Why liberals are panicked about Obamacare

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Yeah. Who's panicking now?

Democrats. 39 of them voted with Republicans after Obama's "offer". Won't work. The only way Obama's "offer" can work is if he signs legislation making it LAW, but has already said he will veto a LAW doing what he said. Until there is a veto proof margin of Dems supporting it. The 12 Dems that need to get re-elected in the Senate joining the Repubs would do the trick.

People wanted universal health care (didn't you?) and instead got something that is dependent on state insurance boards and insurers CEOs with a non-functional website to sign up. The deadline to "fix" the website has been extended indefinitely...that WAS the reason for the "extension"

All the Republicans need to do now is...nothing.

what we can say is...

Ted Cruz was right.

[Pooky 3,839]

Yeah. Who's panicking now?

39 Democrat Congresspeople and as many as 16 Democrat Senators.

Oh, and Dingy Harry.

[The Nature Boy 4,224]

I am very liberal and not at all panicked. Obamacare is the best thing to be handed to the Republicans since...the Assault Weapons non-ban in 1994.

The people that are panicked are legislators who voted for it and have to get re-elected. ALL of them are Democrats, many of them are phoney anti-choice "liberals" but not all.

Just wanted to clear the record.

You are not a liberal, as defined in this country.

[The Nature Boy 4,224]

Democrats. 39 of them voted with Republicans after Obama's "offer". Won't work. The only way Obama's "offer" can work is if he signs legislation making it LAW, but has already said he will veto a LAW doing what he said. Until there is a veto proof margin of Dems supporting it. The 12 Dems that need to get re-elected in the Senate joining the Repubs would do the trick.

People wanted universal health care (didn't you?) and instead got something that is dependent on state insurance boards and insurers CEOs with a non-functional website to sign up. The deadline to "fix" the website has been extended indefinitely...that WAS the reason for the "extension"

All the Republicans need to do now is...nothing.

what we can say is...

Ted Cruz was right.

I have been saying all along, sit back and wait

Then..Well America we tried to save you

When Sally Age 24 with 3 kids, finds out her 150 bucks a month affordable insurance, has a 5000 dollar deductible and 30% co-pay all hell is going to break lose.

When only 500,000 sign up and they are all high cost formerly un insurable people, the Insurance companies are going to be in deep shat and have to raise the rates 600%. Then all hell is going to break lose.

Liberals on TV are already trying to call it the Republican plan, oddly very few or none of them voted for it

[Pooky 3,839]

Liberals on TV are already trying to call it the Republican plan, oddly very few or none of them voted for it

The same can be said of the more vocal Liberals here on VJ. In fact, some went as far as to question why Republicans were so opposed to a plan that "they" dreamed up 20 years ago.

Fact is, the Republicans realized over the past 20 years that the basic idea was a great big pile of poo, while the Democrats did not. Pelosi and Dingy Harry rammed this through Congress without Republican support, because their President needed to pass something. They just did not have the courage to pass the right thing.

The Democrats own this mess, lock, stock and two smoking barrels.

[Dakine10 5,452]

NM

Edited November 16, 2013 by Dakine10

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

You are not a liberal, as defined in this country.

OH YES I AM!

I support ALL rights for ALL people regardless of anything.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

The same can be said of the more vocal Liberals here on VJ. In fact, some went as far as to question why Republicans were so opposed to a plan that "they" dreamed up 20 years ago.

Fact is, the Republicans realized over the past 20 years that the basic idea was a great big pile of poo, while the Democrats did not. Pelosi and Dingy Harry rammed this through Congress without Republican support, because their President needed to pass something. They just did not have the courage to pass the right thing.

The Democrats own this mess, lock, stock and two smoking barrels.

Exactly, I bet you can even write in cursive.

For one thing I am always amazed at how Democrats think Republicans are always RIGHT. "Well,,, it is the same thing Republicans thought of 20 years ago!" This means what? That Republicans are right AND 20 years ahead of Democrats? No. It means Republicans can be wrong sometimes and thank goodness Democrats stopped them at that time. Too bad that 20 years later the Deocrats gave us the same "pile of poo" they had smashed 20 years prior. Seriously? When it was their turn the Democrats gave us the same thing the Republicans did? And you wonder why I say they are all the same?

