False abuse claims.

[SingleDad2usc 71]

You still didn't explain hell broke loose, and you continue to insinuate she has no right to self-petition

[Caryh 5,206]

You still didn't explain hell broke loose, and you continue to insinuate she has no right to self-petition

Does he really need to though? The guy was venting over his own experience from his point of view. She has her's and she will go forward on the VAWA with her's. There's nothing he can do to prevent that. He may never feel the VAWA is justified, or maybe someday he'll see differently and think well maybe it was. Being abused yourself, I can see why you may want those accused to see it through your eyes, but it doesn't make his view any less valid to him, just as your's is valid to you. One thing I've noticed is many of these cases are not so clear cut, but then we only get one point of view, our own biases towards them and what we read into them.

[SingleDad2usc 71]

I was among the very few who supported OP at outset. He wanted a second chance; but he had to win in court first. He lost.

So the right thing was to report his loss and to humbly close. Instead, he returned a sore loser and continued that he wished her luck, but that she was a fraud. And that VAWA system is flawed, and DV system is flawed. "Nobody's perfect" but the system has to be. At least for those judged to be aggressive, and not necessarily for a victim.

Throughout, he refused to open how the marriage came about. But she/her family is a fraud. Hence the topic title

[Caryh 5,206]

I was among the very few who supported OP at outset. He wanted a second chance; but he had to win in court first. He lost.

So the right thing was to report his loss and to humbly close. Instead, he returned a sore loser and continued that he wished her luck, but that she was a fraud. And that VAWA system is flawed, and DV system is flawed. "Nobody's perfect" but the system has to be. At least for those judged to be aggressive, and not necessarily for a victim.

Throughout, he refused to open how the marriage came about. But she/her family is a fraud. Hence the topic title

He didn't really need to win in court to get a second chance, he needed to win her over. He lost. I think the guy admitted he did things that were not right. Is it really so easy to admit your mistakes?

VAWA is flawed, so is the DV system. There is no way to make the system without flaws. Both are open to abuse, and are abused regularly. Both are supposed to protect but still fail to protect some they are meant for. Are they being abused in this case? Maybe yes, maybe no, we'll never really know. Could be her VAWA claim fails, she never was abused, but just in a failing marriage and grabbed at this but it doesn't work. Again we'll never know. Apparently per the police report no criminal abuse occurred, or there was no evidence of criminal abuse to bring charges. I know in my own community if there is any sign someone has been hit, someone is going to jail if there's enough evidence to charge or not. I think most communities work that way now, and that he was not arrested leads me to believe no physical abuse was evident. Doesn't mean she wasn't scared out of her wits either, and he may never see that. And then to his point of view, yes the system is flawed. Again everyone knows its flawed, so what's he actually said that isn't true, other than state his opinion that his wife's case is fraud?

I think most of us know a person in pain is not going to see some things clearly, and he's obviously still in pain from this. When he lets go of the pain, maybe he'll see it differently, and also maybe he is seeing exactly the truth of what is happening. It doesn't make the VAWA or DV system any less flawed or open to abuse true. We all know it is, but a better system has yet to be proposed by anyone.

[SingleDad2usc 71]

Hey, no one tells him to be perfect. But he brought another "fraud" topic to an immigration forum. Every spouse doing that should at least reveal the root of their marriage

[Caryh 5,206]

Hey, no one tells him to be perfect. But he brought another "fraud" topic to an immigration forum. Every spouse doing that should at least reveal the root of their marriage

And you wish no one would ever bring up the topic of fraud because you're sensitive to it? So you want him to explain himself to you, to your satisfaction, for your own needs? Do you wish to discourage American Citizens who feel their spouse is filing a false VAWA complaint from posting? Should we grill every VAWA applicant just as harshly? But this topic wasn't about your needs, it was about his and his failed immigration journey. If you look, the area this was posted under wasn't the VAWA Support section, its the Effects of Major Family Changes on Immigration Benefits, and that includes the American Citizens and how they are affected and feel when things go bad to. It is extremely common for their reaction to be one where they feel false abuse complaints have been filed, and it looks like a good 30% of the time USCIS agrees.

