Obama visits immigration activits (split topic)

[Pooky 3,784]

What's the right way? I don't believe undocumented immigrants have little labels we can look at to ensure we target the right people so what's your cost effective solution to the overwhelming number of undocumented migrants who stay well on the right side of the law once they have entered the US? Bear in mind also that these people have the same rights as anyone on US soil, that's how the US does things. They don't remove your rights just because you have no legal documents. The process of law has to be followed. Currently ICE deports those that it can, who come to their attention because they commit a felony. That's a very slow and expensive train.

Any illegal aliens arrested should face deportation.

Businesses found to employ illegal aliens should face severe financial penalty, such that the employment of illegal aliens becomes untenable for these employers.

Reinforce the Border Patrols along the Southern Border and reinstate the cooperative programs that involve local law enforcement, to stem the flow of illegal immigrants across the border and deter future attempts.

Illegal immigration occurs because of the perceived opportunity here in the USA. Remove that perceived opportunity, and the flow will decrease and, in time, reverse.

Illegal immigration conveniently allows Washington and business to circumvent the dilemma of long-term unemployed US citizens, suppress wages and perpetuate an economic model that only increases the divide between the "haves" and "have nots." Business gains cheap labour, and the political party that panders most gains a voting bloc sufficient to affect national elections on a single-issue basis. Neither are good for the long-term future of the USA.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

It is important because Barack Obama is the President of the United States of America. This is the person that the majority of those who voted believed would act in the best interests of the citizens of the United States of America. Meeting with activists who advocate legalising anywhere between 12 and 20 million foreign nationals who entered this country illegally runs contrary to that ideal. That's why people care and that's why it is important.

The advocates are constituents too, with as much of a voice as you have. Again, the president meets with all sorts of people, so why does this have any significance other than what you chose to associate with it?

You're choosing to be offended.

The kenyan is a part of the "borderless global crowd "The UN can better handle things than a country. Undocumented workers tear apart the country ....you take away the foundation. When you have unrestricted masses of people entering any country in great quantities then the foundation crumbles. When perhaps 1/2 of the prison population is made up of undocumented democrats just having a little fun with our society .We have a problem. Streets become battle grounds ....death in every city over "control of a turf" Young children die or become maimed for life. You wake up in the morning and someone is dead and 4 others are in a hospital .... (requiring hundreds of thousands of Dollars of uninsured medical care ) Why did it happen????? Did someone from Sinaloa or Zetas drug cartel give that order. Often that answer is yes they did. . There are reasons why the bordering countries of a war zone have refugee camps.......Mass influx of undocumented people cause chaos in all societies.

More hysterical nonsense. Its a twitpic. Get a fecking grip!

Papa Lazarou already went through a legal immigration process, got his/her stuff, and is currently living outside of the USA, with no interest in maintaining any usa residency.

I find it 'fun' that he thinks to return to VJ and stir the pot this holiday season, as he's no interest in anything related to USA immigration.

So, bear that in mind as you are seeking real reasons to discount this fella's 'responses', aye?

---

Back on point - I completely agree with you, and I find it violently reprehensible that The Kenyan isn't surrounded by ICE police, shown apprehending the visitors / illegal aliens . ####### !

I'm glad you find it fun and that you know so much more about me than I care to know about you.

[Pooky 3,784]

You're choosing to be offended.

I choose to disagree with this President's choice of priorities and interpretation of duty

Any perceived offence on my part is purely a result of your overactive imagination.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

You've chosen to take issue with the president because someone took a photo of him at an informal meeting with some people you don't agree with.

I still don't understand what the big hooha is with this. If he was proposing actual legislation sure. This is just a photo.

[Hotter Otter 1,211]

When I see Obama make an effort to connect with those couples who are applying to be in the US legally and are waiting forever for their I-130's to be adjudicated because of the tangled web of incompetence that is USCIS and DACA then I will have a bit more support for this man!

Edited December 1, 2013 by Hotter Otter

[Pooky 3,784]

You've chosen to take issue with the president because someone took a photo of him at an informal meeting with some people you don't agree with.

