About to file I-751 & on the brink of divorce: have you gone through that?

[christeen 966]

Glad it worked for you... But each case is totally unique. My thought process however is if there is another route.. Let sleeping dogs lie... Or meaning if you can more easily and discreetly do the divorce and file waiver than to stir the pot with an abuse claim that might trigger an attack or other confrontations... But you do,what. Fits your unique situation...

[TBoneTX 45,873]

Reference to removed material has been edited, with relevant portion returned below:

You are one angry woman here. Calm down.

[Villanelle 4,122]

Look, I appreciate your passion and the fact that you so quickly went from a victim posting back in Nov to a strong advocate posting now in May. A bit confused about how you claim to have 2 yrs in DV support though.

But the whole initial point of your thread was (paraphrasing) whats the quickest way to ROC because that will remove leverage the abuser has over the immigrant.

-​the leverage is imaginary, as you are never out of status or in any danger immigration-wise, so again your abuser has as much power over you as you as you let them or you believe they have.

-there is no way to know how fast you application will be processed besides looking at current trends, but at any moment USCIS can divert the workload or there can be an influx of applications and things change.

The reason why DV shelter houses addresses are kept secret is because the BEST way to protect a DV victim is NOT a restraining order (YEP, same studies). What truly protects a DV victim is to swiftly sever all possible means of contact/leverage between abuser and victim.

So yes I agree with this and most of the other DV related advice in your thread but your immigration status is not leverage, it is protected.

As for this

As for "helping the next victim" You should probably know that YES IT DOES help as restraining orders for DV are disclosed to the next foreign born spouse (USC spouse can inform themselves in USA) and USCIS keeps track of that so they can delay or deny the next K1 visa.

Actually no. A RO is not a criminal matter that would be disclosed. (The USC doesnt have to put it on the forms and even if they did the USCIS does not have to tell you) Its not a trial where someone is found guilty. If the spouse was arrested and charged with DV and found guilty then yes, that would have to be disclosed, but simply going down and applying for a RO against someone- nope.

If you follow the VAWA thread youll see there are people that have been denied and they are not blithering idiots but legitimate victims who just couldnt meet the burdens of proof. And some are going through appeals court and having motions denied and reapplying. Its not as simple as you make it sound and its not as simple as the preliminary checklist you provided. Sandra has explained the procedures and polices many times in many threads and tries to keep it all contained in the VAWA thread. You should read through it and get to know the people there.

Anyway as I said before I share the same mindset as christeen. each case is totally unique and one should do what fits their unique situation.

Edited May 12, 2014 by capri

[AT20000 38]

Maven you do not understand what we are discussing here, we are NOT discussing a normal divorce with no kids, no assets, etc we are discussing a divorce from an abusive spouse. And we are talking about ABUSE i.e not of a guy that raises his voice occasionally because he did not get his way.

The waiting time national average is... 5 months. Some states have zero month, some have... 24 months! So a bunch of people from Arkansas, Maryland, New jersey, Pennsylvania could come and say that it took them more than 18 months also but this is NOT the point. " it took another month for the judgement to be entered but technically we were divorced in 6 months and one day" We are not discussing "technicalities" here or what date is written on the paper when you received it months after your hearing, One can ONLY send a document to USCIS when they actually have it in their hands and it's only when USCIS receives this document that they start processing your case.

So now we know that it takes 7 months for an uncontested divorce/dissolution in California... We are all happy to hear it but

-1- We are not talking about uncontested divorce/annulment we are talking about contentious divorce

-2- We are not talking about any contentious divorce, we are talking about divorcing an abusive spouse

This is not just a couple that cannot get along anymore and argues over who should take the garbage out or about a pissed-off a** that turns the TV off in the middle of Scandal or Grey's anatomy.

We talk about the kind of guy who was normal when you met him but now:

-does not want you to work,

-does not let you use the car,

-does not let you control your own money,

-does not want you to meet with or talk to anybody, "because you don't know how to behave you fu***ing bi***" ".

-does not allow you to talk to your parents or friends the way you want,

-tells you what to wear,

-gets mad at you and threatens you - if only he does not hit you- if another man looks at you as "this is also your fault you sl**".

-made you lose your job because he makes you late, is everyday and for hours in front of your job waiting, provoking arguments, throwing fits,

-Insults you on a daily basis,

-hits you right across the face because dinner is not ready at 5:30.