[SingleDad2usc 71]

You seem to turn it into "special interests" bias. My point is very straight-forward: many men in this sub-forum claim their young wife fraudulently files under VAWA protection. Yet, they don't explain the root of the marriage: how did they court the young foreigner, and how their young wife eventually comes to self-petition. Very simple questions to the older USC gentlemen claiming fraud on behalf of their found love (in distant lands)

Edited December 3, 2013 by SingleDad2usc

[Caryh 5,206]

You seem to turn it into "special interests" bias. My point is very straight-forward: many men in this sub-forum claim their young wife fraudulently files under VAWA protection. Yet, they don't explain the root of the marriage

My point is you're grilling a poster and demanding personal information he doesn't wish to give out. I've seen many women come to this forum and claim fraud also, we don't go grilling them over information they don't feel comfortable giving. Nor do we grill people who claim to be victims. They come here for support, understanding and help, and not to be grilled to satisfy someone's need to prove something to themselves or the rest of the forum. Why is it so important to you that you feel you have the right to grill this person over information he wishes to keep private? Because of the "many men claim" view you have? Or is it the claim of fraud that bothers you so much that he should give up his privacy rights?

[SingleDad2usc 71]

The point is: don't come with one side of the story and allege marriage fraud. There are two in the marriage. When he crammed it in at the outset: it was hope. But when she breaks it up in the middle: it's fraud. Well, the hope didn't pan out

Edited December 3, 2013 by SingleDad2usc

[Caryh 5,206]

The point is: don't come with one side of the story and allege marriage fraud

I think I've only once seen where both sides of a story were told here. You're saying that should have been the only topic ever in this section, if you're placing your standard equally.

[SingleDad2usc 71]

I'm not pro one side or another or third. I'm pro objective treatment of your spouse. Maybe there would be less drama in the world and less cases

[Merrytooth 5,748]

The point is: don't come with one side of the story and allege marriage fraud. There are two in the marriage. When he crammed it in at the outset: it was hope. But when she breaks it up in the middle: it's fraud. Well, the hope didn't pan out

You came to this website with your one-sided story too. How your ex-wife filed for asylum, but did not declared she was married to you... (why exclude you in her application?? something fishy? , she didn't feel right about you?? Why??)

Out of the whole world, NYC is the best place to raise your kids with breathing problems.. etc

And you claims abuse from your ex-wife... Oh well.. one-sided story too.

[Caryh 5,206]

I'm not pro one side or another or third. I'm pro objective treatment of your spouse. Maybe there would be less drama in the world and less cases

I'm not pro one side or the other either. When someone comes with a fraud complaint there's only one thing to do, counsel them how to give evidence if they have any evidence, which they usually only have an opinion, and help them to to realize they need to move on and forget. It appears to me you're trying to prove this guy is wrong in what he feels. If he feels the system is flawed, I'll say damn straight, I totally agree with him. If he says he feels she's filing a false VAWA complaint, he might be right, he might be wrong. I know I'll never know the truth of the matter. He might feel she is but be totally wrong, he's just as likely to be totally right, but you're never going to prove it no matter what, no matter how much you demand he answers your questions. Even if he does answer them, you'll prove nothing. So whats the point?

It someone is here needing to adjust status after a divorce, or file for VAWA, or get support to get back home after a failed marriage, we might get an answer on how it turns out. But when someone is here saying they were scammed or a false VAWA complaint was made, we never or almost never hear the end result. And even then, was it the right one? Again we never know for sure.

Edited December 3, 2013 by Caryh

[SingleDad2usc 71]

You may notice that despite having on my own to raise two children from practically birth, I never cried about my marriage choice. The marriage didn't work out, and I carried the burden which a woman didn't want to carry. It had not been the easiest decade of nursing two special ed children - yet they sport record of attendance above the city average, and make their grade. As to abuse, it was proven in court and more - so that's the least of my problems. That the absent spouse never paid a penny of child support - that's a problem. Not sure who can advise on that.

I think Caryh displays calm approach, way more mature than a few mothers on this forum who were not judged to even be able to keep custody. Alas, the USCs are often heavy handed in life and posting. Just keep your humanism

Edited December 3, 2013 by SingleDad2usc

[Villanelle 4,122]

Well this thread has taken an interesting direction..

At first I refrained from posting on it because of how the OP began it. It was all Im going to be going to court to fight a restraining order (RO) but I have a lawyer and I have it all under control and Im not here looking for advice Im just venting a little about the system and how sad it is that Im in this situation etc.. He didnt want to get into the specifics of his story which is wise when there is an active court matter going on but I felt it a little foolish to not seek advice and be solely dependent on your lawyer.

