Ariz. to trim voting if citizenship proof lacking

[Crashed~N2~Me 970]

You would not do business with me because your business wouldn't be in the black long enough to pay your bills.

Another assumption? You're on a roll.

It occurs to me...we are arguing process. I get your question now. You guys blitzkrieg tactics are not easy to keep up with. My bad for falling behind. I will catch up.

Risk Management begins with identification = anticipation.

You, Cleo & MBD are arguing prioritization.

(I'm still busy...no.. not a problem...it's a money maker ...I will come back & address the Identification & then we can debate the prioritization)

Edited October 8, 2013 by Crashed~N2~Me

[Crashed~N2~Me 970]

What are you laughing at? Get back to work. There's many a Teabag needing a steeping.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

I have to ask, what proof is there that voter fraud is a big problem in this country?

There is literally no voter fraud that would be prevented by these measures.

IMO, the GOP is trying to eliminate a base of people who won't vote for them.

And that's exactly what this is about.

[Teddy B 17,252]

Another assumption? You're on a roll.

No assumption, based on the amount of money you see fit to waste on risk management, your company would not be able to sustain a profit.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

What are you laughing at?

It's not what I'm laughing at it's who I'm laughing about. Got a mirror handy?

[GandD 5,966]

(but) For the Dems to call an attempt to install a preventive measure absurd is blatantly absurd.

Funny. I thought the same about repubs wanting to push this through with so little reason to do so.

[OnMyWayID 1,489]

Funny. I thought the same about repubs wanting to push this through with so little reason to do so.

If loopholes exist eventually they will e exploited. While the effect on national elections is most likely nil (though with an electoral college specific target fraud could have an effect) I could easily see this being exploited for state or local elections where voter turn out is small.

There was a thread during the last election about the computerized voting machines and possible fraud. Virtually no fraud has been found but the *potential* was found. Nobody used the excuse "Well it has not happened yet, what are you worried about?".. No.. The audit failed, the vulnerabilities were addressed, and the machines were updated.. Go back and look and people are on opposite sides - the left screaming bloody murder at the possibility of fraud from the voting machine companies.

We can't make the system perfect but obvious loopholes should be closed. Arguing against closure because it has not happened yet is just.. well.. stupid. I'm sorry some of our citizens will need to get off their asses and get an ID if they want to vote.

Yeah I know its a ploy but the argument is legit...

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

If loopholes exist eventually they will e exploited. While the effect on national elections is most likely nil (though with an electoral college specific target fraud could have an effect) I could easily see this being exploited for state or local elections where voter turn out is small.

There was a thread during the last election about the computerized voting machines and possible fraud. Virtually no fraud has been found but the *potential* was found. Nobody used the excuse "Well it has not happened yet, what are you worried about?".. No.. The audit failed, the vulnerabilities were addressed, and the machines were updated.. Go back and look and people are on opposite sides - the left screaming bloody murder at the possibility of fraud from the voting machine companies.

We can't make the system perfect but obvious loopholes should be closed. Arguing against closure because it has not happened yet is just.. well.. stupid. I'm sorry some of our citizens will need to get off their asses and get an ID if they want to vote.

Yeah I know its a ploy but the argument is legit...

I don't have a problem with it. You need an ID to do most things. My only issue is we know it's just an excuse to cut down on the Democratic votes.

The GOP refuses to work with folks who won't/can't conform to their ideals so the next logical step is to get rid of them.

[Crashed~N2~Me 970]

It's not what I'm laughing at it's who I'm laughing about. Got a mirror handy?

You keep the mirror ...you're gonna need it...

I'm not gonna do your homework...I reviewed the following 2 documents. Your turn. Obviously a greater propensity for savings than expense. In fact, the opposition makes claims of expense without any numbers to back the claim. (while)The proponents point to (potentially) millions of dollars saved via prop 200. Any cost associated with implementation of voter citizenship proof is minimal to the state & most cost is carried by the voter.

Get your reading glasses & see for yourself:

1) Fraud / Risk identified

2) Fraud / Risk Quantified

3) Benefits Identified / Quantified

http://www.azsos.gov/election/2004/info/PubPamphlet/english/prop200.htm

https://www.azag.gov/sites/default/files/I13-011.pdf

You guys most definitely made unfounded/ biased - subjective assumptions & accusations. Why?

