Fraud, please help!

[Villanelle 4,122]

This is a very delicate situation and there are a few pieces of misinformation scattered throughout- so to clear that up first of all a CR1 marriage visa is different then a K! visa. When you get married and enter with the CR1 visa you are issued the GC immediately upon entry. If you are married for less then 2 years at the point of entry you are granted the 2 yr conditional card, if you are married over 2 yrs you ger the 10yr permanent card.

It seems the man and his wife were married for just under 2 years when she enters hence she was immediately given the 2yr conditional GC upon entry and advised him of her decision to divorce 5 days later. This means she like any other conditional GC holder will have to file for ROC to keep her GC.

The original question was how would they take away the 2yr card she was issued upon arrival and the answer is the pretty much can not. In order to do that they would have to go to a special investigator at USCIS (FDNS) with concrete proof that this was all a scam for her to enter the US and the proof needed for that would have to be unquestionable 3rd party sources that rarely exist. Like a video tape of her discussing her scam with someone else. A detailed journal in her handwriting detailing her 'plan' or proof that she defrauded the USCIS and your friend like the woman is married to someone else and had concealed from your friend thereby making their marriage invalid. (This almost never ever happens, people never get such proofs that would meet the burden, the best they can get are some emails- which are not acceptable, maybe some phone logs where they allege infidelity -again not enough- and a sad story of heartbreak to tell the officer and its just not enough) Hence the answer of you really have no way to take away the 2 yr GC she was issued on arrival because 99.99% of the time you just dont.

You do have the option though of trying to prevent her from successfully ROC'ing. Which is what she is going to be doing after the divorce in order to get a permanent 10 yr GC.

In some ways your friend was somewhat lucky that she decided to request divorce now immediately upon entry to the US rather then wait 6 months or a year of jointly living together before filing. Requesting a divorce immediately after getting your GC looks incredibly suspicious to the USCIS- like you married in India and then Bam as soon as you got here you divorce? CLearly you married for the benefit and she will have to prove otherwise. Its going to be hard for her. SHe will have to show proof they were legitimately married. Most of her evidence is going to be proof of her life with him and their joint life/relationship long distance (the same things they used to get the CR1 approved.

In order to show though that it was not a scam on her part where she used him for a GC she is creatively requesting a 10k payment in the divorce settlement. If it was the other way around where the alien paid the USC the money it would scream clear fraud that the alien had just paid for the GC, but with the USC paying the alien it will almost look like the marriage was legitimate and didnt work out and he is giving her a large alimony settlement because they were legitimate. This will work in her favor when USCIS reviews the divorce.

With out that large 'alimony type' payment and the divorce showing they have no assests to split as they never started a life together her ROC evidence is going to be very weak, Its basically just going to be like I said above the same type of stuff they submitted for the visa along with her statement that she entered in god faith. Your friend can submit a letter to USCIS that will get attached to his file where he can explain (and it would be be best if it it could have some kind of Drs statement to support it) that he is slightly mentally disabled and feels as if his bride used him to gain entry to the US. He can explain the limited contact they had. or the extent of their marital relationship long distance. That it was an arranged marriage etc. His parents or someone can even assists him with writing it, as long as he signs it and adds something like all of the above statements are truthful to the best of my ability.

I do very much understand the dilemma here as Mark laid it out

There are a lot of families who spend $10.000 just like someone else would just spend $10. And anyone who has children (and in this situation who has a mental challenge who might not be emotionally fit to go through the whole ordeal), I as a parent with the means would just pay her to to go away, too.

Paying the money will ensure a quick divorce but it will also probably help her obtain her permanent card. Not paying the money may lead to a more contested divorce because she really doesnt have much evidence for ROC, she may try to get back to together with the husband to gain more evidence to ROC at a later date after she does get some joint bills in the US and stuff. She may allege cruelty or abuse in the divorce or bring up his mental condition which would be a dirty tactic because she was aware of it but shed be in a desperate place because she needs something in the divorce to help with her ROC if its not going to be a generous alimony.

So the family has to consider the emotional needs of their son vs the financial cost to them vs the need for justice against a scammer.

Its a very personal decision and no one should judge them whatever path they take.

[Mark88 184]

Its a very personal decision and no one should judge them whatever path they take.

