Older American woman Younger Algerian man

[American Woman 75 21]

You do the best you can. If you get hurt, you do your best to pick yourself up and start over again.

Beauty for Ashes, I empathize greatly with what you've gone through, and what you've suffered from loving and trusting the wrong man. But the part that really struck me was when you said, "To this day I do not know why I sat so paralyzed, unable to move or get out."

This phenomenon happens to far too many women - the women who love their men so much, they make their men the center of their world, and the purpose of their life; so much so, so strongly, so completely...they lose themselves in the process. They catch their identity solely in the reflection of their man's eye - and without that man there to give them purpose, to make them feel alive, to need something from them, to make them use all their available mental energy to think of ways to make them happy, to please them, to take care of them...the codependent woman does not know where else to direct her attention - because by that point, everything else in life, compared to the wild excitement of trying to please a man who is never satisfied, trying to reason with him when there is no reasoning, trying to use her imagination to fix things that can't be fixed...the rest of the world begins to take on a dim dull light, and it becomes a shadowy place that can feel like a lonesome and trepid journey to venture back into. I don't know if that's what you felt or not, but I have seen it with others.

It's very clear that you have a good heart and that you care deeply about other people - I see you on here quite often, wanting to spare other women the same type of horror and heartache, and financial loss that you so painfully endured. That is a commendable effort. But I also think that sometimes your warnings are more scary than helpful. I say that only because we are still not yet quite clear on exactly what you saw before you brought this criminal into your home. Your warnings are strong, but generalized and unfocused.

Imagine, if every moment of your experience with him was on film. You have a large audience sitting in front of the screen, wanting to learn from your mistakes. You can stop this film any time you want, and point out this exact moment, that exact word, and say to all of us, 'Righttttttttt HERE! See this? See when I was talking to him on Skype, and I was sad about something, but he didn't sympathize at all, and changed the subject to something that he liked? THAT was a sign I should have paid attention to.'

When I think about the scammers, I begin to conjure up a certain personality type. I begin to imagine what their conversations might be about - and what they focus on. I don't have to imagine too hard, since I've had dozens of these types of men attempt conversations with me on pen pal sites - many of whom I've taken the time to, shall we say...'study'.

Just this week alone, I spoke with three very obvious scammers, while I was online in an international pen pal site, where I go to learn about other cultures, and get to know other Algerians. Here, even at first glance, it should be OBVIOUS that all three of these men are on standby for catching just the right kind of foreign woman who is looking for praise and complements, so they can get as much as they can out of her. I call them...Creepy Scammers.

EGYPT:

i was in belgium for two years and half but no one helped me there, so i backed to Egypt since seven monthes, and yes i still looking for work, but i want to travel again, im looking for good beautiful like u for marriage and true love, and believe me i dont want marry just for visa and green card but for true love and real life, do u believe me ? r u married or have love?

SPAIN (does not even sound like a Spanish speaking person!):

I’ve read you andadmdired your lovely beauty.... and I like you in both senses

I’ll feel pleased to know more widely over you and your circumstances that helps me to find , know, share and enjoy our affinities in its fullness,

Are your feelings as wonderful as your pretty image?

Please be so kind to answer me... with comments.

PaT… x

PS, I don't send my pics untill we be sure of our friendship stability

MOROCCO:

hi how are u my sweet I am omar from morocco looking for a girl friend same like u if u agree with me

So, if these messages do not seem like the beginnings of crystal clear scams to someone, THEY are the women who will be suckered in, and then come here to scare the bejesus out of all the rest of us. Not saying you, Beauty, I'm talking about anyone.

I've received many more than these over the last couple of years, but the way of talking is always the same, it always fits the same pattern. At times, I have played along, just to see what else they might say. As I've said before, I truly do my homework! So, ladies, here is a small list of my personal warnings on what to watch out for, based on real conversations with what I believed to be real scammers:

1. If he has a profile, it will indicate that he is looking for a relationship - and within the first day, or few days, he states that he is looking for love and marriage, and asks if you are interested in the same. His compliments are thick and unctuous. His profile specifies that he is looking for foreign women. If he's looking for foreign women, he's looking for a way out. Also, if it's a profile with photos where you can leave comments, browse through who's leaving messages there. If you see that he's a younger man, and there are other older women there that leave messages such as, 'Thanks for writing, how are you?' or 'Thanks for the compliment!' - you will see that he's been targeting older foreign women.

