What would you do

[peezey 0]

Anyone that has a fiance here, I am sure their fiances' are very well educated because I really havent met anyone from the Middle East that does not have a college degree. Now they also all know that coming here they would face extreme difficulties, its a culture shock and also finding employment even for US Citizens can be difficult. Thank God they have us that are very understanding, supportive, and extremely compasionate to their situation. We are always willing to jump in and help them in anyway possible.

This is totally untrue.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

A close relative of mine is married to man who was trained as a doctor in Egypt. He came to the US on a residency, but completed the residency and decided to become a businessman. Now, he manages their real estate investments. Being a doctor in the US pays well, but insurance and so many other factors turns some immigrants away from medicine toward less problematic ventures.

Anyone that has a fiance here, I am sure their fiances' are very well educated because I really havent met anyone from the Middle East that does not have a college degree. Now they also all know that coming here they would face extreme difficulties, its a culture shock and also finding employment even for US Citizens can be difficult. Thank God they have us that are very understanding, supportive, and extremely compasionate to their situation. We are always willing to jump in and help them in anyway possible.

This is totally untrue.

I thought that was a rather narrow perspective also. There are plenty of MEs with no education or less than a college degree, even as immigrants.

[mybackpages 0]

Anyone that has a fiance here, I am sure their fiances' are very well educated because I really havent met anyone from the Middle East that does not have a college degree. Now they also all know that coming here they would face extreme difficulties, its a culture shock and also finding employment even for US Citizens can be difficult. Thank God they have us that are very understanding, supportive, and extremely compasionate to their situation. We are always willing to jump in and help them in anyway possible.

This is totally untrue.

My fiance is not well educated. Bright, intelligent yes. educated no.

[lilofdevine 0]

Anyone that has a fiance here, I am sure their fiances' are very well educated because I really havent met anyone from the Middle East that does not have a college degree. Now they also all know that coming here they would face extreme difficulties, its a culture shock and also finding employment even for US Citizens can be difficult. Thank God they have us that are very understanding, supportive, and extremely compasionate to their situation. We are always willing to jump in and help them in anyway possible.

This is totally untrue.

My fiance is not well educated. Bright, intelligent yes. educated no.

My bad ok then delete that sentence from my entire paragraph, but if we see all the responses to this topic, there are a lot of well educated fiances out there. I read about a doctor, pharmaceutical work, real estate investor, math teacher, carpenter. So lets chuck it up to work ethics. If you are not well educated then you got to have work ethics. You will probably do anything to bring home the bacon to support your family, so a degree is not really needed, work ethics are needed.

[peezey 0]

Anyone that has a fiance here, I am sure their fiances' are very well educated because I really havent met anyone from the Middle East that does not have a college degree. Now they also all know that coming here they would face extreme difficulties, its a culture shock and also finding employment even for US Citizens can be difficult. Thank God they have us that are very understanding, supportive, and extremely compasionate to their situation. We are always willing to jump in and help them in anyway possible.

This is totally untrue.

My fiance is not well educated. Bright, intelligent yes. educated no.

My bad ok then delete that sentence from my entire paragraph, but if we see all the responses to this topic, there are a lot of well educated fiances out there. I read about a doctor, pharmaceutical work, real estate investor, math teacher, carpenter. So lets chuck it up to work ethics. If you are not well educated then you got to have work ethics. You will probably do anything to bring home the bacon to support your family, so a degree is not really needed, work ethics are needed.

I said I work in the pharma industry. I'm not an immigrant. You're right, it is work ethic. But also ego, culture, and as we have found more than once, there are mooching losers.

[mybackpages 0]

[LaL 418]

[effortless 0]

What's a "work ethic" then? Who's doing the defining, and who are they applying said definition to? There's hardly a universal definition of such. You can't arbitrarily attribute a phenomenon to what you as an American believe is a rejection of a "work ethic" to someone who isn't even from there and who's social and cultural constraints, values, standards, and just generalised norms are not the same as yours.