I still don't understand what the big hooha is with this. If he was proposing actual legislation sure. This is just a photo.

So, the President doesn't fully endorse the 2013 Immigration Reform Bill, which was drafted around policy proposals he set out?

Interesting.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

So, the President doesn't fully endorse the 2013 Immigration Reform Bill, which was drafted around policy proposals he set out?

Interesting.

Are you asking me or telling me?

[Karee 4,190]

When I see Obama make an effort to connect with those couples who are applying to be in the US legally and are waiting forever for their I-130's to be adjudicated because of the tangled web of incompetence that is USCIS and DACA then I will have a bit more support for this man!

I think that is key. When they fix the LEGAL immigration system, then lets talk about the illegal immigrant issue.

[Peikko 1,575]

I think that is key. When they fix the LEGAL immigration system, then lets talk about the illegal immigrant issue.

From a political stand point that makes no sense. It may be a priority for those going through the process but in terms of a big political issue? Not even on the radar. Undocumented migrants are a big issue because it is known that there are substantial numbers of them in the US with all the inherent issues that that entrails. It's not as if the process for legal immigration doesn't work, it does. The fact that it takes several months is inconvenient certainly but to be honest I don't think that's a significant reason for a president to suddenly drop everything and rush off to 'fix' it.

[Karee 4,190]

From a political stand point that makes no sense. It may be a priority for those going through the process but in terms of a big political issue? Not even on the radar. Undocumented migrants are a big issue because it is known that there are substantial numbers of them in the US with all the inherent issues that that entrails. It's not as if the process for legal immigration doesn't work, it does. The fact that it takes several months is inconvenient certainly but to be honest I don't think that's a significant reason for a president to suddenly drop everything and rush off to 'fix' it.

Of course it doesn't make sense politically. That's why they don't care about it. It's the right thing to do though.

Hopefully the president wont have to "drop everything" to address an issue. Surely the guy can multi-task and address more than one issue at a time. At least I hope he can.

The bottom line is that any kind of amnesty or DACA or whatever they label it, is rewarding illegal behavior. Doesn't matter if the parents were the people that broke the law. Maybe the parents should face some kind of legal penalty for bringing these kids over here illegally in order for their children to gain some kind of legal status. If not, what's to stop an entire new generation of people breaking laws to bring their children here? .

[Peikko 1,575]

Any illegal aliens arrested should face deportation.

Businesses found to employ illegal aliens should face severe financial penalty, such that the employment of illegal aliens becomes untenable for these employers.

Reinforce the Border Patrols along the Southern Border and reinstate the cooperative programs that involve local law enforcement, to stem the flow of illegal immigrants across the border and deter future attempts.

Illegal immigration occurs because of the perceived opportunity here in the USA. Remove that perceived opportunity, and the flow will decrease and, in time, reverse.

Illegal immigration conveniently allows Washington and business to circumvent the dilemma of long-term unemployed US citizens, suppress wages and perpetuate an economic model that only increases the divide between the "haves" and "have nots." Business gains cheap labour, and the political party that panders most gains a voting bloc sufficient to affect national elections on a single-issue basis. Neither are good for the long-term future of the USA.

I am sure there are inefficiencies in the system but there is nothing about your suggestions that makes it clear how the current policies can be implemented differently and therefore more effectively than they are now. The laws are there as you have said, do you think that those tasked with implementing them are deliberately sabotaging these laws? I don't get why you think that the laws in place are not being enforced?

I also do not understand your last paragraph. I totally agree that allowing business to rely on undocumented migrant labor to sustain a business that is inherently not profitable is bad for the economy but suggesting that a) undocumented migrant labor is the main driver in the divide between the 'haves' and have nots' and b) that one of the political parties benefits in the voting booth so that's why 'nothing is done' is complete tosh.

The primary economic sector that uses undocumented migrant labor is agriculture and food production. The easiest way to 'fix' that is to allow these migrants seasonal and fixed term visas to enter the country legally to fill any positions that the indigenous population refuse to undertake. The issue is not that these sectors 'want' to use illegals because they are cheaper but that the work is there and no one wants to do it except undocumented migrants.

