Calif. Gov. Brown vetoes bill banning semi-automatic rifles

[Peikko 1,575]

If you really care about UK crime statistics, go ahead and read this link. I suspect however that you have no interest in it at all except to bolster your nutty theory that the best way to reduce gun crime is to allow anyone who wants to carry a concealed gun wherever they want to the right to do so. It's a crackpot theory based on sloppy data but that doesn't stop you from believing it.

http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2013/feb/07/crime-statistics-england-wales-violent-sexual-offences

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

I did not write the article. It was published in a UK news source. It details violent crime in the UK.

If you care to detail exactly how it is "crackpot", then please do so. This is the typical response. say words such as "crackpot", "piffle", etc and give NOTHING to support it

Please, give us your hard hitting analysis of the figures, tell us how they are incorrect, give us your theory and defend your thesis. Or ####### off.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

I did not write the article. It was published in a UK news source. It details violent crime in the UK.

If you care to detail exactly how it is "crackpot", then please do so. This is the typical response. say words such as "crackpot", "piffle", etc and give NOTHING to support it

Please, give us your hard hitting analysis of the figures, tell us how they are incorrect, give us your theory and defend your thesis. Or ####### off.

[Peikko 1,575]

I gave you the tools to work it out for yourself, it's all there. Instead you prefer to use data you do not understand to draw conclusions that have no substance. Expect to be called out on it every time. Oh, and you might want to revisit the idea of asking fellow posters to '####### off' if you do not like their responses.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/5712573/UK-is-violent-crime-capital-of-Europe.html

Please read and debunk. Have fun.

It's been done time and again. Look it up.

Sorry to disappoint you Gary, but as usual you are wrong. Most of the violent crime that is recorded by the UK police force wouldn't even get a mention in the US system. A lot of 'violent' crime takes place on a Saturday night and is a result of alcohol induced brawling. Moreover, your data is old. This is 2013 not 2007. You may in your ignorance picture the poor old UK subject cowering in his home, terrified to go outside because of the gangs of violent, gun toting criminals, longing for the same gun rights you 'enjoy' but what you picture does not exist. England is a peaceful place, people are not terrified of getting shot by policeman, nor are schools surrounded by armed guards It's a very pleasant place and no one goes bankrupt because they visited the doctor and got sick.

Real world stuff? Here? How dare you?

[BatmanUSA 105]

I know some of you complain that I usually do not post the article, just the link...so here, this is to make all of you happy. Smile. UK sounds like a nice place.

_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

UK is violent crime capital of Europe The United Kingdom is the violent crime capital of Europe and has one of the highest rates of violence in the world, worse even than America, according to new research.

By Richard Edwards, Crime Correspondent

7:00AM BST 02 Jul 2009

Analysis of figures from the European Commission showed a 77 per cent increase in murders, robberies, assaults and sexual offences in the UK since Labour came to power.

The total number of violent offences recorded compared to population is higher than any other country in Europe, as well as America, Canada, Australia and South Africa.

Opposition leaders said the disclosures were a "damning indictment" of the Government's failure to tackle deep-rooted social problems.

The figures combined crime statistics for England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland.

The UK had a greater number of murders in 2007 than any other EU country – 927 – and at a relative rate higher than most western European neighbours, including France, Germany, Italy and Spain.

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It also recorded the fifth highest robbery rate in the EU, and the highest absolute number of burglaries, with double the number of offences recorded in Germany and France.

Overall, 5.4 million crimes were recorded in the UK in 2007 - more than 10 a minute - second only to Sweden.

Chris Grayling, shadow home secretary, said: "This is a real damning indictment of this government's comprehensive failure over more than a decade to tackle the deep rooted social problems in our society, and the knock-on effect on crime and anti-social behaviour.

"We're now on our fourth Home Secretary in this parliament, and all we are getting is a rehash of old initiatives that didn't work the first time round. More than ever Britain needs a change of direction."

The figures were sourced from Eurostat, the European Commission's database of statistics. They are gathered using official sources in the countries concerned such as the national statistics office, the national prison administration, ministries of the interior or justice, and police.

A breakdown of the statistics, which were compiled into league tables by the Conservatives, revealed that violent crime in the UK had increased from 652,974 offences in 1998 to more than 1.15 million crimes in 2007.

It means there are over 2,000 crimes recorded per 100,000 population in the UK, making it the most violent place in Europe.

Austria is second, with a rate of 1,677 per 100,000 people, followed by Sweden, Belgium, Finland and Holland.

By comparison, America has an estimated rate of 466 violent crimes per 100,000 population.

France recorded 324,765 violent crimes in 2007 – a 67 per cent increase in the past decade – at a rate of 504 per 100,000 population.

The Home Office says there has been a downtrend in overall violence for the past decade.

But last October it emerged that levels of violent crime in England and Wales had been underestimated for more than a decade because of a blunder in recording methods.

Ministers admitted that some police forces had not been recording offences of grievous bodily harm with intent as serious violent crime. When the offences were included violent crime figures immediately increased by a fifth.

