Fraud, please help!

[Mark88 184]

I agree. When you know for a fact that someone took advantage of you, they deserve to be brought to justice.

Especially if you think what will be next: The whole costs for divorce and court, court ordered financial support, support as the green card sponsor and a lot more.

If you could proof, that the marriage is a fraud, he will also have good chances in civil court, maybe even getting the marriage annuled. This also seems the cheaper option for me in a longer run.

[JayJayH 546]

Especially if you think what will be next: The whole costs for divorce and court, court ordered financial support, support as the green card sponsor and a lot more.

If you could proof, that the marriage is a fraud, he will also have good chances in civil court, maybe even getting the marriage annuled. This also seems the cheaper option for me in a longer run.

Exactly. The I-864 affidavit of support does not end with divorce. Unless the marriage can be proven to have been fraudulent.

[Mark88 184]

@sidp: if you take these things in consideration, it's very advisable to sit down with both an immigration and divorce attorney.

[Jessy_L 7]

I don't think if she can plan so many things, she doesn't know that it'll be very difficult for her to do ROC if she gets divorced.

especially when they have been married for 2 years>> but not living together, right?

(waiting time for her passport +gc process) >> What do you mean by 'waiting time for her passport'?

You know Some link is missing here...well I guess best suggestion here is to " move on..."

If they been married for 3 years, she does not have the conditional green card, she would have permanent.

[Jessy_L 7]

Especially if you think what will be next: The whole costs for divorce and court, court ordered financial support, support as the green card sponsor and a lot more.

If you could proof, that the marriage is a fraud, he will also have good chances in civil court, maybe even getting the marriage annuled. This also seems the cheaper option for me in a longer run.

Why would the OP punish himself even more?

One can always have the uncontested divorce i.e. without the court and expansive lawyers. It will cost only the filing fee, which is like 200 dol.

Especially if parents would cough up the demands of the wife. And why would anyone pay such a demand, just so?

Maybe there is something much more than OP told us.

No one who feel innocent pays 10k after 2 years of long -distance marriage, the people who wants to cover their misdeeds on the other hands do.

Annulment of the marriage after 2 years sounds funny )) 1) no one will grant it 2) it will cost more than simple divorce.

What kind of chances he would have in civil court? Don't even think about it.

What green card sponsor's support? Hardly any court enforces it, if the court will agree on it, it will be for the limited time fore she finds a job, for less than 1 year. (see the court cases)

And no one will let her apply for the fed. aid for government to enforce the affidavit.

Stop the drama.

OP, if your friend really was wronged, tell him NOT to pay 10k to the wife, and spend this money for the lawyer if she wants to go to court.

After 2 years of marriage there is nothing to share in divorce.

Let her file for divorce and file the paperwork (and hire a lawyer), than sign the paperwork, if she has a funny demands than hire your lawyer.

Before that spend your money on something else.

After the divorce just let it go. Do not hire immigration lawyer to revenge her, and do not listen to people who advice you otherwise. (Motion?! Is there a trail going on?!)

Just move on with your life and forget.

If your friend, on the other hand, was abusing her and mistreating her, so that is why she wants out. It's only fair for her to get her 10k and leave the loser behind.

[AT20000 38]

Have you been 24/7 with them to be sure that your friend was not abusing her every single day of her life? Then, I guess you would not think of getting a USC woman in trouble with authorities for dumping your friend, right? So, why should a woman coming from another country have no right to divorce her husband if she is miserable with him? Where is this entitlement coming from?

Also, USCIS officers are not taking their job lightly, If she has a GC it means that your friend has provided USCIS with proofs of bona fide marriage, mingled financial interests, etc...

So it is one of 2 things:

- Your friend has given false information to the USCIS and this is a felony,

- His wife has left so suddenly because she had a good reason to do so: he has been an a** all the way though or she does not love him anymore (which is her absolute right)

One or the other do you think that sounding the bugle on here is the right thing to do?