2. His questions show only the most basic interest in your life, 'what do you do for work' - 'do you have a big family' - 'do you live alone' - 'were you married' - and so on...but are never followed up by anything meaningful. Such as, do you like your job, do you get along with your family, do you feel lonely or scared with no one else in the house, was it very painful for you when you had your divorce...etc. At the same time, someone who does not have a real interest in developing a genuine relationship with you will become quickly irritated, bored, or disinterested when you ask HIM these deeper types of questions, and will give the shortest answers possible, then change the subject to something more 'fun' - like talking about sex or flirting.

3. You mention to him that you're not feeling well, you're sick, or something is on your mind making you feel sad or bothered. He may say he's sorry to hear it, tell you that all you need in your life is him to take care of you, then change the subject, showing no real emotion or interest in your feelings, and then forgets about it entirely by the next day. No follow up! This is very important, because if there's no follow up, that means that he wasn't thinking much about it, or much about you - he's forgotten all about your troubles, because they are of no real concern to him.

4. If you don't direct the conversation, and leave the topics up to him, it will consist almost entirely of sex, wanting to get married and take care of you, or all the fun things he wants to do or have. The entire focus will be about things that are good for him - and not much interest in YOU. There will be self-centeredness, peppered with the old standbys of 'you're beautiful' and 'I will take care of you, don't worry'.

5. Of course, the most obvious one, if he either comes right out and directly asks for money...or indirectly 'wishes' that 'someone' could 'help' him, because he has just suffered some big tragedy, or he has no money for food, or something of that nature.

Did any of these things happen with your ex, early on in the relationship? THAT is what is helpful to know. And if not THESE things, then what things, in particular, can you now, in hindsight, say were clear signs?

This is not to judge you, and point fingers to say, 'Ah! She saw all of that and she STILL went forward! It's her own fault!' No, Beauty for Ashes...it's just to construct a clear guide for the rest of us on what to watch out for. We all know that what we experience in the moment, and what we experience in hindsight, can be worlds apart.

Take Care,

Zoletta

[Cathi 5,755]

Beauty for Ashes, I empathize greatly with what you've gone through, and what you've suffered from loving and trusting the wrong man. But the part that really struck me was when you said, "To this day I do not know why I sat so paralyzed, unable to move or get out."

This phenomenon happens to far too many women - the women who love their men so much, they make their men the center of their world, and the purpose of their life; so much so, so strongly, so completely...they lose themselves in the process. They catch their identity solely in the reflection of their man's eye - and without that man there to give them purpose, to make them feel alive, to need something from them, to make them use all their available mental energy to think of ways to make them happy, to please them, to take care of them...the codependent woman does not know where else to direct her attention - because by that point, everything else in life, compared to the wild excitement of trying to please a man who is never satisfied, trying to reason with him when there is no reasoning, trying to use her imagination to fix things that can't be fixed...the rest of the world begins to take on a dim dull light, and it becomes a shadowy place that can feel like a lonesome and trepid journey to venture back into. I don't know if that's what you felt or not, but I have seen it with others.

It's very clear that you have a good heart and that you care deeply about other people - I see you on here quite often, wanting to spare other women the same type of horror and heartache, and financial loss that you so painfully endured. That is a commendable effort. But I also think that sometimes your warnings are more scary than helpful. I say that only because we are still not yet quite clear on exactly what you saw before you brought this criminal into your home. Your warnings are strong, but generalized and unfocused.

Imagine, if every moment of your experience with him was on film. You have a large audience sitting in front of the screen, wanting to learn from your mistakes. You can stop this film any time you want, and point out this exact moment, that exact word, and say to all of us, 'Righttttttttt HERE! See this? See when I was talking to him on Skype, and I was sad about something, but he didn't sympathize at all, and changed the subject to something that he liked? THAT was a sign I should have paid attention to.'

When I think about the scammers, I begin to conjure up a certain personality type. I begin to imagine what their conversations might be about - and what they focus on. I don't have to imagine too hard, since I've had dozens of these types of men attempt conversations with me on pen pal sites - many of whom I've taken the time to, shall we say...'study'.

Just this week alone, I spoke with three very obvious scammers, while I was online in an international pen pal site, where I go to learn about other cultures, and get to know other Algerians. Here, even at first glance, it should be OBVIOUS that all three of these men are on standby for catching just the right kind of foreign woman who is looking for praise and complements, so they can get as much as they can out of her. I call them...Creepy Scammers.