This is a terribly crafted law. The only way to fix a terribly crafted law is to CHANGE it. The only ones who can CHANGE it are the legislators. Obama gets to administer it and he can ignore parts of it for as long as he wants, but he cannot change it. Why pass a law you cannot logically enforce or implement...ever? What will change in 1 year? How will this trash be good in 1 year? Other than being the other side of the next election, how will it be better? Eventually the law will need to take effect and the Dems will be blasted out of office in the election following that. The LAW SUCKS.

Can anyone else see that this is nothing but a blatant attempt to maintain political power...for two more years? It has nothing to do with "healthcare" or health.

NM

good answer

[The Nature Boy 4,224]

OH YES I AM!

I support ALL rights for ALL people regardless of anything.

That makes you a Libertarian

Liberals generally support rights of the Govt

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

That makes you a Libertarian

Liberals generally support rights of the Govt

I stand corrected. Scew the Govt't.

Ever see the movie "Legends of the Fall" No on says "screw the government" better than that Brit Sir Anthony Hopkins!

[Dakine10 5,452]

good answer

Unfortunately I'm on call this weekend and I had to run just as I started posting. Didn't have time to edit.

Got the darn libertarian bunch this weekend. You know, they're all about the individual until they actually have to get up off their asses and do something. Then they become communists all of a sudden. "help us out comrade!!"

Anyway, to your original question, I think we are on the road to universal health care. Every screwup with Obamacare will get us there faster. The insurance companies were all on board until the bottom line dropped. Once everyone jumps ship, the door will open up for single payer. Which probably was the plan all along.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Unfortunately I'm on call this weekend and I had to run just as I started posting. Didn't have time to edit.

Got the darn libertarian bunch this weekend. You know, they're all about the individual until they actually have to get up off their asses and do something. Then they become communists all of a sudden. "help us out comrade!!"

Anyway, to your original question, I think we are on the road to universal health care. Every screwup with Obamacare will get us there faster. The insurance companies were all on board until the bottom line dropped. Once everyone jumps ship, the door will open up for single payer. Which probably was the plan all along.

it is the only way government run health care can operate.

And I have heard this theory before, that Obamacare was intended to be all messed up so that it would justify Single payer/ I don;t believe it and here is why...

American politicians are pansies. The biggest puss-puss pansies in the entire world, we have the BEST. ALL of them. Dems, Repubs...all the same.

A year ago a guy walks into a SCHOOL and murders 20 small children. Can we even get these puss-puss politicians to pass a simple background check? I mean lets forget about Assault Weapons bans (are you kidding?) and lets just go to a background check. No. Not just no, but HELL NO! They are all afraid to lose their seat and have to actually work for a living. None of them could come close to the perks and salary they get as congressmen and women...and not have to produce anything. within 3 months there is no more talk of gun laws. Gone. And why? Because 5 million NRA members scattered around can shut down any form of legislation reagrding firearms and you will never see another Federal gun law after the legislative bloodbath of 1994. The recall of two senators in Colorado this year was an additional warning. Ain't gonna happen. I oppose gun laws myself bu tthat is not the point. The point is that a very small number of people can have huge influence on people who depend on a margin of 3-5% to keep their jobs. The NRA can affect 3-5% of the vote in ANY district and can therefore throw them out if they don;t comply. Fast forward...

Three years ago Dems were all about Obamacare. Now they are running from it. I am reminded of the movie "Ghostbusters" when they shut down the containment grid and all the ghosts and spirits were released. Everyone makes a headlong dash AWAY from the source of the troubles. The implementation of Obamacare released all the ghosts and spirits and worms that everyone knew were in there...or should have known. If you heard a used car ad that sounded anything like Obama's speil you would call the bunko squad! Cars for everyone! No qualification! Prices $2500 lower than anyone else! Not possible in any plan using private insurers. Not possible.

So now the politicians are running from Obamacare, more and more will run from it. His "fix" won't satisfy anyone even for the weekend. You understand that the "fix" is because the website is not going to be operational by December 1, right? You do know that? When Obama THOUGHT it woul dbe ready by then the story was that these were "bad apple" insurers and that their policies were "junk" and that everyone would be able to get better insurance through the exchanges. Oops. Can't. Now he agrees to "allow" the bad apple insurance companies (many are the same ones offering plans in the exchanges) to sell junk policies. But only for a year. Seriously? This guy was elected President? Twice?

The problem now is that people's trust in the ability of our government to run healthcare is damaged. Obamacare will fail. It will fail because it is junk legislation and mathmatically impossible using companies which must earn a profit. Comparing to Canada or UK or even Ukraine is silly. Our government is designed NOT to do things. The system of checks and balances is designed to prevent the government from doing these things because we did not want the government to do these things.