I do recognize G&D's POV = this will shaft a lot of poor peeps & others which typically don't vote for Pubs. Oh well...it's just politics. At least they don't have to pass it to know what's in it. It's an easy read.

& oh...The citizens of Arizona passed Prop 200. They obviously recognized the risk & the gain. They must have not drank the Kool-Aid.

(side note to Cleo - MBD comes on this forum every day using multiple denigrating phrases when referring to the GOP / Teabags...I don't cry about it & I don't read you chastising him for doing so.. why do my terms of endearment bother you?)

Edited October 8, 2013 by Crashed~N2~Me

[Crashed~N2~Me 970]

I don't have a problem with it. You need an ID to do most things. My only issue is we know it's just an excuse to cut down on the Democratic votes.

The GOP refuses to work with folks who won't/can't conform to their ideals so the next logical step is to get rid of them.

That's a result but ..take a few minutes to review the links I provided...it's tied to welfare fraud. Very shrewd way of packaging it but...oh well. It worked.

[The Nature Boy 4,224]

Voter fraud is a tiny % in all the cases I've seen. BUT, what the right really wants to do is limit people without IDs from voting. These people are not necessarily illegals. For some reason, poor minorities don't see any reason to get any type of ID card. Speculate the reasons you want, but I don't know where it is written that said decision costs someone a right to vote. Granted, I would speculate that most people with out any type of voter ID are trying to conceal their identity for less than reputable reasons. Some will be legitimate no doubt.

I think they're targeting more than illegals though. They're targeting citizens without IDs which is pretty wrong I think. Nothing ever comes without strings it seems.

Heck you can't buy a six pack without an ID..Come on

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

That's a result but ..take a few minutes to review the links I provided...it's tied to welfare fraud. Very shrewd way of packaging it but...oh well. It worked.

I've looked through it. I'm all for identification for voting and all other things. I actually think the GOP's core message is something a lot of folks could stand behind. Smaller government, bigger military, I can deal with that.

The problem has been, and until something changes, will be that message is saturated in hate. You can't call someone ugly and then wonder why they won't go to the dance with you.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

You keep the mirror ...you're gonna need it...

I'm not gonna do your homework...I reviewed the following 2 documents. Your turn. Obviously a greater propensity for savings than expense. In fact, the opposition makes claims of expense without any numbers to back the claim. (while)The proponents point to (potentially) millions of dollars saved via prop 200. Any cost associated with implementation of voter citizenship proof is minimal to the state & most cost is carried by the voter.

Get your reading glasses & see for yourself:

1) Fraud / Risk identified

2) Fraud / Risk Quantified

3) Benefits Identified / Quantified

http://www.azsos.gov/election/2004/info/PubPamphlet/english/prop200.htm

https://www.azag.gov/sites/default/files/I13-011.pdf

You guys most definitely made unfounded/ biased - subjective assumptions & accusations. Why?

I do recognize G&D's POV = this will shaft a lot of poor peeps & others which typically don't vote for Pubs. Oh well...it's just politics. At least they don't have to pass it to know what's in it. It's an easy read.

& oh...The citizens of Arizona passed Prop 200. They obviously recognized the risk & the gain. They must have not drank the Kool-Aid.

(side note to Cleo - MBD comes on this forum every day using multiple denigrating phrases when referring to the GOP / Teabags...I don't cry about it & I don't read you chastising him for doing so.. why do my terms of endearment bother you?)

Where's the voter fraud? None of the documents are evidence that there is any. Hot air all you got?

[The Nature Boy 4,224]

I've looked through it. I'm all for identification for voting and all other things. I actually think the GOP's core message is something a lot of folks could stand behind. Smaller government, bigger military, I can deal with that.

The problem has been, and until something changes, will be that message is saturated in hate. You can't call someone ugly and then wonder why they won't go to the dance with you.

I agree with that actually.

The GOP needs to back to it's Goldwater roots

equal rights for all

Let go of the abortion fight

Make the word rape the new N word. Never say it

Fundies have ruined the party

Still slightly better than the dems but not by much

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

& oh...The citizens of Arizona passed Prop 200. They obviously recognized the risk & the gain. They must have not drank the Kool-Aid.

And? Look, the good citizens of California passed prop 8 and they have since found out that they were misguided and wrong in doing so. That the citizens of Arizona passed prop 200 proves only that they passed prop 200 and absolutely nothing beyond that. They actually drank the tea party kool aid which is why they passed this nonsense to begin with.