[peezey 0]

What's a "work ethic" then? Who's doing the defining, and who are they applying said definition to? There's hardly a universal definition of such. You can't arbitrarily attribute a phenomenon to what you as an American believe is a rejection of a "work ethic" to someone who isn't even from there and who's social and cultural constraints, values, standards, and just generalised norms are not the same as yours.

Which culture does not have an ethic of working for food, shelter, security, in whatever for that might come?

[peezey 0]

Something else to bear in mind, as opposed to being just stubbornness or there being too much pride in accepting "menial" work in the US is the pervasive class consciousness/class systems of the MENA. What a good many Americans like to think of as "their" ideological affinity for mobility, that Americans can and do live, work, communicate seamlessly with individuals regardless of their social and economic class is a completely foreign concept in a good part of the world, (it's hardly exclusive to the MENA). It's a factor far bigger than what most Americans can comprehend.

We aren't talking about most Americans, we are talking as (mostly) wives of MENA men. People who have come to know cultures quite different than the one we were born into.

No one is saying there isn't difficutly in obtaining work, becoming comfortable with language, how to obtain a job, the pace of work and life, how work is done, office politics, etc. However, I would argue against the notion that MENA men do not understand the American ideology that class ladders can be traversed. Many MENA men think this is the land of the plenty, roads paved with gold and all that, plus is the land of opportunity. This very much indicates to me the our "ideological affinity for mobility" is something these men are anxious to participate in as well.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

The idea of "work ethic" has undergone a lot of change in this country. Used to be respectable to do your job and leave. Now, when you work thru lunch, take work home, work overtime without extra compensation, need to be always available on your PDA, cell and PC, THEN, you have a proper work ethic. Even non office workers in the service sector are often expected to work more hours than they are paid for if they want to retain their jobs. People from countries where they get two hour lunches, paid maternity leave and the like have a lot to get used to here.

Edited December 16, 2006 by szsz

[peezey 0]

The idea of "work ethic" has undergone a lot of change in this country. Used to be respectable to do your job and leave. Now, when you work thru lunch, take work home, work overtime without extra compensation, need to be always available on your PDA, cell and PC, THEN, you have a proper work ethic. Even non office workers in the service sector are often expected to work more hours than they are paid for if they want to retain their jobs. People from countries where they get two hour lunches, paid maternity leave and the like have a lot to get used to here.

Certainly the men don't have to get used to no paid maternity leave.

I've also found even in Morocco the 2 hour lunches are far less common, even in office work. People are living farther away from their jobs, would rather be paid for another hour, would rather get home to their kids. At least this is my experience in employing Moroccans. Fridays are ending later, but Saturdays are still regular work days, no compensation for the longer Friday.

But I know what you mean, it's a bunch of ####### around here, working around the clock now that everyone is connected technologically.

So going back to the main point, and that is about getting a job, what is it that someone lacks, if it's not work ethic, should they not get a job in a timeframe that might be considered reasonable, amongst reasonable people, considering all the roadblocks we've addressed in this thread?

[Aymerlu 3]

My brother started working at McD's in high school, now 12 years later he oversees all the stores in my city (8) and he makes a heck of a lot more money than I do with a college degree! Working his way up wasn't too bad for him.

[effortless 0]

clearly you've never been to the gulf, or know anything about the region in regards to how these things work in KSA or the Emirates, etc. and yes, depending on their social class and the like, some may be willing to embrace any and all opportunity, no matter how menial. But for the majority of those in higher social stratospheres, doing so would be of far heavier consequence, and is not something that can be just checked at the door the day someone arrives.

[mybackpages 0]

My brother started working at McD's in high school, now 12 years later he oversees all the stores in my city (8) and he makes a heck of a lot more money than I do with a college degree! Working his way up wasn't too bad for him.

exactly!