-The dude who shot your dog in the head because he was barking at him while he was slapping the heck out of you (true story),

-the guy who thinks that raping his spouse is not rape ( true story also)

-the guy who has already gotten in your face and held your neck so hard that you feared for your life (true story),

-the guy who sleeps with a hand gun under his bed and tells you that " you have no right to take the kids away from me you poor ***, if you go with the kids I will kill you, I will kill the kids and kill myself"...

All these are true stories, do you get the feeling now? Or should I continue?

THIS one type of guy will certainly NOT tell you " Well you know what? Yeah you are right let's get a divorce, we cannot make this work, let's part ways and stay good friends. You take the kids all week, I take them every other weekend, you keep the van as you will need it". THIS is typically what does NOT happen with THIS type of man because according to all studies -yes all of them- Abuse is not about love and break up normally, it is about power and control ONLY so why would they want to release the grip they have on their victim?

Here for the references http://www.theduluthmodel.org/pdf/PowerandControl.pdf

So it is easy to say " got my divorce in 7 months and one day" ( by the way, this is the best case scenario, the slightest disagreement or backlog and you are at one year) But expecting that from an abusive man is not only not very realistic, it is dangerous. This type of guy discusses everything: kids custody and visitation issues, forks and knives, pillowcases, where you can live, etc, Because once again it is NOT about divorcing for him, it is about how long and how he will be able to keep the power and control over you. So he will file a restraining order because you have tried to protect your face while he was beating you and he got scratched on his forearm ( true story). He will allege that you are unfit and ask for parental evaluation ( and this lasts months and months) and this will lead you straight to mediation and parenting classes and this also lasts months. So before you get to have a judgement in your hand: good luck.

[novedsac 355]

Here for the references http://www.theduluthmodel.org/pdf/PowerandControl.pdf

I wish they would write these charts to be more gender neutral - gives the false impression that only women suffer abuse.

With the exception of "Using Male Priviledge" and "Using Economic Abuse", my ex-wife was quite adept at all the elements on this chart after reading through the descriptions. Wow. Interesting chart.

[N-o-l-a 7,168]

And again you are making assumptions - I tell you 3 months, 90 days to be exact, I got a divorce from a man in Colorado who had raped me, imprisoned me in my home, hit me, caused enough injury to me that I had a miscarriage, threatened to kill me and sell our unborn daughter into slavery/pedophilia ring, etc. We are talking about a man that allegedly raped a girl in high school and blackmailed her and after our divorce another woman had convicted for felony stalking and physical harassment. This is a man who I filed police reports against and had a civil protection order.

Getting divorced ended his "possession" of me in his mind. He could no longer do what he pleased and as the police were no help at the time, it was my only option. The same police department did listen when the next girl came along and I wish that I could give her a hug and tell her sorry, sorry that I couldn't do more, and sorry that she also had to go through the same.

I can tell you that he was happy when we got divorced and I was in imminent fear for my life beforehand. Whatever stress or pressure our marriage was causing seemed to end in his mind.

Rather than him having the gun, I did, constantly there, constantly afraid he was going to kill me one day. We lived apart before we filed for divorce and I was really afraid then. My family were in desperate fear for my life and my mother was sure he was going to kill me.

Perhaps you did not have this same fear or perhaps you, unlike me, didn't fear him flipping out over potentially losing his security clearance had I done anything else at that point but filed for divorce. I still don't prod the bear and although I wish I had told the school that he shouldn't be teaching (that felony stalking was filed by a student of his), I think his rage at me claiming abuse, would reignite it.

Then again, I know too well how men like this work - my father broke my arm as a toddler and abused my mother...that I know that provoking them can be very very dangerous. I didn't want to die, so hence I would have not provoked my ex-husband.

[elmcitymaven 9,712]

Maven you do not understand what we are discussing here, we are NOT discussing a normal divorce with no kids, no assets, etc we are discussing a divorce from an abusive spouse. And we are talking about ABUSE i.e not of a guy that raises his voice occasionally because he did not get his way.

The waiting time national average is... 5 months. Some states have zero month, some have... 24 months! So a bunch of people from Arkansas, Maryland, New jersey, Pennsylvania could come and say that it took them more than 18 months also but this is NOT the point. " it took another month for the judgement to be entered but technically we were divorced in 6 months and one day" We are not discussing "technicalities" here or what date is written on the paper when you received it months after your hearing, One can ONLY send a document to USCIS when they actually have it in their hands and it's only when USCIS receives this document that they start processing your case.

