Healthcare.gov worked for me!

[unsmiley 111]

All taxation is redistributive so I assume you're opposed to taxation in general.

Yes.

Not opposed to taxation, as long as EVERYBODY pays, and EVERYBODY pays the same percent, WITHOUT ANY deductions. That is the only way it is fair and just.

[mota bhai 2,675]

Not opposed to taxation, as long as EVERYBODY pays, and EVERYBODY pays the same percent, WITHOUT ANY deductions. That is the only way it is fair and just.

I get the emotional appeal of such a system, but surely you see how that even that is redistributive? Not every taxpayer is going to derive equal value out of the things the government spends money on. Road warriors will drive more and fly more, for example, deriving more value than you from government investments in the highway system and the FAA. Even if everyone pays an equal amount, there is no possibility at all of ensuring that everyone derives equal value from the investment, therefore even a flat tax would be redistributive.

[Rich and Wen 101]

First of all, do not put words in my mouth. Where did I say it was evil? YOU said it was evil in your response. Actually I think wealth redistribution is disgusting, abhorrent, and never justifiable but I never said it was evil. Just love how the liberals make up words, and end up pontificating on them, when they are the ones that used such words!!

Oh, maybe you did not pay attention in your economics classes, so I'll will take this opportunity to teach you something: Commerce is the voluntary exchange of money for something of value to the purchaser. And a two way street. Weath redistribution is coercisive, and is nothing other than THEFT.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Hmmmm "disgusting, abhorrent and unjustifiable". Sounds like a reasonable definition of evil to me, happy to discuss why you think that isn't the case.

Yes I know you didn't use the word "unjustifiable", you said "never justifiable". Maybe there's a huge gulf of meaning between the two that I wasn't previously aware of?

Edited November 28, 2013 by Papa Lazarou

[Rich and Wen 101]

First of all, do not put words in my mouth. Where did I say it was evil? YOU said it was evil in your response. Actually I think wealth redistribution is disgusting, abhorrent, and never justifiable but I never said it was evil. Just love how the liberals make up words, and end up pontificating on them, when they are the ones that used such words!!

Oh, maybe you did not pay attention in your economics classes, so I'll will take this opportunity to teach you something: Commerce is the voluntary exchange of money for something of value to the purchaser. And a two way street. Weath redistribution is coercisive, and is nothing other than THEFT.

Commerce is also theft, and wealth redistribution on a grand scale. Commerce has taken the wealth (clean air, clean water, pristine landscape) that belongs to everyone in this country, and used it for their own benefit without paying fair market value for it. The list is long (and far from complete): zebra mussels, kudzu, buckthorn, Mediterranean fruit fly, Asian longhorn beetle, petcoke pollution, Asian carp, Dutch elm disease, gypsy moth, acid rain, Love Canal, the fungus decimating Florida's orange crops, and numerous others that I can't think of at the moment.

Do you feel the same disgust, abhorrence, and lack of justification now?

And now, having made their money off the resources belonging to us all, begrudge the taxes necessary to clean it up and operate the country for everyone's benefit?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Evil would have been a better word to have used actually. Far less specific:

What's specifically disgusting, abhorrent and unjustifiable about wealth distribution if you apply it to concepts like commerce and taxation? Presumably there are examples of wealth distribution that are more disgusting, abhorrent and unjustifiable than others.

Let me guess - the welfare state and subsidised healthcare

[Peikko 1,575]

First of all, do not put words in my mouth. Where did I say it was evil? YOU said it was evil in your response. Actually I think wealth redistribution is disgusting, abhorrent, and never justifiable but I never said it was evil. Just love how the liberals make up words, and end up pontificating on them, when they are the ones that used such words!!

Oh, maybe you did not pay attention in your economics classes, so I'll will take this opportunity to teach you something: Commerce is the voluntary exchange of money for something of value to the purchaser. And a two way street. Weath redistribution is coercisive, and is nothing other than THEFT.

Oh dear. Wealth redistribution is wealth redistribution, you have chosen to give it a special meaning without defining exactly what that meaning is. Therefore, I have to tell you that you are wrong. Commerce is wealth redistribution. You can call it 'good' wealth distribution if you want to, that's your choice but it's not an objective evaluation.

By the by, to suggest that commerce is 'voluntary' is a huge stretch. Commerce is a monopoly, there is no choice but to participate and within the monopoly many inequities exist. Who knew?

Evil would have been a better word to have used actually. Far less specific:

What's specifically disgusting, abhorrent and unjustifiable about wealth distribution if you apply it to concepts like commerce and taxation? Presumably there are examples of wealth distribution that are more disgusting, abhorrent and unjustifiable than others.

Let me guess - the welfare state and subsidised healthcare

It is interesting what happens when you ask someone to be specific about their views rather than relying on these non specific meaningless catch phrases.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I think reliance on soundbites and catchphrases has as much if not more to do with a lack of education than it does with a lack of political engagement.

It's why so many Americans (at least on here) are so derisive of college level education, writing it off as a liberal propaganda.

