High School Halts Publication of Honor Roll

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I want Colleges and Universities to treat everyone the exact same regardless of race.

How do you treat a wheelbound person and someone who can walk through the front door exactly the same as if that equals fairness? Is putting a ramp for the wheelchair person showing favoritism?

In the same context, what's wrong with a college to consider race among other things when admitting students for the sake of diversity? You don't think they consider other factors?

Not only that, many of the Ivy League colleges are notorious for nepotism - how do you suppose Dubbya got into Yale?

I'd still really like to know why you compared minorities to the physically handicapped.

At a guess - because certain minority groups have more socio-economic factors working against them than everyone else.

doesn't mean jack in this day and age....many a people have put themselves thru college...it's not the unobtainable dream it was back in the day.

Comparing them to the handicapped is insulting, and tbh, quite racist in itself imo

It's not the best comparison, true - but I think the point being made is that certain minorities have more factors working against them than equivalent whites.

Certainly a person can achieve success regardless of their social/economic background, but I would argue it is more the exception than the rule. There's a reason why certain ethnic groups, specifically blacks and hispanics form the vast majority of the nations poor, and its equally racist to suggest that it is because they are "culturally lazy".

Who's worried about the poor whites who don't have 'the oppty' to go to college?

oh that's right, no one

How many whites are live at or below the poverty line?

How many blacks and hispanics live at or below the poverty line?

Who cares how much % of each...if the goal is helping ppl...shouldn't that be for EVERYONE- regardless of race?

Oh wait, what am I thinking?

You are thinking that diversity programs are solely focussed on ethnicity. For a 3rd time... they are not.

[Pinocchio Liberal 268]

Ever think some people are just plain LAZY? I think the govament needs to start a new program called "sink or swim"

Edited December 15, 2006 by CarolsMarc

[Caladan 19]

Most of the admissions preferences at the top schools also try to recruit heavily from rural/poorer areas also for diversity.

Good point - "Diversity" isn't relegated merely to ethnic diversity.

And depending on the school, it's not much of a bump. People are acting like Harvard and Yale are letting in kids with C averages because they're black or Hispanic, and this just isn't the case. At this end of the spectrum, "increasing diversity" means "finding the kid who has made good in a public school and ensuring he applies to the Ivy League rather than just applying to State." It's more on the recruiting end than the admissions end. And the Ivies, at least, are really interested in regional diversity, so yeah, the poor white kid from rural Tennesee is someone they'd be interested in, though typically, since there's such a strong correlation between poverty and education, most Ivy League kids are upper middle class or richer anyway.

Part of it isn't just increasing racial diversity. It's trying to give someone a chance who has done the best with what they've had, and if what they've had is a crappy inner city school and they've still managed straight As, that should count for something over the kid who squeaked by with As and Bs but had daddy pay for the SAT prep.

A couple admissions officer acquaintances of mine have noted that it's very, very hard to find qualified applicants from non-traditional backgrounds, to the extent they're despairing because a) they don't want to let anyone in who is unqualified and B) it's really hard to get into an elite school when the public school system is so broken.

So all this handwringing about diversity bewilders me. It's worth about 80 points on the SAT at most. And in practice, quite a lot of the time there's no meaningful difference in score, and it comes down to 'Well, we can let in another prep school brat with a 1500 score or we can let in this girl from south central L.A. with a 1490.'

[Jenn! 918]

And depending on the school, it's not much of a bump. People are acting like Harvard and Yale are letting in kids with C averages because they're black or Hispanic, and this just isn't the case. At this end of the spectrum, "increasing diversity" means "finding the kid who has made good in a public school and ensuring he applies to the Ivy League rather than just applying to State." It's more on the recruiting end than the admissions end. And the Ivies, at least, are really interested in regional diversity, so yeah, the poor white kid from rural Tennesee is someone they'd be interested in, though typically, since there's such a strong correlation between poverty and education, most Ivy League kids are upper middle class or richer anyway.

Part of it isn't just increasing racial diversity. It's trying to give someone a chance who has done the best with what they've had, and if what they've had is a crappy inner city school and they've still managed straight As, that should count for something over the kid who squeaked by with As and Bs but had daddy pay for the SAT prep.

A couple admissions officer acquaintances of mine have noted that it's very, very hard to find qualified applicants from non-traditional backgrounds, to the extent they're despairing because a) they don't want to let anyone in who is unqualified and B) it's really hard to get into an elite school when the public school system is so broken.

So all this handwringing about diversity bewilders me. It's worth about 80 points on the SAT at most. And in practice, quite a lot of the time there's no meaningful difference in score, and it comes down to 'Well, we can let in another prep school brat with a 1500 score or we can let in this girl from south central L.A. with a 1490.'

