Why the Vitriol toward those who follow K-1 procedures.

[indiana_sweetie 120]

Leon & Mylen your signature almost made me smack my screen!!

Ok

[Harpa Timsah 13,258]

The thing with the current climate of I-130 frustration is that it is based mostly on misinformation and blaming. I do have empathy for March filers who are not yet approved. It looks like they will wait 8 months which is longer than normal. That sucks, but at least, they are almost there.

But many others who just filed don't understand immigration. It is frustrating that the USCIS site has a date in 2012, but it's not true. And the cry "there is no end in sight!"from very new petitioners isn't true either. They probably won't wait very long. The wait is not doomed to be compounded on top of eachother, which is something I don't think people understand. One of these days, I-130s are going to pick up speed and they will approve a ton in a short span of time. When the I-129Fs were at 7-8 months, USCIS picked up and approved around 4 months worth in a week or two. The same will happen to I-130s, and I expect soon. New filers will not have to wait years for a NOA2.

It's just chance, it does suck, but blaming others, or trying to say you are better and worth more because you are married, and many other nasty comments have been coming out of certain poster's mouths, are just gross.

[Teddy B 17,252]

The thing with the current climate of I-130 frustration is that it is based mostly on misinformation and blaming. I do have empathy for March filers who are not yet approved. It looks like they will wait 8 months which is longer than normal. That sucks, but at least, they are almost there.

But many others who just filed don't understand immigration. It is frustrating that the USCIS site has a date in 2012, but it's not true. And the cry "there is no end in sight!"from very new petitioners isn't true either. They probably won't wait very long. The wait is not doomed to be compounded on top of eachother, which is something I don't think people understand. One of these days, I-130s are going to pick up speed and they will approve a ton in a short span of time. When the I-129Fs were at 7-8 months, USCIS picked up and approved around 4 months worth in a week or two. The same will happen to I-130s, and I expect soon. New filers will not have to wait years for a NOA2.

It's just chance, it does suck, but blaming others, or trying to say you are better and worth more because you are married, and many other nasty comments have been coming out of certain poster's mouths, are just gross.

Spot on as usual Harpa.

I still think the op has his designations mixed up as far as who is giving who a hard time. But either way we all have the same goal in mind and that's to be with the people we love. Arguing and bickering amongst ourselves over who is more worthy of a visa is nothing but counterproductive.

[r060106 109]

But many others who just filed don't understand immigration. It is frustrating that the USCIS site has a date in 2012, but it's not true. And the cry "there is no end in sight!"from very new petitioners isn't true either. They probably won't wait very long. The wait is not doomed to be compounded on top of eachother, which is something I don't think people understand. One of these days, I-130s are going to pick up speed and they will approve a ton in a short span of time. When the I-129Fs were at 7-8 months, USCIS picked up and approved around 4 months worth in a week or two. The same will happen to I-130s, and I expect soon. New filers will not have to wait years for a NOA2.

How many months did it take for USCIS to begin to clear the backlog of I-129Fs, from the time the delay started ballooning to the time it started sharply decreasing? Please educate me.

[Novembro 1,763]

I think what it equates to at the end of the day is that we are all going through the same anxiety, stress and worry!!!! Some more than others.

Basically this. It's easy to be annoyed with other's joy when you are so obsessed with your own unhappiness.

[inlovesalem 17]

To OP, do it the right way and go back to own Country? How is THAT the ONLY RIGHT way? If adjusting status from within US, was the WRONG way, it wouldn't be available... you kinda have it backwards, it's concurrent filers who get crapped on the most around here... threats of frauding the system etc without even knowing the story behind the adjustment *steps off my soapbox*

[PalmTrees 34]

I have seen some vitriol towards K-1 applicants from CR-1 applicants but to be honest I think most of it was called for. If you have been waiting for months and months with no activity, then to have someone pop up saying "my petition was approved in only 17 days! hang in there, just be patient and I'm sure yours will be around the corner!" must be the most frustrating thing in the world. Like waving a red flag at a bull, of course you are going to get attacked. Its a form of gloating and shouldn't be posted. People should be aware that the process is different for everyone, and to be sensitive towards others feelings and wait times.

