What would you do

[peezey 0]

clearly you've never been to the gulf, or know anything about the region in regards to how these things work in KSA or the Emirates, etc. and yes, depending on their social class and the like, some may be willing to embrace any and all opportunity, no matter how menial. But for the majority of those in higher social stratospheres, doing so would be of far heavier consequence, and is not something that can be just checked at the door the day someone arrives.

Why is this clear? I'd also like to know how many people in the "higher social stratospheres" of KSA and UAE seek immigration to the US.

[edsperfect 25]

Lillian, Nice to see you here! Have fun and do not get into too much trouble!

Fpr those with not much ofa grasp of the English language sometimes it is difficult to find good work. For those that can communicate there should be no problem getting good work depending on his skills.

Ifone doen't want to work but would ratherhave his spouse support him then i think there is something wrong with that relationship

[Henia 11]

I am wondering what you would do or think if your fiance/husband got here and decided he didn't want to work or that he wouldn't work because he doesn't want to start with a low paying job.

I wanted to add that this isn't only for MENA posters but I would like the topic to stay in MENA if possible, thanks!

I think generally there is NO excuse... In the US there are tooooooo many opportunties for those who WANT to work... cos even Wal-mart or Burger King is a paying job... considering where alot of our men come from... it is a step up, not down. I mean my husband has several degrees and a profession he can use anywhere, but he knows first and foremost his family comes first...even if that means working a "lower" jobs. I mean the first months, it is hard I know...was hard for me too...but after let's say 7months, no work... that is just a shame. Even hard times donnot last that long. Also I guess it would depend if my husband were actively looking or just being lazy...buuuuuuuut if he were being just lazy...then I show him the airlines ticket prices...and send him a' packing... I need a boat motor , not a boat anchor!

I would also like to add, I know about a dozen or so Russians, Arabes and Mexicans who have little or no langugae skills yet still manage to work...so not knowing English is not an excuse...And everyone knows learning a language as an adult comes more from being around people, then any book learning.

Edited December 17, 2006 by Henia

[lilofdevine 0]

Amen to that last comment. NO EXCUSE

[jordanianprincess 0]

Anyone that has a fiance here, I am sure their fiances' are very well educated because I really havent met anyone from the Middle East that does not have a college degree. Now they also all know that coming here they would face extreme difficulties, its a culture shock and also finding employment even for US Citizens can be difficult. Thank God they have us that are very understanding, supportive, and extremely compasionate to their situation. We are always willing to jump in and help them in anyway possible.

Can you please share what your source of information is for this?

[Ban Hammer 13,334]

Anyone that has a fiance here, I am sure their fiances' are very well educated because I really havent met anyone from the Middle East that does not have a college degree. Now they also all know that coming here they would face extreme difficulties, its a culture shock and also finding employment even for US Citizens can be difficult. Thank God they have us that are very understanding, supportive, and extremely compasionate to their situation. We are always willing to jump in and help them in anyway possible.

Can you please share what your source of information is for this?

and just where have you been today?

[jordanianprincess 0]

Anyone that has a fiance here, I am sure their fiances' are very well educated because I really havent met anyone from the Middle East that does not have a college degree. Now they also all know that coming here they would face extreme difficulties, its a culture shock and also finding employment even for US Citizens can be difficult. Thank God they have us that are very understanding, supportive, and extremely compasionate to their situation. We are always willing to jump in and help them in anyway possible.

Can you please share what your source of information is for this?

and just where have you been today?

LOL, I'm out of town. I just found some time to sneak on.

[Killer_Clown_2009 0]

It would depend on our financial situation and if we could afford it. If we needed more cash for rent/food, I'd expect him to find some sort of temp work while looking for a job he really wanted. It would also depend on if he was secretly lazy and didn't really wan to work at all.

[Ban Hammer 13,334]

Anyone that has a fiance here, I am sure their fiances' are very well educated because I really havent met anyone from the Middle East that does not have a college degree. Now they also all know that coming here they would face extreme difficulties, its a culture shock and also finding employment even for US Citizens can be difficult. Thank God they have us that are very understanding, supportive, and extremely compasionate to their situation. We are always willing to jump in and help them in anyway possible.

Can you please share what your source of information is for this?

and just where have you been today?

LOL, I'm out of town. I just found some time to sneak on.

no excuse.......you're supposed to spend 10 hours or more a day on vj.

[mybackpages 0]

Anyone that has a fiance here, I am sure their fiances' are very well educated because I really havent met anyone from the Middle East that does not have a college degree. Now they also all know that coming here they would face extreme difficulties, its a culture shock and also finding employment even for US Citizens can be difficult. Thank God they have us that are very understanding, supportive, and extremely compasionate to their situation. We are always willing to jump in and help them in anyway possible.

Can you please share what your source of information is for this?

Hey JP! Having fun?

I think Lillian was talking about her own experiences only. What she sees in her community and from people she knows.

[Bosco 1]

So going back to the main point, and that is about getting a job, what is it that someone lacks, if it's not work ethic, should they not get a job in a timeframe that might be considered reasonable, amongst reasonable people, considering all the roadblocks we've addressed in this thread?