EGYPT:

i was in belgium for two years and half but no one helped me there, so i backed to Egypt since seven monthes, and yes i still looking for work, but i want to travel again, im looking for good beautiful like u for marriage and true love, and believe me i dont want marry just for visa and green card but for true love and real life, do u believe me ? r u married or have love?

SPAIN (does not even sound like a Spanish speaking person!):

Ive read you andadmdired your lovely beauty.... and I like you in both senses

Ill feel pleased to know more widely over you and your circumstances that helps me to find , know, share and enjoy our affinities in its fullness,

Are your feelings as wonderful as your pretty image?

Please be so kind to answer me... with comments.

PaT x

PS, I don't send my pics untill we be sure of our friendship stability

MOROCCO:

hi how are u my sweet I am omar from morocco looking for a girl friend same like u if u agree with me

So, if these messages do not seem like the beginnings of crystal clear scams to someone, THEY are the women who will be suckered in, and then come here to scare the bejesus out of all the rest of us. Not saying you, Beauty, I'm talking about anyone.

I've received many more than these over the last couple of years, but the way of talking is always the same, it always fits the same pattern. At times, I have played along, just to see what else they might say. As I've said before, I truly do my homework! So, ladies, here is a small list of my personal warnings on what to watch out for, based on real conversations with what I believed to be real scammers:

1. If he has a profile, it will indicate that he is looking for a relationship - and within the first day, or few days, he states that he is looking for love and marriage, and asks if you are interested in the same. His compliments are thick and unctuous. His profile specifies that he is looking for foreign women. If he's looking for foreign women, he's looking for a way out. Also, if it's a profile with photos where you can leave comments, browse through who's leaving messages there. If you see that he's a younger man, and there are other older women there that leave messages such as, 'Thanks for writing, how are you?' or 'Thanks for the compliment!' - you will see that he's been targeting older foreign women.

2. His questions show only the most basic interest in your life, 'what do you do for work' - 'do you have a big family' - 'do you live alone' - 'were you married' - and so on...but are never followed up by anything meaningful. Such as, do you like your job, do you get along with your family, do you feel lonely or scared with no one else in the house, was it very painful for you when you had your divorce...etc. At the same time, someone who does not have a real interest in developing a genuine relationship with you will become quickly irritated, bored, or disinterested when you ask HIM these deeper types of questions, and will give the shortest answers possible, then change the subject to something more 'fun' - like talking about sex or flirting.

3. You mention to him that you're not feeling well, you're sick, or something is on your mind making you feel sad or bothered. He may say he's sorry to hear it, tell you that all you need in your life is him to take care of you, then change the subject, showing no real emotion or interest in your feelings, and then forgets about it entirely by the next day. No follow up! This is very important, because if there's no follow up, that means that he wasn't thinking much about it, or much about you - he's forgotten all about your troubles, because they are of no real concern to him.

4. If you don't direct the conversation, and leave the topics up to him, it will consist almost entirely of sex, wanting to get married and take care of you, or all the fun things he wants to do or have. The entire focus will be about things that are good for him - and not much interest in YOU. There will be self-centeredness, peppered with the old standbys of 'you're beautiful' and 'I will take care of you, don't worry'.

5. Of course, the most obvious one, if he either comes right out and directly asks for money...or indirectly 'wishes' that 'someone' could 'help' him, because he has just suffered some big tragedy, or he has no money for food, or something of that nature.

Did any of these things happen with your ex, early on in the relationship? THAT is what is helpful to know. And if not THESE things, then what things, in particular, can you now, in hindsight, say were clear signs?

This is not to judge you, and point fingers to say, 'Ah! She saw all of that and she STILL went forward! It's her own fault!' No, Beauty for Ashes...it's just to construct a clear guide for the rest of us on what to watch out for. We all know that what we experience in the moment, and what we experience in hindsight, can be worlds apart.