I have had to remind myself not to get angry when I saw people with similar filing dates getting approved before me, and mine only took 49 days to go through. It is ridiculous to complain about wait times, when it could have been much much worse. If we had filed earlier in the year it could have been stuck in Vermont for 6 months, so I'm grateful it has turned out the way it did. However, I have still complained (and mentally kicked myself for it), so can understand why people get angry. Your wait will always seem like nothing from people waiting longer than you.

I don't approve of the sometimes "high-and-mighty" approach spousal visa members take towards fiance visa members. At the end of the day, people choose to go different routes for different reasons. I chose fiance route because I didn't want to spend the first few months of our lives as husband and wife apart. I really don't care if people read this and think "oh they are just engaged, we are better". If people have that attitude, fine. Doesn't affect my relationship in the slightest, and maybe some would do well to think of it like that, instead of getting a bit catty.

The two processes seem vastly different, so I really don't see the point of visiting the CR-1 forum. I would have no information or advice to offer because I'm not familiar with that process. I'm not saying don't visit other forums, just saying that the two are different and should be treated as such, and that you can be more beneficial in your designated forum.

I do see vitriol directed towards people intending to AOS. I've seen a number of posts where the poster asks if there would be implications in following this route and how to go about it. Some people read between the lines and see intent where there is none, yet some posters do have intent to come in as a tourist and not leave and act like this is legal. It is not. Even when advised that what they would be doing is immigration fraud by the most senior poster out there, they simply shrug it off and go for it anyway. It's like talking to a brick wall.

I agree that AOS can be used as it is a legal option. But it is an option for a few, not everyone. For example, I had a friend following the CR-1 route, she went to visit and then found out that her living circumstances changed and it would be extremely difficult for her to go back and could potentially bankrupt her. Her lawyer withdrew the spousal application and filed for AOS, which went off without a hitch. I believe in this case AOS was appropriate as it made more sense for her to stay with her husband rather than having a nightmare back in the UK.

On the flip side, I have another "friend" who I believe really did commit immigration fraud. She sold her flat, car, belongings, quit her job, cancelled direct debits and closed down bank accounts. She told everyone she was going to visit her fiance for three months and be back afterwards. In the meantime she was messaging me saying the reason she had got rid of everything was because she wasn't coming back, and that I should just file for AOS like they would be doing. I pointed out that this was wrong, fraud, could lead to a ban, you name it, I tried to convince her what she was doing was wrong. She mocked the K-1 process (or even the suggestion of the CR-1) and said I should "do it her way because it is easiest". She did not listen, went ahead and filed and was just fine. She is now living in the states like she always dreamed of, with a husband no one knows anything about.

At the end of the day, people will most often just do what they want, whether they are advised against it or aware it is illegal. Once people have an idea in their heads they will stick to it. With the second friend, at first I was very angry and it made the time me and my fiance spent apart even more hurtful because she could wait out the process with her loved one, where I was thousands of miles away from mine. She, like many others, had abused the system. But then I learnt to let it go. She abused the system to get what she wanted, but I believe one day karma will catch up with her, like others, but reward the many thousands of us who go through the correct legal channels.

If you AOS for the right reason then that is completely fine as it is legal and congratulations that you skipped the wait. If you AOS for the wrong reasons then you should not come looking for sympathy on these boards, because people (and yourself) know you did wrong. Hopefully one day the AOS system will be cleared up so only people who had no intent can use it, but who knows if that is likely.

Sorry for the HUGE post. I guess what I wanted to say is that there are different options for everyone and we should all be respectful and mindful of these choices. Follow the rules and appreciate that many others have a longer, more difficult situation than yourself. As long as you are following the rules, everyone is different yet equal.

Have a good day everyone

[B & G 200]

Well explain this then:

When I was grilled by an immigration officer coming in to see my girlfriend, and I told him we had no plan to marry and adjust, THAT WENT AGAINST ME. That was what set off all the alarm bells. He just didn't want me coming in on a tourist visa and overstaying without adjusting it. Then when I backed down and said "okay, we'll marry and adjust", he called my girlfriend to ask if she had any plans to marry me (which she couldn't confirm). He would have been perfectly happy had I told him we were going to marry and then she'd confirmed that on the phone. All he wanted to know was that our relationship was legitimate, that we planned to marry and pursue the correct visa, and that I wasn't working illegally on a tourist visa. Had I said we planned to marry (on the tourist visa) and I had proved that via a phone call from my girlfriend, he was prepared to let me through no problems.