Your post was the best of the whole thread and your last sentence says everything. Excellent!

[sidp69 1]

This is a very delicate situation and there are a few pieces of misinformation scattered throughout- so to clear that up first of all a CR1 marriage visa is different then a K! visa. When you get married and enter with the CR1 visa you are issued the GC immediately upon entry. If you are married for less then 2 years at the point of entry you are granted the 2 yr conditional card, if you are married over 2 yrs you ger the 10yr permanent card.

It seems the man and his wife were married for just under 2 years when she enters hence she was immediately given the 2yr conditional GC upon entry and advised him of her decision to divorce 5 days later. This means she like any other conditional GC holder will have to file for ROC to keep her GC.

The original question was how would they take away the 2yr card she was issued upon arrival and the answer is the pretty much can not. In order to do that they would have to go to a special investigator at USCIS (FDNS) with concrete proof that this was all a scam for her to enter the US and the proof needed for that would have to be unquestionable 3rd party sources that rarely exist. Like a video tape of her discussing her scam with someone else. A detailed journal in her handwriting detailing her 'plan' or proof that she defrauded the USCIS and your friend like the woman is married to someone else and had concealed from your friend thereby making their marriage invalid. (This almost never ever happens, people never get such proofs that would meet the burden, the best they can get are some emails- which are not acceptable, maybe some phone logs where they allege infidelity -again not enough- and a sad story of heartbreak to tell the officer and its just not enough) Hence the answer of you really have no way to take away the 2 yr GC she was issued on arrival because 99.99% of the time you just dont.

You do have the option though of trying to prevent her from successfully ROC'ing. Which is what she is going to be doing after the divorce in order to get a permanent 10 yr GC.

In some ways your friend was somewhat lucky that she decided to request divorce now immediately upon entry to the US rather then wait 6 months or a year of jointly living together before filing. Requesting a divorce immediately after getting your GC looks incredibly suspicious to the USCIS- like you married in India and then Bam as soon as you got here you divorce? CLearly you married for the benefit and she will have to prove otherwise. Its going to be hard for her. SHe will have to show proof they were legitimately married. Most of her evidence is going to be proof of her life with him and their joint life/relationship long distance (the same things they used to get the CR1 approved.

In order to show though that it was not a scam on her part where she used him for a GC she is creatively requesting a 10k payment in the divorce settlement. If it was the other way around where the alien paid the USC the money it would scream clear fraud that the alien had just paid for the GC, but with the USC paying the alien it will almost look like the marriage was legitimate and didnt work out and he is giving her a large alimony settlement because they were legitimate. This will work in her favor when USCIS reviews the divorce.

With out that large 'alimony type' payment and the divorce showing they have no assests to split as they never started a life together her ROC evidence is going to be very weak, Its basically just going to be like I said above the same type of stuff they submitted for the visa along with her statement that she entered in god faith. Your friend can submit a letter to USCIS that will get attached to his file where he can explain (and it would be be best if it it could have some kind of Drs statement to support it) that he is slightly mentally disabled and feels as if his bride used him to gain entry to the US. He can explain the limited contact they had. or the extent of their marital relationship long distance. That it was an arranged marriage etc. His parents or someone can even assists him with writing it, as long as he signs it and adds something like all of the above statements are truthful to the best of my ability.

I do very much understand the dilemma here as Mark laid it out

Paying the money will ensure a quick divorce but it will also probably help her obtain her permanent card. Not paying the money may lead to a more contested divorce because she really doesnt have much evidence for ROC, she may try to get back to together with the husband to gain more evidence to ROC at a later date after she does get some joint bills in the US and stuff. She may allege cruelty or abuse in the divorce or bring up his mental condition which would be a dirty tactic because she was aware of it but shed be in a desperate place because she needs something in the divorce to help with her ROC if its not going to be a generous alimony.

So the family has to consider the emotional needs of their son vs the financial cost to them vs the need for justice against a scammer.

Its a very personal decision and no one should judge them whatever path they take.

WOW!! Thank you capri. This is excellent.

I will pass on all the information you provided to my friend and his dad this weekend. Thanks a lot for this excellent overview. I finally feel at ease.