Take Care,

Zoletta

Very good advice and any women seeing any of those red flags in a conversation needs to run for the hills and never look back. If a man ever starts a conversation with talk of marriage or wanting an American girlfriend, big huge red flag. I really agree with the part where you say that if he asks only general questions about your life and quickly changes the subject back to him really shows he doesn't care about getting to know you. My husband never did any of that. We started as friends and he took the time to get to know me before taking things further, it was a year before we even talked about the possibility of meeting. Take your time ladies, do your homework. So many scammers out there. Protect your heart, your children(if you have them), your finances, just be careful. With a big age difference I did a lot of research about him, his family, his friends and his culture. First and foremost I have children to protect, and there was no way in Hell that I would ever put their well being at stake. I made sure my husband was exactly who he said he was by spending a lot of face time with him ,his family and friends in his country before I even considered marrying him and introducing him into my kids lives. So far we are still going strong. He has been here a year and our second wedding anniversary is Saturday.

[Cathi 5,755]

You have a beautiful love story, Mimolicious. Your writings are always so inspirational. I hope all goes well for your father on Friday, I wish him and your family the best.

Thanks sweetheart.

[sandinista! 1,816]

MENA VJ archives. Read 'em. You don't need a time traveling Delorean, just learn how to use advanced search, or go back a few hundred pages in MENA (there's a little tab above where it shows what page you're currently viewing that lets you plug in any random page number you want). It's kind of interesting to travel back and see what people's mindsets were, and how they are now, and how or why that changed. And how and why some things are exactly the same, and that's ok. MENA VJ paleontology can be informative in all kinds of ways.

Edited October 29, 2013 by sandinista!

[Cathi 5,755]

MENA VJ archives. Read 'em. You don't need a time traveling Delorean, just learn how to use advanced search, or go back a few hundred pages in MENA (there's a little tab above where it shows what page you're currently viewing that lets you plug in any random page number you want). It's kind of interesting to travel back and see what people's mindsets were, and how they are now, and how or why that changed. And how and why some things are exactly the same, and that's ok. MENA VJ paleontology can be informative in all kinds of ways.

Amen.

I find the old threads informative and interesting. Lots of great info right at your fingertips.

[Cathi 5,755]

I have never met a woman affected by an I 864. I have met women much like myself who have faced losing houses. I actually know someone who put their spouse on her house to increase the likelihood of approval by immigration.. He left her and she STILL cannot get him off her house. I also know women who have lost their lifes savings including myself trying to bring someone over here and when they got here, were just a trainwreck since the luggage belt. I still have not met anyone that has used the I864 and gotten the wife into trouble. This can happen ALOT with women becase they have kids and then apply for welfare, cash assistance and government aid. Most of these men once they are out of the house of the enabling wife, and YES I SAID ENABLING, do HAVE to get jobs and usually do not get any kind of financial aid. They cannot get student loans and default on them because they are not US CITIZENS..Although personally, I think if my ex could have, he would have and I know he would not have paid the bill. He was sued by a credit card company after we split up because he did not pay that bill and I am sure if he could have figured out a way to run away from that, he would have.

When I divorced my spouse.. and I said I DIVORCED HIM, he did not file and leave me, he was at that point TRYING TO COME BACK AGAIN. The only reason I looked like a good option is BECAUSE I WAS KIND TO HIM. I cannot come on here and tell you I was ballsy and I told him this and that because I will be honest. He was a jackass and I kept putting up with it more and more and more and more. He left I let him back , again and again and again and again. In fact the real reason I went all the way through with a divorce was because I finally had a real heart to heart with an attorney who broke it down for me. Six years of marriage and you have a house. Let me explain to you honey just how much he is ENTITLED to. And He was. Because I had equity. He was LEGALLY MARRIED TO ME and he would technically be displaced even though he was in and out in and out but LEGALLY he had his address still with me.

Now whos fault was that? MIne. I married him and I think I got so carried away with the visa being approved and the child we had and then lost, I didnt seem to care that every single red flag was all over the place.

Am I going to stay with this guy I am dating? I have dated two times since I got divorced. One time was about 5 months after the last time I had sex with my husband and about a month after we officially got divorced. It was a guy who had kids with a moroccan woman and he was used for a greencard by his moroccan wife who was haraga or ILLEGAL here and she was much younger than him and like 19 and he was 35 and as soon as she got her permanent greencard, she took off on him. He was a HOT MESS from that. I dated him for about a month and we ate out alot and hung out but he was a LUNATIC from being used and still really is. We were never serious. We just talked alot and drank coffee and were more friends than anything. But it gave me alot of perspective of the fact that this nonsense can happen to them too. The guy I am dating I met in the spring at a HOME DEPOT.. not a dating site or anything LOL and he truly has been more of a FRIEND than a boyfriend as well. Sure we care about each other. Am I in the same kind of dumb founded blinding love I was with my ex? Not really. And to tell you the truth about him, I think his american ex dumped him. He has ALOT of weird quirky stuff about him, stuff I understand having been friends with alot of north africans but she was a high school drop out and and not very educated and did not speak other languages and I think she probably got fed up with things...You never know the true story but unlike me, she was not in a stable place and moved from trailer park to trailer park dragging him along with her. Hes a very simple country person and I can imagine the shock of coming all the way over here and moving into a jerry springer situation and truthfully, truth be told, its not always paradise for the petitioned person.

