traffic laws because we don't catch all offenders or do we think of new and different ways to promote compliance?

So how do you decide to reduce the numbers of guns? I can only own 1....5...10... shotgun, pistol, ar-15,... The ar-15 is the most popular gun in america today by some accounts. Who makes the decision that spooks cannot own a gun and gary can. ?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

You're only responsible for your own actions. Carrying a gun 'just to be safe' is a curious attitude. I agree that the majority of gun owners are law abiding (it'd be rude not to) but by the same token is it wrong to suggest similarly that the majority of people you're likely to meet are law abiding, reasonable people.

I think the underlying attitude here contributes to a culture of fear where a gun is seen as the first resort to resolve any problem. The George zimmerman case might be an example of this - someone with not so great a temper who might have gone looking for trouble on the basis that having a gun entitled him to do the job of the police.

One poster on VJ once boasted about pulling a gun on a bloke at a funfair. Not because the bloke was threatening him but because he thought he was up to no good. Is that right?

Is a gun really like a seat belt or does it encourage some people to turn to violence before adopting more reasonable solutions?

Edited December 4, 2013 by Papa Lazarou

[GandD 5,966]

So how do you decide to reduce the numbers of guns? I can only own 1....5...10... shotgun, pistol, ar-15,... The ar-15 is the most popular gun in america today by some accounts. Who makes the decision that spooks cannot own a gun and gary can. ?

Those decisions are made today. Felon's and people with a history of mental illness are restricted from owning guns and I think we would all agree this is a good idea. I know the ar-15 is popular and for the life of me I can't see why any one would want it. So far I've heard its for fun, person protection (a little cumbersome I would think), and for collecting. None of these reasons validate its need in my opinion but you and I both know pistols are the big killers. Any real strides to curbing violence would have to be made towards hand guns.

Really, I think the biggest problem is handguns that are bought by fairly responsible folks getting lost or stolen or whatever and ending up in the hands of the folks that neither you or I want to have. What about safety mandates for new guns going forward. I say add a little technology that ties a gun to a microchip being worn by the owner. I mean, who wants to have their gun used against them? Maybe like the owner has a bracelet or something that has to be within a certain distance of the gun for it to function.

Whatever, I know you guys are going to call me loony or a dreamer, but I'd love to see a technological way to tie a gun to an owner genetically, technologically, or through some other medium. I don't believe these options are impossible with current or soon to be current technology.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Some people could probably do with having the gun physically inserted into their bodies ;-)

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Once again, this is not about absolutes. You can't make a law that "bans guns in the US" But we're loosing focus of the real goal which is that we shouldn't need them to begin with. The moment we accept carrying a gun to work as a safety "just in case" device is the same moment we become helpless to address the orgy of illegal guns flowing through our society. Why can we not look at where criminals obtain illegal guns and make real strides towards tieing guns to original gun purchasers only? I keep hearing that we'll never stop the illegal gun trade. Does that mean we are helpless to make any strides against it? Do we not enforce traffic laws because we don't catch all offenders or do we think of new and different ways to promote compliance?

Well said.

[Darnell 8,478]

Once again, this is not about absolutes. You can't make a law that "bans guns in the US" But we're loosing focus of the real goal which is that we shouldn't need them to begin with. The moment we accept carrying a gun to work as a safety "just in case" device is the same moment we become helpless to address the orgy of illegal guns flowing through our society. Why can we not look at where criminals obtain illegal guns and make real strides towards tieing guns to original gun purchasers only? I keep hearing that we'll never stop the illegal gun trade. Does that mean we are helpless to make any strides against it? Do we not enforce traffic laws because we don't catch all offenders or do we think of new and different ways to promote compliance?

Can we ban something, though, just not the guns? Lets see...

If'n we ban illegal aliens, then

the illegal aliens won't be in the USA,

and the fellas that need the monies have the sh|t jobs available to them,

and can work, with the need for thievery removed.

How 'bout that ?

Edited December 4, 2013 by Darnell

[spookyturtle 9,465]

Can we ban something, though, just not the guns? Lets see...