Our two party system of "majority rules" assures an adversarial system with one party blocking the other...ALWAYS. Why doesn't Dingy Harry just change the rules of filibuster? Because then it would hurt the Dems when they are the minority. It is "honor among theives" Why isn't the Senate appointed like it is supposed to be...so they would not be subject to influence of money for campaigns?

Our constitution was written and has been amended to make the operation of business by government a practical impossibility. The only way it can work is a constitutional amendment granting the power to regulate and provide healthcare to the government...the same way they have authority to control the military. It is possible they could even do it with legislation under the "promote the general welfare" clause but better to be specific. I mean if an amendment was good enough for prohibiting alcohol, it ought to be good enough for healthcare.

The administration fouled up every aspect of this. It is the most stupendous F-up I have ever seen. Am I missing something? Can you think of a government F-up bigger than this? Even the Vietnam war had some redeeming qualities. This is just trash.

My fear (mitigated by the fact that my state has aready passed single payer which I supported completely) is that the politicians will be afraid to go near healthcare again for another 20 years and anything else will be rejected out of hand.

Who among these puss-puss pansies is going to stand up to the insurance lobby? They didn't before. Obamacare is nothing but a handout to insurance companies and they were the only ones that were going to benefit. Once the Dems had adjusted the 2300 pages of nonsense to benefit the insurance companies...it passed. Sort of.

Bottom line...if it was the plan to use Obamacare as a stepping stone,to single payer, I believe it was a terrible plan. Just another political game, and that is another reason it scares the hell out of me to have the FEDERAL government run healthcare.

But our good Senator Bernie Sanders (I-VT) intoduced legislation to implement single payer during the debate of Obamacare and was shut out...by Democrats.

Brilliant.

[lostinblue 1,989]

Who wrote this health care bill?.....Who actually crafted the language..... ?It is all about control of the population .Single payer government control of your life. You like microwave popcorn ....too bad ...... trans fat An extra swig of the big gulp too bad you had your daily quota. Liberals want to micromanage you to your grave. The next big shoe to drop is medical professionals...... Why study for 10 years and put up with this #######.

[Crashed~N2~Me 970]

It is all about control of the population .

One constitutional amendment at a time.

Question is why? Answer = follow the money = progressive utopia.

& why not? It works for China ...right? They just now lifted the single child law! Now that's Human Rights in action! (or) Just ask Maduro the Bus Driver - Venezuela is booooming. Have they fixed their toilet paper problem yet? Or is Maduro still hitting the stops begging for something to wipe with...?

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Who wrote this health care bill?.....Who actually crafted the language..... ?It is all about control of the population .Single payer government control of your life. You like microwave popcorn ....too bad ...... trans fat An extra swig of the big gulp too bad you had your daily quota. Liberals want to micromanage you to your grave. The next big shoe to drop is medical professionals...... Why study for 10 years and put up with this #######.

I think that the ultimate goal is single payer. It is how it works in every other country. It is really the only way the government can actually operate it.

Many of the current problems are in the regulatikns...not the law itself. Regulations were crafted by Obama's administration, HHS to be precise. The law is flawed in allowing those things to be handled by executive regulation.

Yes, the law was crafted to allow as much as possible to be controlled by executive fiat. Yes it was so the executive branch could control as much of your life as possible. Very common tactic. Pass an "assault weapons ban" and then give the Attorney General or even the Director of the BATFE the authority to define WHAT is an assault rifle. In many countries this leads to the banning of even a particular bore diameter as being an "assault rifle" All determined by people who do not need to get elected.

And as you say, it gives the government an "interest" in regulating all sorts of other things about your life under the guise of "healthcare" The United States has always had a better way and the better way has always been to limit the government's involvment in business. Government needs to protect the RIGHTS of everyone. And then be kept out of the business by Constitutional amendment.

If Obamacare was the planned stepping stone it was as flawed as Obamacare itself. It will scare people off the government handling healthcare.

Our pansie congress did not have the balls to stand up to the insurance lobby and propose single payer. The idea is for Obamacare to FAIL and then the government will say "We tried that..." (what they will call the "Republican idea") "...and it did not work" I get it. But I think it will backfire on them...at least for 20 years or so, Hopefully some more states will get on the ball and do something, making the Feds irrelevent.

As was intended by the people founding this country, healthcare will work better in this country when we do it ourselves.