I really don't think this is a matter of work ethnic but rather a totally different perspective as Aquol suggested earlier in the thread.

Many of the Americans here have expressed that to work any job is better than to work none. I don't think this notion is as widely accepted in MENA countries, and it certainly has not been my experience although there have been exceptions.

For many (not ALL, before anyone flips out) MENA families, the bigger shame would be for a jobless family member to accept a menial job and "work like a donkey" when other family members are able to provide - especially when the jobless family member has a college degree. The shame would be on the family for sending that family member out to do something physically demanding and possibly demeaning (because of how they will be treated by their boss) for an extra $50 or so a month. I do think there is almost a caste-like mindset of what jobs are acceptable for certain families, although this isn't true for MENA as a whole. I don't think you can apply the thoughts expressed by Americans here that any job is better than none to a group of people that often think differently and state their work ethic is lacking. When my husband got his law degree, there is no way his father would have accepted for him to go work at the tanneries or something of the sort. However, I feel both my FIL and my husband have very strong work ethics.

So, someone moves here with this mindset and their wife has a decent job and is able to provide. I can see where someone would not want to accept a menial job. I am not saying it is realistic to come here and think you will start higher up, but I don't think this is necessarily about work ethic. It is about a different mindset - and one that will probably need to change if they do plan on getting ahead here.

Also, working hard doesn't necessarily get you ahead in MENA countries. Degrees, who you know, baksheesh, etc all play a big role.

Obviously, if the family is struggling, this does not apply. I don't think anyone would accept for a family to go hungry because someone's pride doesn't allow them to accept a certain job.

[peezey 0]

Many of the Americans here have expressed that to work any job is better than to work none. I don't think this notion is as widely accepted in MENA countries, and it certainly has not been my experience although there have been exceptions.

For many (not ALL, before anyone flips out) MENA families, the bigger shame would be for a jobless family member to accept a menial job and "work like a donkey" when other family members are able to provide - especially when the jobless family member has a college degree. The shame would be on the family for sending that family member out to do something physically demanding and possibly demeaning (because of how they will be treated by their boss) for an extra $50 or so a month. I do think there is almost a caste-like mindset of what jobs are acceptable for certain families, although this isn't true for MENA as a whole. I don't think you can apply the thoughts expressed by Americans here that any job is better than none to a group of people that often think differently and state their work ethic is lacking. When my husband got his law degree, there is no way his father would have accepted for him to go work at the tanneries or something of the sort. However, I feel both my FIL and my husband have very strong work ethics.

So, someone moves here with this mindset and their wife has a decent job and is able to provide. I can see where someone would not want to accept a menial job. I am not saying it is realistic to come here and think you will start higher up, but I don't think this is necessarily about work ethic. It is about a different mindset - and one that will probably need to change if they do plan on getting ahead here.

Also, working hard doesn't necessarily get you ahead in MENA countries. Degrees, who you know, baksheesh, etc all play a big role.

Obviously, if the family is struggling, this does not apply. I don't think anyone would accept for a family to go hungry because someone's pride doesn't allow them to accept a certain job.

I don't know that anyone has suggested degrading work here, and those jobs that have been suggested usually pay $8-10/hr which is more money in one day here than one would make in Morocco in a month for a much more demanding phsyical job.

ETA: these are hourly rates in CA, I would assume in other states, the rate would be comparable for that particular COL.

Edited December 17, 2006 by peezey

[Bosco 1]

Many of the Americans here have expressed that to work any job is better than to work none. I don't think this notion is as widely accepted in MENA countries, and it certainly has not been my experience although there have been exceptions.

For many (not ALL, before anyone flips out) MENA families, the bigger shame would be for a jobless family member to accept a menial job and "work like a donkey" when other family members are able to provide - especially when the jobless family member has a college degree. The shame would be on the family for sending that family member out to do something physically demanding and possibly demeaning (because of how they will be treated by their boss) for an extra $50 or so a month. I do think there is almost a caste-like mindset of what jobs are acceptable for certain families, although this isn't true for MENA as a whole. I don't think you can apply the thoughts expressed by Americans here that any job is better than none to a group of people that often think differently and state their work ethic is lacking. When my husband got his law degree, there is no way his father would have accepted for him to go work at the tanneries or something of the sort. However, I feel both my FIL and my husband have very strong work ethics.

So, someone moves here with this mindset and their wife has a decent job and is able to provide. I can see where someone would not want to accept a menial job. I am not saying it is realistic to come here and think you will start higher up, but I don't think this is necessarily about work ethic. It is about a different mindset - and one that will probably need to change if they do plan on getting ahead here.

Also, working hard doesn't necessarily get you ahead in MENA countries. Degrees, who you know, baksheesh, etc all play a big role.

Obviously, if the family is struggling, this does not apply. I don't think anyone would accept for a family to go hungry because someone's pride doesn't allow them to accept a certain job.

I don't know that anyone has suggested degrading work here, and those jobs that have been suggested usually pay $8-10/hr which is more money in one day here than one would make in Morocco in a month for a much more demanding phsyical job.