I honestly do not know if I will EVER get married again. My father passed away in July and I am dealing with a massive inheritance coming down the pike and my mom is not really comfortable with me being married , period. I do not blame her because if I would STILL be married to the jack #### I was married to and I had money on the way, he would be trying to get his hands on it. I cannot afford to put my family money in jeapordy and frankly, I do not think Ill get married again or at least until my mom passes away. She was so traumatised by the loss of my child and by the behavior or both my husband and his family,she would not accept me getting married without an iron clad pre nup and I cannot see the benefit of getting married anymore anyway. Unless the man had more assets than my mom and than I will eventually, what would be the point? I can still have kids but do I want to have anymore? After that trainwreck and not being able to get out? I am NOT thinking about marrying ANYONE.

And Zoletta, trust me. It sounds like its so easy to let go after you bring them here. The age difference, 20 years DOES matter and its usually going to be TOO GREAT to overcome. If you can emotionally survive being sexually in love with someone and they ditch you to be with either someone from their country or someone a lot younger, how will you deal with it? I didnt have as big as a gap ( 12 years) and I was emotionally LEVELLED when both my spouse pulled his bs and frankly HIS FAMILY was manuevering to get benefit from me. The more I paid attention , the more I knew that the whole FAMILY was in on it and several family members had done the marrying for papers thing INCLDUING HIS OWN FATHER in europe in the 1970s. This whole pollyanna view of other cultures will hurt you later Zoletta. And talking to people on sites? No one is going to really get down and dirty with you and tell you the real deal with alot of these marriages.. There is a word in Algerian called SHEKAMA. Ask your boyfriend what that is. Its a person who helps someone from another culture defend themselves against their spouse. Anytime any algerian tried to help me, they were a shekama. There are some algerians who will NOT defend a foreign spouse out of loyalty to their own people. You are NOT going to hear most of the hardest things from them. You will however hear it from the American spouses out of trainwreck relationships. I think the fact I am dating someone from there AFTER WHAT HAPPENED speaks VOLUMES about my respect for them. But even he himself points out his friends who have done this stuff. Is it fair? No. Does it happen? Yes. Does that mean it will happen to you? Dont know. But do not minimalise things because its very real. If you do not have financial assets and its only your heart that is at risk. is your heart worth that little to you Zoletta? Are you worth that little to yourself to minimalise the risk of losing whats left of your health over losing someone. If so , you are more woman than me. It devastated me. I STILL have nightmares about him mixed with a sympathy and pain and anger and a whole soup of stuff. He actually tried to come back in MARCH telling me OH RABBAK I really always loved you. Ill take you back to the masjid and marry you bla bla bla. . This is after YEARS of sadisitic nonsense. I had just started dating this guy who like I told you most likely will NEVER be my husband and even with knowing someone else, I was STILL vulnerable and very in love with my husband. This is a game some of us do not play well and I certainly didnt. To this day,, I STILL HURT over what he did to me. I loved him. I invested time into getting him here. I spent all my savings paying for tickets and phone calls and trips back in forth to end up with NOTHING. These relatioships are NOT a game and do have real life lasting consequences.

I have one critical difference between me and some of the other FAILED marriages I have seen. I did NOT stop being friends with people from that culture and adjoining cultures. I am still DATING someone from there and most likely will continue because I am compatible and speak the language.

Would I marry someone from over there and go through years of immigration.? No. I cannot personally handle another case, another heartbreak . I could not physically go through even 20 percent of what my ex put me through and what I had to go here to get him here. I think part of me will always love and miss him no matter what he did. Not every day was bad. Not every memory was bad. But Zoletta please do not MINIMISE the long lasting affects that some of these relationships have on the petitioners. Like the girl said before, You can be left with the financial impact of these relationships long after the actual break up.. Maybe not from the I 864 but from the actual process and such.