Some very important points in there.

I can attest to the fact that colleges do recruit from poor white neighborhoods. I taught at a high school that was predominantly kids from South Boston, a poor white neighborhood here. Definitely active recruiting from top colleges looking for kids that were able to excel.

[Caladan 19]

Oh, and a lot of this 'evil diversity' is looking at after-school activities differently, because that was acting as an unfair class sorter. 'Emma is a talented violinist and ballet dancer' vs. 'Sukjae worked at the local grocery store' vs. 'Hank grew up on a farm' sorts of things. Emma's never had to pay for her Uggs, and Sukjae isn't having violin lessons or flying to Europe for math competitions because his parents need him to help run their store and Hank is too busy with the farmers' market and he's nowhere near a city that has such opportunities. Is he less qualified because he doesn't have the mark of the aristocracy?

Seems to me his job should count as much as her pointe shoes, and that's been one of the ways admissions people try to recruit from poorer and rural areas.

[Fandango 1,439]

I want Colleges and Universities to treat everyone the exact same regardless of race.

How do you treat a wheelbound person and someone who can walk through the front door exactly the same as if that equals fairness? Is putting a ramp for the wheelchair person showing favoritism?

In the same context, what's wrong with a college to consider race among other things when admitting students for the sake of diversity? You don't think they consider other factors?

Not only that, many of the Ivy League colleges are notorious for nepotism - how do you suppose Dubbya got into Yale?

I'd still really like to know why you compared minorities to the physically handicapped.

At a guess - because certain minority groups have more socio-economic factors working against them than everyone else.

doesn't mean jack in this day and age....many a people have put themselves thru college...it's not the unobtainable dream it was back in the day.

Comparing them to the handicapped is insulting, and tbh, quite racist in itself imo

It's not the best comparison, true - but I think the point being made is that certain minorities have more factors working against them than equivalent whites.

Certainly a person can achieve success regardless of their social/economic background, but I would argue it is more the exception than the rule. There's a reason why certain ethnic groups, specifically blacks and hispanics form the vast majority of the nations poor, and its equally racist to suggest that it is because they are "culturally lazy".

Who's worried about the poor whites who don't have 'the oppty' to go to college?

oh that's right, no one

How many whites are live at or below the poverty line?

How many blacks and hispanics live at or below the poverty line?

Who cares how much % of each...if the goal is helping ppl...shouldn't that be for EVERYONE- regardless of race?

Oh wait, what am I thinking?

You are thinking that diversity programs are solely focussed on ethnicity. For a 3rd time... they are not.

for the record...i never have uttered the word 'diversity' in this thread. And secondly, I was replying to your comment discecting poor whites/poor blacks and hispanics by percentage.

Do try to keep up

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

for the record...i never have uttered the word 'diversity' in this thread. And secondly, I was replying to your comment discecting poor whites/poor blacks and hispanics by percentage.

Do try to keep up

It doesn't matter whether you said it or not - the topic had actually moved on from the original topic to the relative merits of "diversity" programs.

Ethnicity is a factor in diversity programs but far from the most important one - however it is the one that many people seem to predominantly associate when it comes to discussions of "diversity". Caladan made some interesting points on the subject, but I guess you overlooked those on your way to suggesting that noone cares about whites living below the poverty line. Something which hasn't been claimed here, BTW.

It is however a statistical fact that the large majority of this nations poor are either of black or hispanic ethnicity. There is a similar correlation with the population of the countries prison populations - but I guess noone sees the correlation between poverty and crime.

[Ban Hammer 13,336]

for the record...i never have uttered the word 'diversity' in this thread. And secondly, I was replying to your comment discecting poor whites/poor blacks and hispanics by percentage.

Do try to keep up

It doesn't matter whether you said it or not - the topic had actually moved on from the original topic to the relative merits of "diversity" programs.

Ethnicity is a factor in diversity programs but far from the most important one - however it is the one that many people seem to predominantly associate when it comes to discussions of "diversity". Caladan made some interesting points on the subject, but I guess you overlooked those on your way to suggesting that noone cares about whites living below the poverty line. Something which hasn't been claimed here, BTW.

It is however a statistical fact that the large majority of this nations poor are either of black or hispanic ethnicity. There is a similar correlation with the population of the countries prison populations - but I guess noone sees the correlation between poverty and crime.

so you are saying poor people are criminals?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

for the record...i never have uttered the word 'diversity' in this thread. And secondly, I was replying to your comment discecting poor whites/poor blacks and hispanics by percentage.