[AT20000 38]

If they been married for 3 years, she does not have the conditional green card, she would have permanent.

Nope Jessy, With a fiance visa you marry first and then go through the whole lengthy immigration process. For example I've had my 2 year GC 15 months after I married. I got married in Oct 2010, it will expire end of Jan 2014, that's more than 3 years after we got married. So his timeline is OK.

However it seems to me that there is more to this story than what it is said here, you are right no one who feels innocent pays 10K and walks away. Then, no one runs away so suddenly for no reason ( they were married for 3 years, let's say they don't get along what is the rush to run away unless she fears something?)

Then after the family has given that much money and moved on, and the husband has moved on also. Now the friend goes on a crusade against this woman and tries to seek revenge like someone has taken something away from him? Weird.

[sidp69 1]

@sidp: if you take these things in consideration, it's very advisable to sit down with both an immigration and divorce attorney.

Thank you Mark88, I will forward your advice to him. I really appreciate all your help.

Have you been 24/7 with them to be sure that your friend was not abusing her every single day of her life? Then, I guess you would not think of getting a USC woman in trouble with authorities for dumping your friend, right? So, why should a woman coming from another country have no right to divorce her husband if she is miserable with him? Where is this entitlement coming from?

Also, USCIS officers are not taking their job lightly, If she has a GC it means that your friend has provided USCIS with proofs of bona fide marriage, mingled financial interests, etc...

So it is one of 2 things:

- Your friend has given false information to the USCIS and this is a felony,

- His wife has left so suddenly because she had a good reason to do so: he has been an a** all the way though or she does not love him anymore (which is her absolute right)

One or the other do you think that sounding the bugle on here is the right thing to do?

Hi AT20000

I am not sure if you have read, but my friend is slightly mentally disabled. He has had this condition since birth, I have known him and his family for about 10 years and am sure they were not physically assaulting her. Their marriage was arranged (as many are in india), they boys family is a well established family in the US while the girls family is not. The girl has never had a passport until the marriage thus according to me, she seized the opportunity to a better life by marrying my friend just for the Green Card.

How did she find a 'problem' with my friend after almost 2 years of a long-distance marriage then all of a sudden has a problem with him right after she gets her Green Card in her hand. I know i would be biased to my friend, but i want her to get what she deserves.

[Mark88 184]

Especially if parents would cough up the demands of the wife. And why would anyone pay such a demand, just so?

Have you been 24/7 with them to be sure that your friend was not abusing...

I think you two are totally missing the point. The VJ forum is here to answer questions of the OP, not to interpret a "would and could abuse, he's the evil person"-situation. This was not the question, and if the OP doesn't provide information about something like this, we as VJ members should answer to that what was given.

There are a lot of families who spend $10.000 just like someone else would just spend $10. And anyone who has children (and in this situation who has a mental challenge who might not be emotionally fit to go through the whole ordeal), I as a parent with the means would just pay her to to go away, too. Don't try to put things in a situation if someone is just looking for a specific answer and batter posters who are just sticking to the original question.

Thank you Mark88, I will forward your advice to him. I really appreciate all your help.

You're welcome Even if they decide to pay her to just go away, make sure there are things in writing (best drafted by a lawyer), so he won't have any further repercussions.

[AT20000 38]

@sidp69:I am not sure if you have read, but my friend is slightly mentally disabled. Their marriage was arranged (as many are in india), they boys family is a well established family in the US while the girls family is not.

No offense Sidp69 but, I have tried to make you read between my lines but I guess I will have to be more literal. I have perfectly read and I guess I have perfectly understood what was going on since the beginning. I was sure there was such a marriage issue behind this story. And that's why I was advising everybody to NOT meddle.

I apologize for being blunt but: you are on US soil here and this implies ONE major change for you: the laws and constitution of the USA applies, not the Indian one.

