Oh Snap! Can anyone deny, Obama Nation= Food Stamp Nation? (The Obama surge)

[Pooky 3,807]

Corporations, particularly multinational corporations, are the most treasonous entities in America.

If you include both political parties in this evaluation, then you get closer to the truth.

With both sides on board for "comprehensive immigration reform", the inevitable follow-on influx of illegal immigrants is just going to steepen the slope heading to the bottom.

[Danno 1,228]

Danno, there are not enough jobs in this country that people can actually make a living on. That has nothing to do with marriage or education, it has to do with the fact that wages have eroded while profits have soared since the 1980's. It's a long term trend. It's the race to the bottom. You can deny that all you want but the facts are what they are: the facts. One out of three jobs in this country pays less than a living wage. Naturally, there will be many people unable to sustain themselves no matter how hard they try.

I'm not dismissing your point completely, don't think that, I am saying there are many more factors, one of the biggest being "we are not the same society."

One of the biggest things on the social side is family structure.

Research shows that men who marry earn more.

NOt just earn more but contribute to society in a host of ways.

If you compare equally educated men in the same metrics you will find married men are more serious in their vocation, they are more likely to work over time, more likely to strive for promotion and even work a second job.

So when you compare the huge drop in the marriage rate for men in their "power earning years" and you see most of that drop is in the mid to lower incomes, you can't ignore that effect of driving down the numbers.

Of course the loss of manufacturing is huge as well as the competition from the flood of unskilled labor.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

If you include both political parties in this evaluation, then you get closer to the truth.

With both sides on board for "comprehensive immigration reform", the inevitable follow-on influx of illegal immigrants is just going to steepen the slope heading to the bottom.

The political parties have long been acquired by corporate America.

[Danno 1,228]

If you include both political parties in this evaluation, then you get closer to the truth.

With both sides on board for "comprehensive immigration reform", the inevitable follow-on influx of illegal immigrants is just going to steepen the slope heading to the bottom.

Amen, they not only want to legalize those here, they want to throw the door open wider for more ....and stream-line the railway bringing them in.

[Protocol417 161]

You mean when a family consists of two working adults instead of one, they make more money? Or that families with stay-at-home moms tend to be a bit better off (which is what allows the mother to stay at home in the first place)? I'm shocked, I tell you... SHOCKED.

[Pooky 3,807]

The political parties have long been acquired by corporate America.

Something few people here like to admit.

Or maybe they just don't realise?

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

I'm not dismissing your point completely, don't think that, I am saying there are many more factors, one of the biggest being "we are not the same society."

One of the biggest things on the social side is family structure.

Research shows that men who marry earn more.

NOt just earn more but contribute to society in a host of ways.

If you compare equally educated men in the same metrics you will find married men are more serious in their vocation, they are more likely to work over time, more likely to strive for promotion and even work a second job.

So when you compare the huge drop in the marriage rate for men in their "power earning years" and you see most of that drop is in the mid to lower incomes, you can't ignore that effect of driving down the numbers.

Of course the loss of manufacturing is huge as well as the competition from the flood of unskilled labor.

No, Danno. You are still not getting it. It is true that we're not the same society anymore. We are now effectively all slaves of corporate America. That's what has changed. It has somehow become acceptable that people are compensated below what it takes to survive in return for an honest day's work. That acceptance was necessary in order for corporations to continue to grow their bottom lines. And that is the central issue.

Other industrialized nations have the same trends you refer to in terms of fewer people getting married, the structure of the family changing, etc. That trend started there earlier than here and yet they don't have as huge a portion of their population unable to support themselves on the compensation from an honest day's work. That issue is more prevalent in the US than anywhere else in the industrialized world. And nowhere is it considered nearly as acceptable as here that profits rise while the middle class vanishes. Nowhere would anyone buy into the nonsense that rising corporate profits are what will re-build the middle class. Rising corporate profits don't benefit the middle class and below, they come at their expense.

Edited October 28, 2013 by Mr. Big Dog

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Something few people here like to admit.

Or maybe they just don't realise?

Well, whoever says that isn't so is simply in denial. Our political parties and institutions are corporate whores. That's fairly obvious.

[Danno 1,228]

It's not about two working people earning more than one.... thats a given. It's about

The question is about why the lower skilled workers are making less A: they don't have the benefit of marriage that the earlier generation had.

[Danno 1,228]

No, Danno. You are still not getting it. It is true that we're not the same society anymore. We are now effectively all slaves of corporate America. That's what has changed. It has somehow become acceptable that people are compensated below what it takes to survive in return for an honest day's work. That acceptance was necessary in order for corporations to continue to grow their bottom lines. And that is the central issue.

Other industrialized nations have the same trends you refer to in terms of fewer people getting married, the structure of the family changing, etc. That trend started there earlier than here and yet they don't have as huge a portion of their population unable to support themselves on the compensation from an honest day's work. That issue is more prevalent in the US than anywhere else in the industrialized world. And nowhere is it considered nearly as acceptable as here that profits rise while the middle class vanishes. Nowhere would anyone buy into the nonsense that rising corporate profits are what will re-build the middle class. Rising corporate profits don't benefit the middle class and below, they come at their expense.

IN your view did business leaders suddenly get greedy, what prevented them from paying lower wages before?

[decocker 7,198]

The question is about why the lower skilled workers are making less A: they don't have the benefit of marriage that the earlier generation had.

yes, lower skilled workers can expect much higher wages, if married. it's that simple.

if you need another raise, make sure you go to church and tithe every sunday.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

IN your view did business leaders suddenly get greedy, what prevented them from paying lower wages before?

There are multiple reasons. There's the global reach, for example, which wasn't as large decades ago as it is now. Absent policies to counter the effects, that puts pressure on wages. To name another, there certainly were disincentives decades ago to allocating major resources to executive compensation and dividends - Uncle Sam simply took too big a bite from those. Then tax laws changed the equation in favor of non-earned income. And unsurprisingly, that's where the money goes now. The national economy has been getting weaker over the decades because of it while corporations are getting stronger.

[Harsh_77 718]

Well, whoever says that isn't so is simply in denial. Our political parties and institutions are corporate whores. That's fairly obvious.

Just to clarify… just one party or both parties?

Wasn’t that the overall message during last 2 elections, clean-up, change, transparency….?

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Just to clarify… just one party or both parties?

Both. I thought that was pretty clear from my posts.

Wasn’t that the overall message during last 2 elections, clean-up, change, transparency….?

Yes. And wasn't that the message from both parties?

[Harsh_77 718]

There are multiple reasons. There's the global reach, for example, which wasn't as large decades ago as it is now. Absent policies to counter the effects, that puts pressure on wages. To name another, there certainly were disincentives decades ago to allocating major resources to executive compensation and dividends - Uncle Sam simply took too big a bite from those. Then tax laws changed the equation in favor of non-earned income. And unsurprisingly, that's where the money goes now. The national economy has been getting weaker over the decades because of it while corporations are getting stronger.

Yep we just saw $600+ million go to one company, I am sure poor programmer in that company is not going to see even a dime from that money.