how have your RUB wifes changed if any since coming here

[Amy_and_Victor 159]

- It's Victor from Russia

Basic qualities, for example, being family oriented as opposed to career oriented, and materialistic.. keeping traditional values and ideals such as everyone eating at the table together and discussing their day, appreciating and loving their man instead of talking bad about him behind his back or just using him as an easy ride. keeping pride in their dressing ethics like Gary said above, dressing nice out in public not wearing pajamas or sweats in public.. eating a healthy diet and getting proper exercise to look good for their man. In fairness a man should make a sincere effort to look good for his Lady as well.

I'm a Russian guy so I'll tell my opinion about "basic qualities" from your post. You know, it's very individual and it's no reason to paint with a wide brush. Starting from the first, in RUB not every woman is family oriented. Many women there, especially in big cities, now career oriented as well and often don't want to settle down or even think about kids at least until 30 if not much later, they appreciate their freedom and independance. Idk why you told about being materialistic, RUB women are materialistic as well if not more. Of course not everybody, but not everybody here either.

Everybody sitting around the table and talking about how day went - it reminds me something from really oldie times. Many families in RUB don't do it anymore.

"appreciating and loving their man instead of talking bad about him behind his back or just using him as an easy ride" - Again it's very personal, and in RUB it's plenty of women who just want an "easy ride" like in the US it's plenty of loving and appretiating women. I could give plenty of real examples with Russian couples I personally know where guy got screwed because girl didn't give a damn about him and he was just a wallet for her, but I don't want to shake dirty laundry of people I know well here.

Dressing nice - yes, it's the first thing I'll admit is truth. In RUB many girls woudn't go to bread kiosk across the street without makeup and high heels. But situation at home is often different. RUB women care a lot about how they look at public but they don't care even as much as half of it how they look at home, especially after few years of marriage and having kids. The reason is simple - they dress up not for their husband, they dress up for public, because in RUB "what will people say?" is verycommon magic and misterious phrase. Here people take it easy and often wearing what is comfy and don't care if it looks like not a nice clothes. Again, I'm not painting with wide brush, it also can be individual.

Healthy diet - partially agree. I wouldn't call it necessary healthy, I would rather tell that here too many people eat too unhealthy. Too many fast foods, too large portions everywhere, too many sugar and corn syrup in most of the food, soups thick as a stew, desserts have enormous amount of calories, too many huge packs of food with no normal size substitutes... Just eating normal homemade food is already healthy comparing to how many people eat in the US, that's the problem.

Just my 2 cents, no offence to anybody.

I remember my father telling me 30 some years ago that a woman will go out of her way to look good to catch a man but after marriage and baby then she does not worry that much any more. many women get overweight after marriage and children and consider a man keeping her to avoid losing his child and getting caught in the child/ spousal support trap that many women use. now I am not specifying any one nation for this but some of the more westernized nations this is a lot more prevalent.

It's nothing new for RUB either, very common situation there. From many women in RUB you would hear phrase "I'm the mother of your kids!" and this argument supposed to finish any arguments about unappealing old bathrobe or always messed up hair.

The only difference is that in RUB in at least 9 cases of 10 children will stay with mother (full custody) and child support she can get from ex is little to nothing. So in case of divorse with kids if husband wants to be an a-hole, he most likely can start a new life with no "tails" and his ex-wife will turn into broken single mother with almost no support.

Edited December 2, 2013 by Amy_and_Victor

[SMR 368]

I like what Victor said about this being individual. I didn't marry Marina looking for a Russian and didn't see her as fundamentally different from American girls, just because she was Russian. When it comes to a discussion of traditional views, it's hard for me to compartmentalize since we're Mormons and Marina is Russian. Additionally, most of the American girls that I dated were Mormon, too, so my baseline is a little different. On the other hand, Marina never went to school in the USSR, so perhaps she grew up with more Western influence than most older RUB women. I guess that is a long way of saying that my experience probably isn't typical, but that I don't really think that typical actually exists.

I would second a lot of the functional changes that happen as someone becomes Americanized as they relate to language, driving, women management, and living arrangements. That's sort of unavoidable. As far as traditional gender roles, personal hygiene and grooming, fashion choices, and sexual proclivities, I wouldn't expect those things to change based on Americanization necessarily. However, they aren't universal in RUB to begin with and can typically be expected to change with time and life changes such as marriage and children.

[baron555 934]

No real change in myself and my wife....but we both have adopted each other's better traits.

I personally think this "cultural differences" is way overblown. Yes there are basic life and living differences but in the end we both lived very parallel types of lives....just went about it dfferentley.