Separate figures disclosed in May showed that the number of people requiring hospital treatment after being seriously hurt in street fights or assaults has risen 50 per cent in five years.

More than 20 people a day were taken to hospital accident and emergency departments in England last year after being hit, kicked, scratched or bitten. Alcohol is blamed as a factor in half of the incidents and raises further questions over 24-hour drinking.

Researchers admit that comparisons of crime data between countries must be viewed with caution because of differing criminal justice systems and how crimes are reported and measured.

A Home Office spokesperson said: “These figures are misleading. Levels of police recorded crime statistics from different countries are simply not comparable since they are affected by many factors, for example the recording of violent crime in other countries may not include behaviour that we would categorise as violent crime.

“Violent crime in England and Wales has fallen by almost a half since a peak in 1995 but we are not complacent and know there is still work to do. “

end of article

_________________________________________________________

So crime was HIGHER in the UK before, then they fudged the numbers and "crime became lower" and now the numbers are corrected and the crime is higher...but we shouldn't compare to other countries. Right. Got it. The best way to "debunk" this bunk would be to simply ignore it. I am sure some people will be able to do that.

I'll keep my gun, thank you.

This is very informative and detailed.. thank you for posting this.....

I am very interested and anxiously waiting to see an intelligent and detailed liberal/progressive response...!

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

This is very informative and detailed.. thank you for posting this.....

I am very interested and anxiously waiting to see an intelligent and detailed liberal/progressive response...!

The facts are out there and easy to find. If one really wants to know, that is.

Claim: "There are over 2,000 crimes recorded per 100,000 population in the U.K.," compared to "466 violent crimes per 100,000" in the United States.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2013/jun/24/blog-posting/social-media-post-says-uk-has-far-higher-violent-c/

Edited October 12, 2013 by Mr. Big Dog

[BatmanUSA 105]

this is all just entertainment for me, really....

I was just wondering if a liberal/progressive would take time to intelligently respond to Gary's post....

Obviously not....

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

this is all just entertainment for me, really....

I was just wondering if a liberal/progressive would take time to intelligently respond to Gary's post....

Obviously not....

Gary copied and pasted a telegraph piece. What's there to respond to other than letting the facts speak. The facts say that the comparison offered is invalid. Don't like the link? Should the whole piece that the link takes you to be copied and pasted? Would that make the response any more valid? Of course not. The comparison is piffle. Folks in the UK do not run around scared longing for guns to be carried by everyone. They really don't. Only in America do some believe that that approach offers more safety despite all the evidence to the contrary.

[Peikko 1,575]

Here's a good statistic for you, from the link I quoted:

540 homicides were recorded for 2011/12 – this is the lowest since 1989. Homicide covers murder, manslaughter and infanticide.

On census night 2011, the population of the United Kingdom (UK) was estimated to be 63.2 million.

In the US for the same yeary?

In 2011, an estimated 14,612 persons were murdered in the United States, ,and that same year the population of the US was estimated at 310 million. That's just murder, not the inclusive homicide rate provided by the UK data. Shall we try again on which society experiences more extreme violence per capita?

I think it's nice that the UK police take 'pushing' and 'shoving' incidents as violence against the person but I don't think that somehow translates as the UK population cowering under a tide of violent criminals because they are precluded from carrying firearms around.

[The Nature Boy 4,224]

Good for him

Liberal get emotional and want to ban weapons because of the way they look or operate. When they talk gun control they always start babbling about AR-15's etc, even though more people are beat to death every year than die by Assault weapons

We could have sensible gun control debate if Dems and Libs could act sensible.

We all know gun shows and AR-15's are not the problem

How about if you get caught with a handgun you did not obtain legally because you knew you could not under the law.

3 year Min sentence

I bet that would cure the problem

But then again it would hit the Dem base hard, so they pretend to do something, by making laws that only affect legal gun owners

LIB LOGIC.---Yes it's that bizzare

[Darnell 8,479]

I think it's GREAT the UK has a high violent crime rate.

I'm also glad I sold my flat in Liverpool, and my partnership in an IT firm there, and don't have to go back to that crime-infested country.

[Ban Hammer 13,590]

The facts are out there and easy to find. If one really wants to know, that is.

Claim: "There are over 2,000 crimes recorded per 100,000 population in the U.K.," compared to "466 violent crimes per 100,000" in the United States.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2013/jun/24/blog-posting/social-media-post-says-uk-has-far-higher-violent-c/

except this isn't about a meme....

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

except this isn't about a meme....

Well, I hate having to correct a moderator but it actually is. Look back in the thread where the discussion started.

No charge for my services.

How crude!

Note with the statistic given for the UK, it does not include that all important word "violent".

A load of piffle!

[Ban Hammer 13,590]

Well, I hate having to correct a moderator but it actually is. Look back in the thread where the discussion started.

No charge for my services.

no problem. i thought you were addressing a later post.