There have been comments made that the legal system (family court/dv court/ RO judges) is all about money- Judges (lawyers) getting other lawyers money. And things about the more money you spend on a lawyer the better representation you will get. Like everything in life some of that is true some of its not. Spending a lot of money doesnt necessarily mean youll get a quality product. Research and knowledge does. Sometimes the best choice isnt the most expensive.

So with that said it seemed the OP was pretty confident with the choice of his lawyer and had placed an immense amount of trust in him getting the RO denied. Upon reading his initial post it seemed like I said foolish (to me at least being very familiar with the procedures) because of some of the things he was saying. The lawyer shouldve explained it is very difficult to get those types of orders denied but it is possible. He was talking about paying to get 'things subpoenaed(?)' which should have been totally unnecessary. There were several resources available to him that couldve been provided to him prior to going to the hearing that couldve helped him but he was closed off to receiving any help because he believed his lawyer had it under control. Nothing that was said in the hearing should have been a surprise and he should have been prepared to address it before going in.

So now he comes back and explains the order was granted and is disheartened by it and ashamed by the failure of the system. Well I personally dont believe it was so much a failure of the system but a failure of his defense and lack of understanding at the time of what was needed to not have it granted.

(from what I can gather about the back story the OP is probably around 40 - as he was married for 15 yrs prior to this- he met his new bride probably online and brought her here on a K1. They moved 10+ hours from his residence to a location in the US where she had family and friends to make her adjustment more comfortable and to start a new life together. He was definitely in love and committed to her to do this. They had a plan to file the AOS at a certain timeframe (perhaps financial) but prior to that they had a heated argument in which. as sometimes it happens things are said that arent meant- like if you are not happy here then go back home and he bought her a ticket home. Of course this couldve been resolved with a kiss and make up and an I didnt mean it. But sometimes due to cultural differences its not that easy. If she went back to her family/friends and said we had an argument and he bought me a ticket home. They may have been like oh no thats it, its over you have no AOS you better file for VAWA because you have no choice now. Sometimes things can spin out of control very easily.- Is that what really happened? I dont know)

As for the failure in the system and why it was granted:

The fact that you were not charged with DV or will never be charged is totally irrelevant when it comes to granting a RO. To obtain one the petitioner has to show they have a fear of the defendant . This can be shown based on an incident or a pattern of behavior. The fact that the police came and removed her from the home due to her calling them is an 'incident'. The vm's support there was an incident and the fact you were intoxicated on them did not help at all.

It was a very good attempt to try to show she was trying to obtain the RO to help with a potential VAWA claim but it should not have been surprising that the judge did not allow it. Potential equals speculation and any lawyer shouldve known speculation is not going to be allowed in. Esp with your bold statements here about "I never said I would deny her AOS' If you made statements like that in the hearing as well, it wouldve worked against you. You wouldve had to state she believed the relationship was over and she was not going to be AOS'ing because you purchased a ticket home (that couldve been entered in) and then proof that the immigration code would not have allowed her to adjust any other way besides VAWA- in which a RO is needed. (still would border on speculation but wouldve been stronger)

The fact that you dont live in the same state is totally irrelevant. Bringing it up is like a last ditch effort when youve got nothing else. Its almost like saying, yeah I know the guy is a danger to her but c'mon he lives so far away hes not going to bother her so we dont need the order now do we?

As Karee said Judges are reluctant to issue the orders and then have the defendant attack the victim because there is no order in place. However nothing she said in there shouldve been a surprise to you (he did not let me study, learn english, work, restricted my phone access, how I abused her for 2+ days in an 8 day period) and you shouldve have been prepared to address each one in advance.

As for the rest of the discussion in the thread re VAWA claims/approvals/fraud etc. I think its very good that you are choosing to close this chapter in your life and not get involved in her potential VAWA claim. The truth is her VAWA claim will have absolutely no impact on you legally or immigration wise. You can petition again and its not going to come back on you. A lot of USCs whose ex spouses decide to file false VAWA claims take the other path as they feel wronged and spend a lot of time and energy trying to block it and it causes them a great deal of agony.

Your only concern now should be the divorce and protecting your interests in it. Your spouse will try to get things written into re abuse as it will help her VAWA claim. This is something you do not want, because if it truly did not happen then it should not be in your divorce papers.