[highlander08 9]

Thanks everyone for your thoughts and input.. just more reason I am glad I decided to look In FSU. Anybody heard about the revolution in Ukraine. ??

[Hin-d 16]

You mean the one that began with Russia's economic warfare?

[highlander08 9]

yes. sounds like Ukraine's pres is a pawn rootin for putin.

[Hin-d 16]

yes. sounds like Ukraine's pres is a pawn rootin for putin.

In truth, I think Yanukovych's change of heart was probably more for personal reasons. Integration into the EU would likely prompt an investigation into his abuse of power! His son is one of the 100 richest men in Ukraine....who knew that a University trained dentist could acheive such a feat! There are many more examples of his political corruption; too numerous to mention!

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

yes. sounds like Ukraine's pres is a pawn rootin for putin.

Rootin for Putin!

Alla is from Donetsk. 'nuff said.

We are going there in 22 days. Hope it is calmed down. Though we will be in Kharkov.

As for the topic...of course women and men are individuals and not ALL Ukrainian women are "traditional" as described. Not all Ukrainian men are drunk abusive jerks. I lived there and dated lots of non-traditional Ukrainian women and really only wanted to marry Alla. So, NO, they are not all the same.

There exists the greater possibility of meeting such women in a culture in which that quality is more common. The biggest difference, and again it does not apply to ALL women, is that Ukrainian women generally have the belief that men and women are DIFFERENT and each has a distinct and equally valuable ROLE in a marriage and family. Just because a woman has that basic belief does not mean she is an ideal wife for every man. There are more facets to a personality to be sure.

When Alla arrived, it was when K-1s could still work right away because they had not clarified the I-9 thing. She got a job in a mall store to acclimate herself and use her English. One night the manager, a man, told another girl to take out the trash. The girl was taking out the trash and Alla ordered her to "STOP! what are you doing? You have not had your babies yet, why are you doing this man's work?" She then went to the manager and told him to "Stand up from your @ss and take out the trash, it is not for a woman to do this!" She got fired. When I picked her up she came out to the car and said "I think I am fired". Yeah, I think so. But the concept of each having a role in a marriage is valid, I think.

Did I mention I like her directness also?

I find the basic beliefs and qualities to be very attractive and appealing to me.

We are all lucky guys!

[AmyWrites 593]

I can't help but chuckle that people think Russian women are not materialistic. Maybe it's because I lived far too long in wealthy-as-heck Moscow, studying at a university which caters to the best-connected in Moscow, and Moscow is very different from Russia, but women commonly want to marry/be a mistress just for money, and prefer to live with their parents or in a bad flat if it means being able to afford designer clothes, bags, and shoes, and generally they harshly judge others who do not have the same expensive things they do. The obsession with beauty makes for a very vain and materialistic group of females who will spend a lot of money on appearance; something you'll enjoy while looking at the girls in Russia but marrying into it is a different story. It's why I recommend any of my male friends looking to marry an Eastern European girl to look into Belarus, Ukraine, or Russian cities that are NOT Moscow or St. Pete.

Back to topic. My husband has changed in a way he didn't expect; he has higher expectations about everything. Like, he gets annoyed at bad infrastructure. He believes he can "climb up the ladder" and doesn't have to be stuck in the same ####### position forever like in Russia. He complains if he gets a bad waiter or if a product he buys is broken, he'll return it. American dream indeed, he finally feels like things can progress.

Edited December 7, 2013 by AmyWrites

[TBoneTX 45,091]

Re: Moscow vs. other areas. When I forswore American chicas (on 1 April 2006, no foolin'), I corresponded fruitfully with the chief of a matchmaking agency for Siberian chicas. During the communication, he said that Siberian chicas tended to be more real and less materialistic than Muscovite chicas and others from the western cities. Had the cost, distance, and language-barrier factors not scared me off, I'd have considered investigating that route.

Is his statement fairly true about Siberian chicas?

[Neonred 3,553]

Kind of like comparing girls from LA or NYC to girls from Peoria or Topeka.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

I can't help but chuckle that people think Russian women are not materialistic. Maybe it's because I lived far too long in wealthy-as-heck Moscow, studying at a university which caters to the best-connected in Moscow, and Moscow is very different from Russia, but women commonly want to marry/be a mistress just for money, and prefer to live with their parents or in a bad flat if it means being able to afford designer clothes, bags, and shoes, and generally they harshly judge others who do not have the same expensive things they do. The obsession with beauty makes for a very vain and materialistic group of females who will spend a lot of money on appearance; something you'll enjoy while looking at the girls in Russia but marrying into it is a different story. It's why I recommend any of my male friends looking to marry an Eastern European girl to look into Belarus, Ukraine, or Russian cities that are NOT Moscow or St. Pete.