For your own good, I repeat that I would "let it go" ASAP if I were you. Now to all the "very helpful souls" here, I would stress also that no one on this forum should help anybody to break the law (even if there is no evil intention from your part, behind this sipd69). There are LEGAL reasons for me to say that and here they are:

1 - Under the law here in America, any woman has the right to file for divorce if they have the legal grounds to do so, and forcing her to marry a mentally disabled person is against the law here in the US. Furthermore, doing so, gives her legal grounds to file for divorce (and to file for protection also).

2 - Now I would also stress the fact that in these conditions and under the US family law, being forced to marry a mentally disabled person has also given HER legal grounds to even file for annulment of this marriage as marriage by Force and Unsound mind are PRECISELY 2 of the reasons why annulment is granted here in the US. See page 2 of this form: http://www.courts.ca.gov/documents/fl100.pdf . It might have given her as well, the ability to sue the Heck out of her in laws for cruelty, and my guess is that it is probably why the in-law family has coughed 10K. (A US lawyer might have advised them to get over with, pay a lump sum to the bride (dowry issue?) & keep quiet ASAP)

In conclusion, you can always argue that it is the tradition in India as much as you want, it just does not matter here in the US. What matters is the reality of law, the country and the situation you are in. I imagine you would not dare to drive on the left side of the road (like in India) here in the US, and then tell the US policeman who just arrested you to get lost, because that's how people drive in India, right? (the same applies for a US citizen driving in India) Well... Why would it be different for other laws?

Therefore, for your own good, the only SOUND advice there is here to give you, is to drop it ASAP. Because, if she has a counsel, at going after her, seeking retribution against her, contacting the USCIS about her case while you have no right to do so, while she has a legal status and has the law on her side; you are going to get only one result: Being served with a restraining order for civil harassment (see this form http://www.courts.ca.gov/documents/ch100.pdf)!

Check paragraph #7 and you will see that what you do, fits exactly in the description of civil harassment (let alone if you hire a detective or a lawyer and contact the USCIS. And if her counsel figures this all out, then you could be very well in for paying her 10K also).

Now having a restraining order against you would definitely affect YOUR status here in the US and could ultimately draw the attention of the authorities on the practices in your friend's family. Are you still sure you want to go down that road? Think for a minute...

[Merrytooth 5,748]

@sidp69:I am not sure if you have read, but my friend is slightly mentally disabled. Their marriage was arranged (as many are in india), they boys family is a well established family in the US while the girls family is not.

No offense Sidp69 but, I have tried to make you read between my lines but I guess I will have to be more literal. I have perfectly read and I guess I have perfectly understood what was going on since the beginning. I was sure there was such a marriage issue behind this story. And that's why I was advising everybody to NOT meddle.

I apologize for being blunt but: you are on US soil here and this implies ONE major change for you: the laws and constitution of the USA applies, not the Indian one.

For your own good, I repeat that I would "let it go" ASAP if I were you. Now to all the "very helpful souls" here, I would stress also that no one on this forum should help anybody to break the law (even if there is no evil intention from your part, behind this sipd69). There are LEGAL reasons for me to say that and here they are:

1 - Under the law here in America, any woman has the right to file for divorce if they have the legal grounds to do so, and forcing her to marry a mentally disabled person is against the law here in the US. Furthermore, doing so, gives her legal grounds to file for divorce (and to file for protection also).

2 - Now I would also stress the fact that in these conditions and under the US family law, being forced to marry a mentally disabled person has also given HER legal grounds to even file for annulment of this marriage as marriage by Force and Unsound mind are PRECISELY 2 of the reasons why annulment is granted here in the US. See page 2 of this form: http://www.courts.ca.gov/documents/fl100.pdf . It might have given her as well, the ability to sue the Heck out of her in laws for cruelty, and my guess is that it is probably why the in-law family has coughed 10K. (A US lawyer might have advised them to get over with, pay a lump sum to the bride (dowry issue?) & keep quiet ASAP)

In conclusion, you can always argue that it is the tradition in India as much as you want, it just does not matter here in the US. What matters is the reality of law, the country and the situation you are in. I imagine you would not dare to drive on the left side of the road (like in India) here in the US, and then tell the US policeman who just arrested you to get lost, because that's how people drive in India, right? (the same applies for a US citizen driving in India) Well... Why would it be different for other laws?