[Greg3070 19]

My wife has left me and filed for divorce. We have only been married for 1.2 years and she tried to get a DV restraining order on me. She failed, so now she has tried everything else to remain in the USA, except working with me. Sort of angers me since I offered to work things out and she says no way. I called ICE and they say you can withdraw an afidavit of support within the first 2 years. Two times I have talked to ICE about her and each time they have said yes you can withdraw the afidavit of support so long as she doesn't have her permanent green card. I know this forum and others say this isn't true, but they keep saying it is. Very confusing.

I have tons of evidence to prove she married me only for a GC. I have an appt with USCIS on 12/20 and I will present it to them then. If they allow me to remove affidavit of support, that will be great, if not, then I request a fraud investigation based on my evidence. Either way, I wan't her out of here since she wont talk to me and acts as if I did something wrong. Very annoying, especially the $700 a month spousal support and attorney fees I am told to pay now! She even said I have to not report her phones stolen so she can keep them. I can't wait to let that account go delinquent, then her phone goes dead because I didn't satisfy the contract. Ha Ha.... I didn't cancel them, I just didn't pay them.

Why do these people insist on scams, why not just try to work with someone who liked you enough to bring you to the modern world? I will never get it.

[Boiler 45,931]

Did you ask them how?

You presumably read the I 864?

What does you Lawyer say?

[Villanelle 4,122]

Oh my goodness. Again this is a situation where someone in the government is reading from the government textbook in legal jargon that does not lets just say "translate well " into plain English and real life situations which causes a lot of misunderstandings.

You say " Two times I have talked to ICE about her and each time they have said yes you can withdraw the affidavit of support so long as she doesn't have her permanent green card. "

Where as Im sure they said something more to the effect of The affidavit of support (IT) can be withdrawn (cancelled) so long as she doesnt have her permanent green card (its only conditional)"

First the difference between the conditional card and the permanent card is the fact that someone who has the conditional card has to come back in 2 years to have the case reviewed again. If the case/application is still deemed legitimate and passes then yeah its over theres nothing you can do its set in stone (pretty much unless the permanent GC is revoked in the future) and the affidavit is solid. However if in 2 yrs the case is reviewed again and deemed not to pass and ROC is denied then the affidavit that went along with it- well its gone.

The misunderstanding here is the word YOU in your sentence. You can not withdraw the affidavit once the conditional card is issued. They can if they deny ROC.

It seems like youre taking the sentence of it can be cancelled on a conditional card and running with it. (ie its my affidavit so I should be able to cancel it- when that not what they said at all) So they technically did not lie to you.

You can try to prevent her from successfully ROC'ing which it seems you are trying to do based on your upcoming appt. You should refer to the how to report fraud thread in this forums (by Brian 1967) for what kind of evidence will and wont help you. However they will not allow you to withdraw your support form.

[Karee 4,191]

This is thread Capri is referring to:

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/topic/439326-reporting-fraud-to-uscis/

[VickyP 34]

My wife has left me and filed for divorce. We have only been married for 1.2 years and she tried to get a DV restraining order on me. She failed, so now she has tried everything else to remain in the USA, except working with me. Sort of angers me since I offered to work things out and she says no way. I called ICE and they say you can withdraw an afidavit of support within the first 2 years. Two times I have talked to ICE about her and each time they have said yes you can withdraw the afidavit of support so long as she doesn't have her permanent green card. I know this forum and others say this isn't true, but they keep saying it is. Very confusing.

I have tons of evidence to prove she married me only for a GC. I have an appt with USCIS on 12/20 and I will present it to them then. If they allow me to remove affidavit of support, that will be great, if not, then I request a fraud investigation based on my evidence. Either way, I wan't her out of here since she wont talk to me and acts as if I did something wrong. Very annoying, especially the $700 a month spousal support and attorney fees I am told to pay now! She even said I have to not report her phones stolen so she can keep them. I can't wait to let that account go delinquent, then her phone goes dead because I didn't satisfy the contract. Ha Ha.... I didn't cancel them, I just didn't pay them.

Why do these people insist on scams, why not just try to work with someone who liked you enough to bring you to the modern world? I will never get it.

Greg I know you are hurt and all that but seriously is it worth it to destroy you own payment and credit history for you wife?

Exchange phone numbers on that contract, let them send the sim cards to you or if the phone doesn't have a sim I would report it, which you said you are not doing.