[Peikko 1,575]

Of course it doesn't make sense politically. That's why they don't care about it. It's the right thing to do though.

Hopefully the president wont have to "drop everything" to address an issue. Surely the guy can multi-task and address more than one issue at a time. At least I hope he can.

The bottom line is that any kind of amnesty or DACA or whatever they label it, is rewarding illegal behavior. Doesn't matter if the parents were the people that broke the law. Maybe the parents should face some kind of legal penalty for bringing these kids over here illegally in order for their children to gain some kind of legal status. If not, what's to stop an entire new generation of people breaking laws to bring their children here? .

What's the 'right thing to do'? The legal immigration system works. What do you want the president to address? I can't for the life of me see why it should be a presidential issue.

Bottom line, if you see the current proposals in terms of 'reward' then there is no pragmatic solution that you can accept. Nothing less than deportation will satisfy. Despite the popular mythology, being an undocumented migrant is not in itself a criminal offense and it's not likely to become one just to satisfy some desire to punish people who don't do immigration the 'right' way. Once you are in the US there is no way to distinguish how you happen to be without legal documents to remain.

While there is extreme poverty in the continental Americas some people will risk their lives to improve their situation and will attempt to enter the US. That's going to happen irrespective of whether the current crop are 'rewarded' or 'punished'.

[Karee 4,190]

What's the 'right thing to do'? The legal immigration system works. What do you want the president to address? I can't for the life of me see why it should be a presidential issue.

I guess the word "works" is subjective. I don't consider a process that is currently averaging 336 days from start to finish working. Maybe you do.

ETA:

So illegal immigration is a presidential issue, but legal immigration is not? Interesting.

Edited December 1, 2013 by Karee

[Peikko 1,575]

I guess the word "works" is subjective. I don't consider a process that is currently averaging 336 days from start to finish working. Maybe you do.

ETA:

So illegal immigration is a presidential issue, but legal immigration is not? Interesting.

Yes, I consider that's working.

There is a legal process to immigrate and it works, all be it somewhat slowly. The people who are illegible are moving through the system, there is nothing to fix. You could appoint more people to process applications if that is an issue but I expect it's not. What exactly should the president look at here?

Undocumented migrants is a problem that needs fixed. Are you saying that the president should just shove this issue under the rug and forget about it? That seems to be your attitude. The president should concern himself with trivialities, the efficacy with which the legal process works and ignore major issues like large numbers of people in the US without any status. That's illogical.

[Pooky 3,784]

I am sure there are inefficiencies in the system but there is nothing about your suggestions that makes it clear how the current policies can be implemented differently and therefore more effectively than they are now. The laws are there as you have said, do you think that those tasked with implementing them are deliberately sabotaging these laws? I don't get why you think that the laws in place are not being enforced?

ICE disagrees with you, or they would not have taken legal action against DACA. Their belief is that this Administration is enforcing current legislation in a very selective, politically expedient manner.

I also do not understand your last paragraph. I totally agree that allowing business to rely on undocumented migrant labor to sustain a business that is inherently not profitable is bad for the economy but suggesting that a) undocumented migrant labor is the main driver in the divide between the 'haves' and have nots' and b) that one of the political parties benefits in the voting booth so that's why 'nothing is done' is complete tosh.

It is one driver, the knock-on effects of which are felt far beyond the trades and industries that directly exploit the illegal immigrant labour pool. And if you believe that current policy efforts toward illegal immigration are not geared toward swaying the growing Latino population's voting preferences, then you are seriously kidding yourself.

The primary economic sector that uses undocumented migrant labor is agriculture and food production. The easiest way to 'fix' that is to allow these migrants seasonal and fixed term visas to enter the country legally to fill any positions that the indigenous population refuse to undertake. The issue is not that these sectors 'want' to use illegals because they are cheaper but that the work is there and no one wants to do it except undocumented migrants.

The "fix" that no-one wants to consider is reforming the unemployment and welfare system to redirect the unemployed US citizens into these jobs they "refuse to undertake." Restructure benefits to incentivise employment, so that it becomes economically advantageous to work, regardless of the position, and people will reconsider remaining unemployed.