Therefore, for your own good, the only SOUND advice there is here to give you, is to drop it ASAP. Because, if she has a counsel, at going after her, seeking retribution against her, contacting the USCIS about her case while you have no right to do so, while she has a legal status and has the law on her side; you are going to get only one result: Being served with a restraining order for civil harassment (see this form http://www.courts.ca.gov/documents/ch100.pdf)!

Check paragraph #7 and you will see that what you do, fits exactly in the description of civil harassment (let alone if you hire a detective or a lawyer and contact the USCIS. And if her counsel figures this all out, then you could be very well in for paying her 10K also).

Now having a restraining order against you would definitely affect YOUR status here in the US and could ultimately draw the attention of the authorities on the practices in your friend's family. Are you still sure you want to go down that road? Think for a minute...

I think you are the one not understanding the whole picture.

It is an arranged marriage in India.

The girl could have say NO to the marriage if she doesn't want to marry a slightly mentally disabled and stay put in india.

No one is putting a gun to her head to say Yes to the marriage.

So what cruelty are you talking about here.

Now, after getting the green card, suddenly "Oh my husband is slightly mentally disabled" is a big issue to her.

This sounds like Fraud to me. She is just using the guy to better her life in US.

[AT20000 38]

@Mark88: I think you are missing the point. What this family has done (i.e forced marriage and specifically forced marriage to a mentally disabled person) is probably legal in India, however, here in the US, it is considered illegal.

1- Fact is, that here in the US, no matter what the traditions are elsewhere, it gives to the bride, legal ground to marriage annulment (and maybe ground to order of protection and damages because this might be judged as extremely cruel) .

2- We are not supposed to help anybody if they break the law (even if there is no evil intention behind Sidp69) but more likely to tell them " watch out this is illegal" and let it go if they want to be stubborn.

3- Sidp69 has no business in this case. He is neither the petitioner, nor the applicant, apparently not even a relative and worse, he keeps on carrying out his crusade while the family has moved on. And this right there could perfectly result in him being deported (for getting charged with harassment of a legal resident).

Sure he needs this kind of "help"? I think he needs, for his own good, to realize that what he does is NOT legal here ASAP

[Mark88 184]

@Mark88: I think you are missing the point. What this family has done (i.e forced marriage and specifically forced marriage to a mentally disabled person) is probably legal in India, however, here in the US, it is considered illegal.

There is a huge difference between an arranged marriage, and a forced marriage.

[AT20000 38]

I think you are the one not understanding the whole picture.

It is an arranged marriage in India.

The girl could have say NO to the marriage if she doesn't want to marry a slightly mentally disabled and stay put in india.

No one is putting a gun to her head to say Yes to the marriage.

So what cruelty are you talking about here.

Now, after getting the green card, suddenly "Oh my husband is slightly mentally disabled" is a big issue to her.

This sounds like Fraud to me. She is just using the guy to better her life in US.

Merrytooth, I read fairly well, hence I know it is an arranged marriage in India. But on your side, do you naively think that any woman can say no to an arranged marriage and "stay put" anywhere? Time for you to read the news then! There are consequences to saying no!

Now you are basing your accusations on too many assumptions here. You are ASSUMING that she KNEW her husband was mentally disabled (I remind you that arranged marriages are decided by the parents ONLY), You also ASSUME that she was in age of understanding to which extent he was disabled, and this without even seeing him (they were thousands of miles away from each other and she was still in school before she arrived), you also ASSUME that she possibly had the medical knowledge necessary to evaluate the extent of his mental disability, you also ASSUME that she even was in age of being married (couldn't this be the real reason why she did not come to the US earlier)? That's quite a lot of assumptions to condemn her right there!