I mean she is hurting you enough, why are you hurting yourself?

[Jessy_L 7]

Thank you Mark88, I will forward your advice to him. I really appreciate all your help.

Hi AT20000

I am not sure if you have read, but my friend is slightly mentally disabled. He has had this condition since birth, I have known him and his family for about 10 years and am sure they were not physically assaulting her. Their marriage was arranged (as many are in india), they boys family is a well established family in the US while the girls family is not. The girl has never had a passport until the marriage thus according to me, she seized the opportunity to a better life by marrying my friend just for the Green Card.

How did she find a 'problem' with my friend after almost 2 years of a long-distance marriage then all of a sudden has a problem with him right after she gets her Green Card in her hand. I know i would be biased to my friend, but i want her to get what she deserves.

Well, if he has the mental problem, no wonder that she wanted out. There is a BIG difference between have a long distance with mentally challenged person, and living with him 24/7,

No wonder now that parents wanted to pay 10k just to keep her quiet.

Poor girl ((

One more time, do not try to put more oil in this fire. Let the girl go.

[Jessy_L 7]

I think you two are totally missing the point. The VJ forum is here to answer questions of the OP, not to interpret a "would and could abuse, he's the evil person"-situation. This was not the question, and if the OP doesn't provide information about something like this, we as VJ members should answer to that what was given.

There are a lot of families who spend $10.000 just like someone else would just spend $10. And anyone who has children (and in this situation who has a mental challenge who might not be emotionally fit to go through the whole ordeal), I as a parent with the means would just pay her to to go away, too. Don't try to put things in a situation if someone is just looking for a specific answer and batter posters who are just sticking to the original question.

You're welcome Even if they decide to pay her to just go away, make sure there are things in writing (best drafted by a lawyer), so he won't have any further repercussions.

whatever you say. )) But there is NO rich or wealthy family who just drop money to some strangers (otherwise they all will be poor), unless they feel the need to do so. They clearly did.

And yes, the forum is for answering the question. Though the devil is in details. ))

He asked if it is the fraud to divorce one day after green card. It will depends ))

1) The girl was in arranged marriage

2) The guy has mental problems

3) the parents wanna pay her 10k.

Sounds like she was not who was frauding, more like on the other side of the fence. ((

Everyone has a right to change their mind, at any point of their life. Everyone even indian wife.

[Jessy_L 7]

Hi AT20000,

i just want to let you know, that she did know about his disability right away. Anyone can after spending a few minutes with him. Thus like 'Merrytooth' said, the marriage was not forced like think. She knew exactly what she was getting into and she didnt have any problems with his disability while being married for him for 2 years (long distance) and as soon as she gets the GC in her hand, she feels the problem. I find this a little bit like a fraud.

I am not the petitioner, applicant, nor a family member... but after knowing them for 10 years, i am no less than any other family member, thus i am just trying to looking out for them as they are very straight forward people who would not harm anyone, no matter what the other person does.

They have spent long periods of time together in india as well as their honeymoon, right after their marriage, how did she not realize and of the 'problems' then? My friends father is financially very strong and has made many investments such that his son (my friend) and his family would never face money problems. So she definitely wouldnt ever have to work 3 jobs in order to take care of him.

See, you answered you question. She is for sure not a fraud. If she would be fraud, she would stay with him and drain his money for much more.

She did not, she decided just to divorce.

She could have thought she whould marry him for good, but could not deal with him.

If she would be so evil, the way you trying to portray her here, she would stay and get his money not just the first green card.

She did not. Instead she honestly said : DID NOT WORK OUT. Changed my mind.

It seems that you are (and whoever) running after her and trying to punish her now, are very upset, that she did not play the role of the quiet and cheap sitter for the mentally disabled person.

How dare she changed her mind, and leave to get the real family with mentally normal person. She probably even wants normal kids one day, not from the mentally disabled. How dare she!

[Jessy_L 7]

Paying the money will ensure a quick divorce but it will also probably help her obtain her permanent card. Not paying the money may lead to a more contested divorce because she really doesnt have much evidence for ROC, she may try to get back to together with the husband to gain more evidence to ROC at a later date after she does get some joint bills in the US and stuff. She may allege cruelty or abuse in the divorce or bring up his mental condition which would be a dirty tactic because she was aware of it but shed be in a desperate place because she needs something in the divorce to help with her ROC if its not going to be a generous alimony.