You all have this "intent" issue wrong. It's the intent to come in on a tourist visa and ACTIVELY LOOK FOR A WIFE to abuse the system.

Let me remind you of what you posted in a thread you, yourself created.. http://www.visajourney.com/forums/topic/465883-my-story-should-i-marry-while-in-the-usa/

Well it took me 2 hours to convince him that, and he only let me in after stipulating that I leave in Dec and pursue a fiance visa. On the other hand, my passport is stamped until January, and I doubt what he said is set in stone anywhere. It gives me hope to hear people say I can AOS. Thanks.

You are now saying that the only reason the CBP officer let you in was because you promised to marry your girlfriend??!!

The "intent" as you mentioned before is not for a "sham marriage" but the "intent to migrate".

Don't change the facts to suit your own situation, it is misguiding to others.

Here is the official statement of the US Customs and Border Protection.

http://www.cbp.gov/xp/cgov/travel/id_visa/study_exchange/difference_visa_adrecord.xml

Visa Free Travel

U.S. policy permits citizens of certain countries as identified below to travel to the United States without a visa. The Visa Waiver Program (VWP) permits nationals from designated countries to apply for admission to the United States for 90 days or less as nonimmigrant visitors for business or pleasure without first obtaining a U.S. nonimmigrant visa.

At the time of application for admission, a VWP applicant must:

• Be in possession of a round-trip ticket that will transport the individual out of the United States to any other foreign port or place as long as the trip does not terminate in contiguous territory or an ; except that the round trip ticket may transport the traveler to contiguous territory or an , if the traveler is a resident of the country of destination or if arriving at a land border, provide evidence of financial solvency and a domicile abroad to which the traveler intends to return;
• Be arriving on designated carrier that is signatory to a Visa Waiver Program Agreement, if applicable;
• Have a machine-readable passport valid for 6 months beyond the period of intended stay, or essentially 9 months (90 days + 6 months). The Department of State's 6-month list extending the validity of certain foreign passports can be found on the Department of State Website. ( Countries with Agreements with the United States to Extend Passport Validity for an Additional Six Months ) (A traveler with an expired passport is ineligible for VWP admission); and,
• Complete an Arrival/Departure Form I-94W. Travelers arriving at a land border will be required to pay the required Form I-94W processing fee.

In addition, VWP visitors may not file an application to change status to an immigrant or another nonimmigrant classification or extend their stay beyond the 90-day timeframe. VWP applicants waive their right to proceedings before an Immigration Judge, unless they make an asylum application.

[Leo7777 243]

Just to clarify my original intent a little, and update to include some learning. And yes, I am still learning

As I understand it, there are basically three groups here doing the marriage to non-USA citizens bit.

K-1 Filing for partner to be allowed to enter USA and marriage within 90 days.

IR-1 / CR-1 Marriage occurs outside USA and then file for partner to be allowed to enter USA.

Marry within USA to someone who is on a visitors or student visa (or H type, etc.) and then file for AOS.

My main point was that those in the 3rd category have a HUGE advantage over the first two categories . . . they are with their loved ones during the entire process, regardless of how long the process takes.

It is my contention and feeling that those in the 3rd category should give the other two categories a HUGE amount of slack in their responses . . . even when those in the first two categories say hurtful things toward them.

Everyone is waiting for various time periods. But some are waiting with warm bodies in their beds.

Note: I am not aware of the bad feelings between K-1 and IR-1/CR-1 folks, and my thread was not intended to address that issue.

[Teddy B 17,252]

It is my contention and feeling that those in the 3rd category should give the other two categories a HUGE amount of slack in their responses . . . even when those in the first two categories say hurtful things toward them.

Ok Dr. Phil.