Its worrying, because enough people (educated or otherwise) vote without fully considering the choices available to them. People who's arguments are rooted in jingoism and nationalism are very dangerous. People like that elected Hitler.

[unsmiley 111]

Evil would have been a better word to have used actually. Far less specific:

What's specifically disgusting, abhorrent and unjustifiable about wealth distribution if you apply it to concepts like commerce and taxation? Presumably there are examples of wealth distribution that are more disgusting, abhorrent and unjustifiable than others.

Let me guess - the welfare state and subsidised healthcare

It is not about which would have been a better word. My point, which obviously flew over your head, was simply that I did not use that word - somebody put that word in my mouth and then criticized it.

Commerce is also theft, and wealth redistribution on a grand scale. Commerce has taken the wealth (clean air, clean water, pristine landscape) that belongs to everyone in this country, and used it for their own benefit without paying fair market value for it. The list is long (and far from complete): zebra mussels, kudzu, buckthorn, Mediterranean fruit fly, Asian longhorn beetle, petcoke pollution, Asian carp, Dutch elm disease, gypsy moth, acid rain, Love Canal, the fungus decimating Florida's orange crops, and numerous others that I can't think of at the moment.

Do you feel the same disgust, abhorrence, and lack of justification now?

And now, having made their money off the resources belonging to us all, begrudge the taxes necessary to clean it up and operate the country for everyone's benefit?

Don't begrudge the taxes necessary to run the country for everyone's benefit, although the government collects way to much in taxes, much more than it needs. Do begrudge the approximate 50% of the country paying NO Federal incomes taxes at all. They are the freeloaders you should be railing against. We ALL need to contribute to run this country fairly.

I think reliance on soundbites and catchphrases has as much if not more to do with a lack of education than it does with a lack of political engagement.

It's why so many Americans (at least on here) are so derisive of college level education, writing it off as a liberal propaganda.

Its worrying, because enough people (educated or otherwise) vote without fully considering the choices available to them. People who's arguments are rooted in jingoism and nationalism are very dangerous. People like that elected Hitler.

There you go again, using typical liberal nonsense, introducing "Hitler" into what (I thought) was a somewhat intellectual discussion. My mistake.

And what makes you think that just because people don't vote the way you would like, they do not understand their choices? Liberal elites simply think they know better than everyone. Just like the president saying, when he was consistently confronted about Obamacare's unpopularity: "We just haven't gotten our message out properly." The problem is we got the message loud and clear. It sucked and everyone knew it.

[Peikko 1,575]

It is not about which would have been a better word. My point, which obviously flew over your head, was simply that I did not use that word - somebody put that word in my mouth and then criticized it.

Don't begrudge the taxes necessary to run the country for everyone's benefit, although the government collects way to much in taxes, much more than it needs. Do begrudge the approximate 50% of the country paying NO Federal incomes taxes at all. They are the freeloaders you should be railing against. We ALL need to contribute to run this country fairly.

There you go again, using typical liberal nonsense, introducing "Hitler" into what (I thought) was a somewhat intellectual discussion. My mistake.

And what makes you think that just because people don't vote the way you would like, they do not understand their choices? Liberal elites simply think they know better than everyone. Just like the president saying, when he was consistently confronted about Obamacare's unpopularity: "We just haven't gotten our message out properly." The problem is we got the message loud and clear. It sucked and everyone knew it.

Intellectual? Suggesting that the weak deserve to die because it's 'nature's way' and that the US has become weak because it takes care of the less fortunate, weaker members of society is not an intellectual argument. It's extreme and thoughtless.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

"Liberal elites". Wonderful.

If you use words that mean the same thing as other words, getting hung up on semantics is rather stupid. The sense of what you said is exactly the same even if you didn't use the exact words. You can Arthur about little details if you want. Personally I think it is rather silly.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Intellectual? Suggesting that the weak deserve to die because it's 'nature's way' and that the US has become weak because it takes care of the less fortunate, weaker members of society is not an intellectual argument. It's extreme and thoughtless.

Actually in fairness he/she did not day that. That was another poster in a different thread.

The guy did say that wealth distribution is basically evil though. He just wants to argue that the exact words he said can't be basically summed up by the word "evil"

[Peikko 1,575]

Actually in fairness he/she did not day that. That was another poster in a different thread.

The guy did say that wealth distribution is basically evil though. He just wants to argue that the exact words he said can't be basically summed up by the word "evil"

You are right, I am wrong and I unreservedly apologise to Unsmiley for making an error and accusing him of making statements he did not make.

Edited November 30, 2013 by The Truth™

[Teddy B 17,252]

Glad to see poverty paying dividends to you. Stealing the fruits of another via the government must be so satisfying.

I would thank you but I don't think you've ever made 250K so thanks for nuthin you freeloader.

I'm a little late to this party, but that was damn funny!

[Darnell 8,479]

I'm a little late to this party, but that was damn funny!

You should be very proud o AraJit - he helped his Auntie by signing her up on healthcare.gov and she qualified for a lot of free shyt!!!