ETA: these are hourly rates in CA, I would assume in other states, the rate would be comparable for that particular COL.

I think degrading/menial is in the mind of the person. I think there are plenty of Americans with college degrees what would consider flipping burgers below them and "working like a donkey", just as college educated Moroccans might find working in the tanneries or on a farm below them. I am not saying this is MY opinion of either job, but these opinions clearly exist, and I think it goes far beyond work ethic in the case of MENA people where their families are able to provide for them.

I also think the fact that they would make more here is irrelevent because the cost of living is totally different. A person cannot live on $8-10 an hours in most parts of California just as they cannot live on $50 a month in most parts of Morocco.

[peezey 0]

Many of the Americans here have expressed that to work any job is better than to work none. I don't think this notion is as widely accepted in MENA countries, and it certainly has not been my experience although there have been exceptions.

For many (not ALL, before anyone flips out) MENA families, the bigger shame would be for a jobless family member to accept a menial job and "work like a donkey" when other family members are able to provide - especially when the jobless family member has a college degree. The shame would be on the family for sending that family member out to do something physically demanding and possibly demeaning (because of how they will be treated by their boss) for an extra $50 or so a month. I do think there is almost a caste-like mindset of what jobs are acceptable for certain families, although this isn't true for MENA as a whole. I don't think you can apply the thoughts expressed by Americans here that any job is better than none to a group of people that often think differently and state their work ethic is lacking. When my husband got his law degree, there is no way his father would have accepted for him to go work at the tanneries or something of the sort. However, I feel both my FIL and my husband have very strong work ethics.

So, someone moves here with this mindset and their wife has a decent job and is able to provide. I can see where someone would not want to accept a menial job. I am not saying it is realistic to come here and think you will start higher up, but I don't think this is necessarily about work ethic. It is about a different mindset - and one that will probably need to change if they do plan on getting ahead here.

Also, working hard doesn't necessarily get you ahead in MENA countries. Degrees, who you know, baksheesh, etc all play a big role.

Obviously, if the family is struggling, this does not apply. I don't think anyone would accept for a family to go hungry because someone's pride doesn't allow them to accept a certain job.

I don't know that anyone has suggested degrading work here, and those jobs that have been suggested usually pay $8-10/hr which is more money in one day here than one would make in Morocco in a month for a much more demanding phsyical job.

ETA: these are hourly rates in CA, I would assume in other states, the rate would be comparable for that particular COL.

I think degrading/menial is in the mind of the person. I think there are plenty of Americans with college degrees what would consider flipping burgers below them and "working like a donkey", just as college educated Moroccans might find working in the tanneries or on a farm below them. I am not saying this is MY opinion of either job, but these opinions clearly exist, and I think it goes far beyond work ethic in the case of MENA people where their families are able to provide for them.

I also think the fact that they would make more here is irrelevent because the cost of living is totally different. A person cannot live on $8-10 an hours in most parts of California just as they cannot live on $50 a month in most parts of Morocco.

I'm not saying you think this, I'm saying that I find this mindset elitist and dismissive of respectable work and the people who do this work everyday. I also think there must be concessions made by anyone, American or immigrant, who is literally starting over, so it is my opinion that one should not come here with the intent to apply any notion from back home of being too good for any particular work. When circumstances became such that I had to move away for a couple years from my home & job (with 2 years of college under my belt) I moved to a small military town with zero prospects for a professional job similar to the one I left. So, I fell back on what I did in high school, because rent had to be paid: I worked part time at a bank, and full time as a manager of a KFC, and took classes at night at a community college 40 miles away.

In the $8-10/hour scenario, I'm not talking about what one could live on, we are talking about 1st jobs, and a job that contributes as a 2nd income. Americans who think this work is below them, college degree or not, are ridiculous, IMO, too. You can't even be considered for a department manager position, let alone assistant or store manager, at Home Depot here in CA **without** a college degree, and a manager position at McDs requires a college degree now. But that is because the job pays $100,000.

I wouldn't have had month long vacations every summer growing up, a big house to live in, shopping whenever I wanted it, college paid for, huge help financially whenever I need(ed) it (the same for 2 brothers), my mother only working when she wanted to, were it not for my father working in fast food for most of his adult life (cooking chicken for 20 years until he could get in on a franchise), and then going into retail once he retired from that. This is why I said earlier nothing can be dismissed out of hand, there are opportunities in places one might not consider because it's automatically considered menial.

I think if after several months in the US a job that matches one's education or technical skills cannot be found, and this person refuses work outside their expectations, it shows a lack of work ethic. Becacuse then they are doing nothing.

[mybackpages 0]

I think its a very real reality that moving to a new country is starting over from nothing. Sure some people immigrate and bring more skills, degress, money than others and that might make the starting over a bit easier, but it is not guarenteed. Some people have a personality that is more suited to adapting to a new enviroment than others and that can help the starting over process. I've found that the most sucessful immigrants have a few common characteristics as a group and none of these have to do with social class, edication or work experience.