[Hotter Otter 1,211]

It's hard to show empathy when the choice of visa means you are open to attacks, relationship is attacked as lesser because the marriage will happen after the visa. Empathy posts shot down because how can your wait for your K1 give you any idea about spousal waits. Posts about trying to do petitions or get the word out attacked because the poster just filed and hasn't suffered the wait so who are they to be outraged at the potential wait? Just because we haven't been through the wait doesn't mean we have no idea what it's like. I'm sure we understand more than a random person who has never dealt with the immigration system or been forced to be apart because of any wait. My heart hurts seeing the wait times for spousal visas and I would love to do what I can to help. The problem is my empathy will be attacked because my wait was only 5 months and I filed K1, my help is unwanted because I didn't do spousal or wait +1 years, and my relationship will be insulted because I'm not yet married.

Well if you aren't happy about the responses that your empathy is getting then you will have to stop posting in CR1 threads I'm afraid. I'm sure that like me most of the posters appreciate the empathy and useful ideas some people may have but there are obviously a minority who respond badly, just as there are some K1 filers who are trying to get a reaction. Don't take the "attacks" so seriously, it's an internet forum not the western front!

Edited November 19, 2013 by Hotter Otter

[David & Diana R 1,005]

I am relatively new here, but have noted the extreme vitriol directed toward those who are (or have) following the time consuming and lengthy process of the Fiance visa route.

These people are under the tremendous stress and heartbreak of being away from their loved ones during the process.

These persons see others who marry their loved ones while in USA on Student or Tourist visas.

Those following the K-1 route note that those who marry the students and tourists get to spend the AOS process IN THE COMPANY OF THEIR LOVED ONES, while they must be content with emails, phone calls, Skype and a possible expensive trip.

Surely the Student and Tourist visa marriages must understand the extreme asymptotic treatment that the K-1 folks are being subjected to compared to their own treatment.

And yet, when the K-1 folks advise the Student and Tourist marriages to return back home and do it the proper way . . . the Student and Tourist folks become enraged when it is suggested they undertake something as difficult and heart breaking as the K-1 folks are going through.

Sure, the Student and Tourist folks fall back on the idea that they had no 'prior intent.'

But we all know this is a load of hoooeeey in a percentage (neither I nor anyone else knows the percentage) of the cases.

What it seems to boil down to is this:

Those who can easily get tourist visa to come to USA, or who come from countries not needing a tourist visa; they take the tourist visa route to come to USA to marry their loved ones, and live together with their loved one while going through the AOS process.

Those who are in countries where it is difficult to get tourist visa to come to USA are forced to follow the K-1 route.

So is it asking too much that the privileged Tourist or Waiver folks who did, in fact, have prior intent show a HUGE amount of empathy for their K-1 brethern?

And isn't the empathy called for even from those folks who truly had no prior intent?

Sure, those with prior intent aren't going to admit that here . . . but can't the righteous indignation be toned down a bit?

Just asking.

Amen!!

[cdneh 3,112]

Um... no.

No one on VJ 'deserves slack' for saying hurtful things about anyone else, their loved ones, their relationships. People in your third category made the choice to pursue their visa in the method that they have through free will, just the way everyone else has done. If some feel those people are 'luckier', made better choices (that just HAVE to be dodgy) , have less of a genuine relationship,or are being preferentially treated, then they need to do a little growing up. Life ain't fair, and neither is the playing field.

NO visa class on VJ should be labeled a second class group of posters, who have to forgive incredibly rude ####### tossed at them, tug their forelocks, and slink away onto the sidelines for having the temerity in getting a faster approval. Post and say YAY!, but only if it's a yay and you apologize first for having the nerve to do that in a K1 forum.

As far as 'waiting with warm bodies in their beds' I sure hope your spouse means a lot more to you than that. And understand, K1's have already done their waiting, and some of it for a lot longer than recent trends indicate.

[Peter_Pan 661]

I HATE that people on tourist visas are allowed to adjust, when intent is clear in 99% of the cases. Student visas are different.

[cdneh 3,112]

I HATE that people on tourist visas are allowed to adjust, when intent is clear in 99% of the cases. Student visas are different.

That figure is ridiculously high. Source is?