And even if she has accepted this marriage, isn't it acceptable that she might as well have realized later, once she was living with him waiting for her Green card (it takes about a year) how terribly disabled he was and that she might even never get to raise kids with him! Or that it was honestly too much to handle for her? Or that she might end up working 3 jobs to pay HIS medical bills.

And is any of that, your definition of "bettering her life" in the US Really?

Would you want any of this ordeal for yourself or your own kids?

Besides, there is a principle in US law that says: " ignorantia legis neminem excusat" It means in latin "Ignorance of the law does not excuse" therefore, the in-laws are supposed to know that "mental insanity" is a case for annulment of a marriage. They should NOT have ignored the law of the country where they live. Period.

I'd rather not walk in their shoes if she takes them to court because a family law judge is going to smash the heck out of them. That probably explains why they gave her 10k and moved on so easily!

[sidp69 1]

Merrytooth, I read fairly well, hence I know it is an arranged marriage in India. But on your side, do you naively think that any woman can say no to an arranged marriage and "stay put" anywhere? Time for you to read the news then! There are consequences to saying no!

Now you are basing your accusations on too many assumptions here. You are ASSUMING that she KNEW her husband was mentally disabled (I remind you that arranged marriages are decided by the parents ONLY), You also ASSUME that she was in age of understanding to which extent he was disabled, and this without even seeing him (they were thousands of miles away from each other and she was still in school before she arrived), you also ASSUME that she possibly had the medical knowledge necessary to evaluate the extent of his mental disability, you also ASSUME that she even was in age of being married (couldn't this be the real reason why she did not come to the US earlier)? That's quite a lot of assumptions to condemn her right there!

And even if she has accepted this marriage, isn't it acceptable that she might as well have realized later, once she was living with him waiting for her Green card (it takes about a year) how terribly disabled he was and that she might even never get to raise kids with him! Or that it was honestly too much to handle for her? Or that she might end up working 3 jobs to pay HIS medical bills.

And is any of that, your definition of "bettering her life" in the US Really?

Would you want any of this ordeal for yourself or your own kids?

Besides, there is a principle in US law that says: " ignorantia legis neminem excusat" It means in latin "Ignorance of the law does not excuse" therefore, the in-laws are supposed to know that "mental insanity" is a case for annulment of a marriage. They should NOT have ignored the law of the country where they live. Period.

I'd rather not walk in their shoes if she takes them to court because a family law judge is going to smash the heck out of them. That probably explains why they gave her 10k and moved on so easily!

Hi AT20000,

i just want to let you know, that she did know about his disability right away. Anyone can after spending a few minutes with him. Thus like 'Merrytooth' said, the marriage was not forced like think. She knew exactly what she was getting into and she didnt have any problems with his disability while being married for him for 2 years (long distance) and as soon as she gets the GC in her hand, she feels the problem. I find this a little bit like a fraud.

I am not the petitioner, applicant, nor a family member... but after knowing them for 10 years, i am no less than any other family member, thus i am just trying to looking out for them as they are very straight forward people who would not harm anyone, no matter what the other person does.

They have spent long periods of time together in india as well as their honeymoon, right after their marriage, how did she not realize and of the 'problems' then? My friends father is financially very strong and has made many investments such that his son (my friend) and his family would never face money problems. So she definitely wouldnt ever have to work 3 jobs in order to take care of him.

I think you are the one not understanding the whole picture.

It is an arranged marriage in India.

The girl could have say NO to the marriage if she doesn't want to marry a slightly mentally disabled and stay put in india.

No one is putting a gun to her head to say Yes to the marriage.

So what cruelty are you talking about here.

Now, after getting the green card, suddenly "Oh my husband is slightly mentally disabled" is a big issue to her.

This sounds like Fraud to me. She is just using the guy to better her life in US.

There is a huge difference between an arranged marriage, and a forced marriage.

Thank you Mark88 and Merrytooth for your help. I am going to speak to him this weekend.

Thanks