So now we know that it takes 7 months for an uncontested divorce/dissolution in California... We are all happy to hear it but

-1- We are not talking about uncontested divorce/annulment we are talking about contentious divorce

-2- We are not talking about any contentious divorce, we are talking about divorcing an abusive spouse

This is not just a couple that cannot get along anymore and argues over who should take the garbage out or about a pissed-off a** that turns the TV off in the middle of Scandal or Grey's anatomy.

We talk about the kind of guy who was normal when you met him but now:

-does not want you to work,

-does not let you use the car,

-does not let you control your own money,

-does not want you to meet with or talk to anybody, "because you don't know how to behave you fu***ing bi***" ".

-does not allow you to talk to your parents or friends the way you want,

-tells you what to wear,

-gets mad at you and threatens you - if only he does not hit you- if another man looks at you as "this is also your fault you sl**".

-made you lose your job because he makes you late, is everyday and for hours in front of your job waiting, provoking arguments, throwing fits,

-Insults you on a daily basis,

-hits you right across the face because dinner is not ready at 5:30.

-The dude who shot your dog in the head because he was barking at him while he was slapping the heck out of you (true story),

-the guy who thinks that raping his spouse is not rape ( true story also)

-the guy who has already gotten in your face and held your neck so hard that you feared for your life (true story),

-the guy who sleeps with a hand gun under his bed and tells you that " you have no right to take the kids away from me you poor ***, if you go with the kids I will kill you, I will kill the kids and kill myself"...

All these are true stories, do you get the feeling now? Or should I continue?

THIS one type of guy will certainly NOT tell you " Well you know what? Yeah you are right let's get a divorce, we cannot make this work, let's part ways and stay good friends. You take the kids all week, I take them every other weekend, you keep the van as you will need it". THIS is typically what does NOT happen with THIS type of man because according to all studies -yes all of them- Abuse is not about love and break up normally, it is about power and control ONLY so why would they want to release the grip they have on their victim?

Here for the references http://www.theduluthmodel.org/pdf/PowerandControl.pdf

So it is easy to say " got my divorce in 7 months and one day" ( by the way, this is the best case scenario, the slightest disagreement or backlog and you are at one year) But expecting that from an abusive man is not only not very realistic, it is dangerous. This type of guy discusses everything: kids custody and visitation issues, forks and knives, pillowcases, where you can live, etc, Because once again it is NOT about divorcing for him, it is about how long and how he will be able to keep the power and control over you. So he will file a restraining order because you have tried to protect your face while he was beating you and he got scratched on his forearm ( true story). He will allege that you are unfit and ask for parental evaluation ( and this lasts months and months) and this will lead you straight to mediation and parenting classes and this also lasts months. So before you get to have a judgement in your hand: good luck.

Actually it was six months and one day. And I know my case is nothing like yours, but to say (essentially) no one in California can get a divorce in under a year is wrong. I just wanted to clarify that statement for others who may come across this thread. If one's situation is that there are no sizeable assets or debts, no children and no disagreements as to dissolution, dissolution is 100% doable in under a year in California. Again, that is not germane to your particular situation, but it is for others.

As a sexual violence survivor myself (outside of a marriage), my hat is tipped to you for taking control of your situation. You are clearly a strong woman.

[AT20000 38]

Glad it worked for you... But each case is totally unique. My thought process however is if there is another route.. Let sleeping dogs lie... Or meaning if you can more easily and discreetly do the divorce and file waiver than to stir the pot with an abuse claim that might trigger an attack or other confrontations... But you do,what. Fits your unique situation...

You raise a very interesting point that summarizes what most people wrongly ( with all due respect) think: Why bother with abuse? File for divorce discretely!

Filing for divorce discretely is actually totally impossible because no one can file for divorce without having the other party served, in all states

(abandonment is off topic please). The other party gets X days to respond (& that is when threats, fallacious TRO, etc will start). So discretely: Not gonna happen! At the very minute your abusive spouse is served, the pressure will ratchet up 1000 notches. NO DV shelter will tell you " Suuuuure Honey you are safe ( Call me when you get to the hospital if your jaw is not broken OK?)!". They will ALL tell you "Do NOT stay in any place he knows of. Get your important stuff & come to the safe house NOW, turn off your cell, remove the battery immediately, do not tell anyone where you are, do not power on any tablet or laptop"

- By opposition to divorce, extreme cruelty or VAWA ROC does not "stir the pot" AT ALL because this application process is 100% hidden from your spouse (keywords 100% hidden). That is why I say that it definitely is the smarter way to go when someone has a case ( which has triggered a bunch of people who were coming up with a list of mandatory exhibits that was totally - but totally totally- inaccurate ). Divorce is uncovered as soon as your spouse is served (i.e beginning of divorce), Extreme cruelty or VAWA processes are NEVER disclosed to your spouse. EVER.