If'n we ban illegal aliens, then

the illegal aliens won't be in the USA,

and the fellas that need the monies have the sh|t jobs available to them,

and can work, with the need for thievery removed.

How 'bout that ?

No way!! We should make illegal immigration legal and take away all the legally owned guns so that only illegally legal immigrants have them. Let's reward those who break the law and penalize those who obey it!!

[GandD 5,966]

No way!! We should make illegal immigration legal and take away all the legally owned guns so that only illegally legal immigrants have them. Let's reward those who break the law and penalize those who obey it!!

You should be above this level of conjecture. I refuse to believe you're one of the absolutists.

[spookyturtle 9,465]

You should be above this level of conjecture. I refuse to believe you're one of the absolutists.

I'm not an absolutist.

I am not for amnesty for illegals. I realize they can't all be deported, but I also feel that breaking the law shouldn't be rewarded, especially since many here have waited years to get through the process legally.

I am for harsh fines and penalties for American companies that knowingly hire illegals. I am for mandatory E-Verify. This will go a long way toward taking care of the problem.

I have no problem with having able bodied welfare and public benefit recipients to have to do some type of public work or service in order to receive their benefits. Why not have them clean up our streets, parks, etc? Or help with some type of schooling. I have no problem helping those in need, but they should make some effort and do their share too.

The Constitution give the right to keep and bear arms. Until it amended, that is how it is, like it or not. I personally have no problem being a licensed gun owner. I had to take a test to get my drivers license, I must take continuing ed courses to renew my construction and real estate licenses. I don't think it is an outrage for someone to have to demonstrate basic competency in order to purchase a gun. I don't think convicts or people arrested for assault or violent crimes, etc should be able to buy guns. Gun laws vary by state. Obey the laws of your state.

I don't think that all legal gun owners should be penalized for the actions of criminals. I also believe that if every legal gun owner turned in all of their guns, there would still be plenty of gun crimes on the street, because the criminals aren't going to turn theirs in. Criminals aren't going to obey any gun laws period. We have lots of gun laws today, they need to be enforced, just as our immigration laws do.

[GandD 5,966]

I'm not an absolutist.

I am not for amnesty for illegals. I realize they can't all be deported, but I also feel that breaking the law shouldn't be rewarded, especially since many here have waited years to get through the process legally.

I am for harsh fines and penalties for American companies that knowingly hire illegals. I am for mandatory E-Verify. This will go a long way toward taking care of the problem.

I have no problem with having able bodied welfare and public benefit recipients to have to do some type of public work or service in order to receive their benefits. Why not have them clean up our streets, parks, etc? Or help with some type of schooling. I have no problem helping those in need, but they should make some effort and do their share too.

The Constitution give the right to keep and bear arms. Until it amended, that is how it is, like it or not. I personally have no problem being a licensed gun owner. I had to take a test to get my drivers license, I must take continuing ed courses to renew my construction and real estate licenses. I don't think it is an outrage for someone to have to demonstrate basic competency in order to purchase a gun. I don't think convicts or people arrested for assault or violent crimes, etc should be able to buy guns. Gun laws vary by state. Obey the laws of your state.

I don't think that all legal gun owners should be penalized for the actions of criminals. I also believe that if every legal gun owner turned in all of their guns, there would still be plenty of gun crimes on the street, because the criminals aren't going to turn theirs in. Criminals aren't going to obey any gun laws period. We have lots of gun laws today, they need to be enforced, just as our immigration laws do.

I knew you were better than that. What you've said, a good amount I can agree with. The rest I can respect. I wish this type of dialogue was more prevalent in our society.

[DavenRoxy 1,073]

I love the ineffectual, ignored posts in this thread the most.

Tying a gun to the owner isn't impossible, and not a bad idea. Heck, James Bond just did it! Unfortunately, there is no way to ensure the rightful owner is a good guy or deserves a gun.

Remember how this nation began, and the part guns played since the beginning. We may not be as bad as Quetta, but guns are here to stay. No getting around that fact.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

So when there's yet another school shooting, or someone loses the plot after going bankrupt and goes postal in the office - people should just salute the flag and praise the founding fathers?

Are you high?

Edited December 5, 2013 by Papa Lazarou