Back to topic. My husband has changed in a way he didn't expect; he has higher expectations about everything. Like, he gets annoyed at bad infrastructure. He believes he can "climb up the ladder" and doesn't have to be stuck in the same ####### position forever like in Russia. He complains if he gets a bad waiter or if a product he buys is broken, he'll return it. American dream indeed, he finally feels like things can progress.

I think younger women are materialistic, much more so than Alla's generation. Alla finished college and worked during the Soviet Union. It was still the Soviet Union when her first son was born.

Is Alla materialistic? Yes. She is a very frugal materialistic and she can go without it. Given the chance she buys a new item of clothes or shoes at least once a week. Her car has to be clean, her house has to be clean, she has to be looking good. All associated with her is supposed to "look good". Is that materialistic? I think so. She does not spend a lot of money to look good. Most Ukrainian women do not have a lot of money to spend, but they look good. I am not a woman but I assure you she has more combinations of clothes than you can imagine. She will buy a skirt and say "I can wear it with this, and this and this" She can wear the same skirt every day for a week and you never know it because she changes her scarf or blouse. I think she is very creative and...frugal. She gets all sorts of "deals" on her cosmetics and lots of "free gifts" when she buys this or that. She even tells me NOT to buy her cosmetics as I cannot possibly know how to get such good deals. I will spend too much, no doubt. Whatever.

Can she live happily while having to stand in line to buy two lemons? YES. Does she need to? Not anymore. I do not think a person's personality is shaped so much by the what you see today but by what they have been trained for and what they can endure. Can a Navy SEAL endure more hardship than me? You bet! Does he always? No.

Look, Alla rode public transport forever and never complained. Now she complains the public transport smells bad.

The basic premise that she enjoys her role as wife/mother/woman is the same.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Re: Moscow vs. other areas. When I forswore American chicas (on 1 April 2006, no foolin'), I corresponded fruitfully with the chief of a matchmaking agency for Siberian chicas. During the communication, he said that Siberian chicas tended to be more real and less materialistic than Muscovite chicas and others from the western cities. Had the cost, distance, and language-barrier factors not scared me off, I'd have considered investigating that route.

Is his statement fairly true about Siberian chicas?

Spanish is easier to learn also.

There is a hierarchy...

Muscovites, Russians, Ukrainians...basically in that order. Russians tell Alla, "you speak really good Russian, for a Ukrainian" Definitely city women and village women are different. There is a huge difference in lifestyle between the locations in the FSU unlike the USA. A rural a=family in the USA has s similar house to s city family...at least as far as utilities, reliability etc. This is not at all the same in Ukraine or Russia where city women are afraid of rural areas. No kidding...I sent Alla photos of my "indoor kitchen and toilet" to assure her that even though I did not live in a big city, I had an "inside toilet"

I remember her telling me that she visited a "small city" for her business (I forget the name)

"How small?"

Oh, maybe 1/2 the size of Donetsk, not more

"So...700,000 people?"

Something like that.

Er...the whole state of Vermont is less than that.!!!! She still calls Burlington the "improved village of Burlington" But now she won;t leave. She loves it and says she likes that it is quiet, not crowded and we can go to Montreal or Boston when we want...even to NYC.

She LOVES going to Ukraine (3 weeks from now) but is ready to come home very quickly after we arrive. I think she loves her native country, native language, her friends and many of the feelings she gets. She hates the stairs to the flat, hates the "smelly" trams and buses and the intermittent untilities. She hates not having her car, the car is the "freedom machine". Go anywhere anytime, no stops.

[TBoneTX 45,091]

1. Spanish is easier to learn also.

2. She still calls Burlington the "improved village of Burlington"

3. the car is the "freedom machine"

1. Si, man, but I still haven't undertaken organized study, no man. Whenever I try to say anything to a native speaker, they look alarmed and urgently point me to the nearest bathroom.

2. , man

3. And the self-propelled closet, si man.

Kind of like comparing girls from LA or NYC to girls from Peoria or Topeka.

Perfect. Got it, si man.

[TBoneTX 45,091]

No real change in myself and my wife...

Actually, one change that I've noticed in Mrs. T-B. is this: At first, she would never screw screw-tops (on medicine bottles, cooking-oil bottles, etc.) all the way back on. Now, she's better at it. Perhaps this is in reaction to having Mini-Bone toddling around, rather than an evolution as a ciudadana Americana (female American citizen).

Edited December 9, 2013 by TBoneTX