I have filed for ROC extreme cruelty (me & son) in January and got approved in 3 months. My soon to be ex husband does not know any of that. He does not even know that I have filed! So he thinks he has the upper hand in the upcoming "negotiation" & does not know that the weapons he thinks he has are already no longer there. The longer he wrongly believes he is in a position of strength, the better it is for me.

Edited May 12, 2014 by AT20000

[AT20000 38]

And again you are making assumptions - I tell you 3 months, 90 days to be exact, I got a divorce from a man in Colorado who had raped me, imprisoned me in my home, hit me, caused enough injury to me that I had a miscarriage, threatened to kill me and sell our unborn daughter into slavery/pedophilia ring, etc. We are talking about a man that allegedly raped a girl in high school and blackmailed her and after our divorce another woman had convicted for felony stalking and physical harassment. This is a man who I filed police reports against and had a civil protection order.

Then again, I know too well how men like this work - my father broke my arm as a toddler and abused my mother...that I know that provoking them can be very very dangerous. I didn't want to die, so hence I would have not provoked my ex-husband.

You obviously STILL don't get it. So let's try again:

1-Your story is very sad BUT you are USC and you are in your own country (noticed that?) with family and friends around you and benefits that immigrants just CANNOT have.Can you comprehend that already? All the housing benefits, the cash assistance, the wellfare, etc YOU can have is a no-no for an immigrant. Do you get this? So what are you trying to demonstrate here? Do you think that any guy of any country on the face of the earth would have abused me, in any way, in Corsica where I come from? Hahaha! Just the idea of it, makes me laugh.

2- You got lucky you were in Colorado where there is no waiting time, but if unfortunately you were living in Maryland, the waiting time there is.... 2 years! And I guess you would not be here bragging about how swift your divorce was. You got lucky to be there at that time. Period. The average waiting time among all states is 5 months ( it goes from a zero to a 24-month waiting time), so you actually are the one who is making misguiding blanket statements and giving false hopes. (besides, even with your swift divorce, I would not be approved yet, whereas I currently am approved with ROC + cruelty)

I am glad nothing bad happened to you, but all studies so far - yes all of them- have proven - and by far- that the most dangerous period for a DV victim is the divorce/ separation period ( DV represents 11% of all the homicides in the US and 37% of ALL women sought ER care for DV reason)

And just so you know a recent study has shown ALSO that most DV victims that are being killed by their spouse/partner had filed a restraining order that was in place at the time of their murder. That is how well TROs are protecting DV victims in the US! And Police is NOT to blame for that. The country cannot decently put a police officer behind EACH single person who files for a TRO! So if this guy had really wanted to kill you ( which I am glad he did not), lI hope you realize that you would not be here to talk about it, as much as the 3 women who are murdered by their partner/spouse every single day in this country. (see government statistics)

3- Now with regard to your advice "Divorce triggers less than filing for VAWA,or cruelty, I know better blah blah..." I really hope you did not take the time to think before you typed such an ineptitude.

If one files for divorce, they HAVE to get their spouse served to get the process started ( so the spouse IS aware of what is going on), BUT if one files for ROC under VAWA or cruelty, the process is 100% hidden from the abusive spouse (so they are NOT aware of what is going on). Therefore the spouse has STRICTLY NO KNOWLEDGE of your allegations of abuse nor of the simple fact that you have filed for ROC. How do you want anyone - even the worst abuser- to be "provoked" by something they have strictly no knowledge of? Do you realize that your theory does not make sense?

Please take a breath, get yourself a muffin and try to think rationally here!

Examples?

Here: http://www.msnewsnow.com/story/7301002/stabbing-victim-says-tro-wasnt-enforced

Here: http://www.8newsnow.com/story/648610/do-restraining-orders-stop-domestic-violence

Here: http://www.azcentral.com/community/swvalley/articles/2012/05/30/20120530woman-got-restraining-order-days-before-she-killed.html

Government Statistics? Here you go! http://www.statisticbrain.com/domestic-violence-abuse-stats/

[belinda63 3,041]

Well AT2000 I'm glad everything worked out for you. You have left your abuser, renewed your green card, and started a new life. Congratulations. Do you need anything else?