Do try to keep up

It doesn't matter whether you said it or not - the topic had actually moved on from the original topic to the relative merits of "diversity" programs.

Ethnicity is a factor in diversity programs but far from the most important one - however it is the one that many people seem to predominantly associate when it comes to discussions of "diversity". Caladan made some interesting points on the subject, but I guess you overlooked those on your way to suggesting that noone cares about whites living below the poverty line. Something which hasn't been claimed here, BTW.

It is however a statistical fact that the large majority of this nations poor are either of black or hispanic ethnicity. There is a similar correlation with the population of the countries prison populations - but I guess noone sees the correlation between poverty and crime.

so you are saying poor people are criminals?

No... but there is an obvious relationship between poverty and crime.

Which has more crime - Beverly Hills or Compton?

What about Westfield NJ vs. Irvington?

[Caladan 19]

Good lord, we like to read into things here.

"There's a connection between poverty and crime."

"OMGLOLWTF YOU SAID POOR PEOPLE ARE CRIMINALS."

"What's fair? No wheelchair access, for example, isn't fair to the disabled."

"OMGLOLWTF WHY DO YOU THINK RACE IS A DISABILITY BECAUSE I CANT HANDLE THE ANALOGIES. TOO MUCH BRAIN THINKING REQUIRED."

"Statistically, black and Hispanic kids are more likely to grow up in poor households."

"OMGLOLWTF WHY DONT YOU CARE ABOUT POOR WHITE KIDS."

It's like conversational implicature just goes out the window here. What's next?

"Hello."

"OMGLOLWTF DOES THAT GREETING MEAN I AM FROM MARS?"

[Jenn! 918]

[Ban Hammer 13,336]

for the record...i never have uttered the word 'diversity' in this thread. And secondly, I was replying to your comment discecting poor whites/poor blacks and hispanics by percentage.

Do try to keep up

It doesn't matter whether you said it or not - the topic had actually moved on from the original topic to the relative merits of "diversity" programs.

Ethnicity is a factor in diversity programs but far from the most important one - however it is the one that many people seem to predominantly associate when it comes to discussions of "diversity". Caladan made some interesting points on the subject, but I guess you overlooked those on your way to suggesting that noone cares about whites living below the poverty line. Something which hasn't been claimed here, BTW.

It is however a statistical fact that the large majority of this nations poor are either of black or hispanic ethnicity. There is a similar correlation with the population of the countries prison populations - but I guess noone sees the correlation between poverty and crime.

so you are saying poor people are criminals?

No... but there is an obvious relationship between poverty and crime.

Which has more crime - Beverly Hills or Compton?

What about Westfield NJ vs. Irvington?

no, poor people are not criminals. yet there is an obvious relationship between poverty and crime

still trying to be pc, erekose?

[Alex+R 0]

Good lord, we like to read into things here.

"There's a connection between poverty and crime."

"OMGLOLWTF YOU SAID POOR PEOPLE ARE CRIMINALS."

"What's fair? No wheelchair access, for example, isn't fair to the disabled."

"OMGLOLWTF WHY DO YOU THINK RACE IS A DISABILITY BECAUSE I CANT HANDLE THE ANALOGIES. TOO MUCH BRAIN THINKING REQUIRED."

"Statistically, black and Hispanic kids are more likely to grow up in poor households."

"OMGLOLWTF WHY DONT YOU CARE ABOUT POOR WHITE KIDS."

It's like conversational implicature just goes out the window here. What's next?

"Hello."

"OMGLOLWTF DOES THAT GREETING MEAN I AM FROM MARS?"

Hee hee, I enjoyed this post quite a bit.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Good lord, we like to read into things here.

"There's a connection between poverty and crime."

"OMGLOLWTF YOU SAID POOR PEOPLE ARE CRIMINALS."

"What's fair? No wheelchair access, for example, isn't fair to the disabled."

"OMGLOLWTF WHY DO YOU THINK RACE IS A DISABILITY BECAUSE I CANT HANDLE THE ANALOGIES. TOO MUCH BRAIN THINKING REQUIRED."

"Statistically, black and Hispanic kids are more likely to grow up in poor households."

"OMGLOLWTF WHY DONT YOU CARE ABOUT POOR WHITE KIDS."

It's like conversational implicature just goes out the window here. What's next?

"Hello."

"OMGLOLWTF DOES THAT GREETING MEAN I AM FROM MARS?"

Yep, that's about right.

[ace13 0]

I think people should call themselves whatever they want. I am white. Not European American Or I call myself American. Period.

If you are a black man from britain call yourself what ever you want. African British. Black. British American. Whatever.