So the family has to consider the emotional needs of their son vs the financial cost to them vs the need for justice against a scammer.

Its a very personal decision and no one should judge them whatever path they take.

1) Have you ever deal with arranged marriages and girls in one of such loveless marriages?

2) Have you ever had to take care of the mentally sick person 24/7? Imagine not just take care but sleep with him and be with him (in arranged marriage)?

__

what does parents of the bride tell about the situation btw? I bet they are angry with her, and about to cast her out of the family.

__

If you have not experienced all this, than you might see the girl as the scammer. Yet, fraud would not do the mistakes you named.

The girls who does not want to be married do.

[sidp69 1]

Well, if he has the mental problem, no wonder that she wanted out. There is a BIG difference between have a long distance with mentally challenged person, and living with him 24/7,

No wonder now that parents wanted to pay 10k just to keep her quiet.

Poor girl ((

One more time, do not try to put more oil in this fire. Let the girl go.

I am not trying to put oil in this fire, just stating the facts as i see them.

He is not completely disabled, he is able to take care of himself, and also run his fathers business while his father is out of town. So it is not as if she has to take care of someone who cant even get out of bed. They have spent lots of time together in India as well as outside which gave her enough time to find out how much of a handful he would have been. I just want to know, what did she find in 3 days (after she got her GC) which she couldnt discover after spending months together (before she had her GC).

If she was not a scam, she would have immediately gone back to her family in India rather than sticking around in the US, in search for something else (or someone else).

[Mark88 184]

sidp, has the family decided on what to do?

[Greg3070 19]

Oh my goodness. Again this is a situation where someone in the government is reading from the government textbook in legal jargon that does not lets just say "translate well " into plain English and real life situations which causes a lot of misunderstandings.

You say " Two times I have talked to ICE about her and each time they have said yes you can withdraw the affidavit of support so long as she doesn't have her permanent green card. "

Where as Im sure they said something more to the effect of The affidavit of support (IT) can be withdrawn (cancelled) so long as she doesnt have her permanent green card (its only conditional)"

First the difference between the conditional card and the permanent card is the fact that someone who has the conditional card has to come back in 2 years to have the case reviewed again. If the case/application is still deemed legitimate and passes then yeah its over theres nothing you can do its set in stone (pretty much unless the permanent GC is revoked in the future) and the affidavit is solid. However if in 2 yrs the case is reviewed again and deemed not to pass and ROC is denied then the affidavit that went along with it- well its gone.

The misunderstanding here is the word YOU in your sentence. You can not withdraw the affidavit once the conditional card is issued. They can if they deny ROC.

It seems like youre taking the sentence of it can be cancelled on a conditional card and running with it. (ie its my affidavit so I should be able to cancel it- when that not what they said at all) So they technically did not lie to you.

You can try to prevent her from successfully ROC'ing which it seems you are trying to do based on your upcoming appt. You should refer to the how to report fraud thread in this forums (by Brian 1967) for what kind of evidence will and wont help you. However they will not allow you to withdraw your support form.

****Let me Explain. I called ICE, the officer (or whoever answers the tip line) said very clearly that "You" (since I was the one on the other end of the conversation that would be me!) may withdraw your affidavit of support anytime during the first 2 years! No misinterpretation, no twisting of what I was told, no seeing things my way. I am quite fluent in the English language, I know what he said and I am confident that he told me that "I" may withdraw my affidavit of support. However, that does not mean he is correct and I understand this. That is why I am questioning it. Perhaps they do misunderstand the term withdrawl? ICE isn't exactly the same as USCIS, so perhaps what they understand as a withdrawl is different than what USCIS says. I am not saying anyone here is wrong or that I can walk in and say "Pull it". I am saying that ICE people are saying we can.

So now I will present my evidence of fraud and hope they start an investigation. I have over 100 emails that prove she had no intention of being my wife, other than to get her green card. Some of these were even in Ukrainian which I had translated and certified. My evidence is very strong according to an immigration attorney I consulted with. My wife is so scared she made several offers to give up support in exchange for me not reporting her to USCIS. the joke is that is unenforceable anyway, so it's pointless and illegal!