So glad to see you are finally able to move on from your past. I hope things work out in your new relationship, you deserve your happy ending...

[American Woman 75 21]

Very good advice and any women seeing any of those red flags in a conversation needs to run for the hills and never look back. If a man ever starts a conversation with talk of marriage or wanting an American girlfriend, big huge red flag. I really agree with the part where you say that if he asks only general questions about your life and quickly changes the subject back to him really shows he doesn't care about getting to know you. My husband never did any of that. We started as friends and he took the time to get to know me before taking things further, it was a year before we even talked about the possibility of meeting. Take your time ladies, do your homework. So many scammers out there. Protect your heart, your children(if you have them), your finances, just be careful. With a big age difference I did a lot of research about him, his family, his friends and his culture. First and foremost I have children to protect, and there was no way in Hell that I would ever put their well being at stake. I made sure my husband was exactly who he said he was by spending a lot of face time with him ,his family and friends in his country before I even considered marrying him and introducing him into my kids lives. So far we are still going strong. He has been here a year and our second wedding anniversary is Saturday.

Yes, you are so right. We owe it to ourselves to 'check on them.' Simple as that. Trust, in a online relationship with a man we've never met...is a luxury we can't afford to take. Oh sure, it's romantic and all, but any woman who gets so caught up in the romance that she turns her back on all the good advice out there about what to look for, what to be careful of, what to run from...and neglects to do her homework, may be opening the door for a cesspool of trouble to come leaking into her life.

Never, ever, ever feel that you are treating him like a criminal, that you just can't bring yourself to question him, double-check the facts, and investigate who is he by any means necessary. Even if you have to use a fake profile to do it. These are things you MUST do, and doing them DOES NOT mean that you are disrespecting him, or stabbing him in the back, or doing anything bad to him at all. If he's 'real' - he'll understand this. If he's fake, he'll be pissed, and who cares? Good riddance!

I've even saved all my conversations with my Algerian, put on my reading glasses, sat on the couch with a red pen, a big cup of coffee, and analyzed a thousand pages of instant messaging. Did he ever change his answers, were there any inconsistencies, were there any facts in here that I could double-check on Google using their translator, exactly when and how did this friendship turn into something more, and so on.

To this day, I have yet to catch him in a lie. Everything he's said; about his work, his wages, his university, his name, I have verified. The answers he's given me months ago, the answers he gives me now, are all consistent.

If I tell him I don't feel well, it's the first thing he will ask me about the next day. He remembers. He listens, he pays attention, he worries, and he cares. One of my favorite expressions from him is, 'Tell me what you have in your heart.'

At the point where our friendship began to take a turn into something more serious - the feelings were mutual, and gradual. There was no sudden and unexpected outburst of, 'Marry me!' - Oh, no no no. It was little things, like telling me that he's beginning to feel 'close' to me. That he's beginning to think of me while he's out walking, or while he's falling asleep. It was always beginning....slow and easy. And then, one day, as we were saying good night, he said, 'Take care...as I begin to love you' - and when I read that, it stopped my heart...because I was feeling the same.

Over the next few weeks, we began to discuss these mutual feelings, and what could become of them. What could we do with these feelings, 5,000 miles apart? He asked me if I could love someone like him. 'If' - not did I, but if I could...not him, but someone like him. It was very indirect, cautious, reserved.

I was a bit more direct, and asked him what he had on his mind. If asked him if he was talking about a 'real love' - which would lead to marriage, or just a cyber-love, where we enjoy a 'virtual romance' without commitment.

He said he didn't know. He said the feelings that he had for me were something new, and admitted that he couldn't even be sure that they were love. But, he said, whatever it is he's beginning to feel, it's making him lose sleep, it's distracting him from work, it's causing a change in him that other people can notice, and he's found himself losing time with his friends so he could come home early and talk to me. There was NO talk about 'you are my soul-mate' and there was NO marriage proposal.

But a door was opened to discuss the practicalities of what is possible, and what is not. That's when we began to have our discussions about the age difference, religion, babies, what his family might think, and all the difficulties that we would face, if we allowed our feelings to lead us into a real relationship. And many of these talks were not easy, and as I've said before, some of the things he said were things that I didn't want to hear, but he said them, anyway, and he stood by what he said. There was NO sugar-coated puffy-fluffy sweet-talk - but serious, heart-felt, and mature conversations.

Even now, at this point, there has been no direct 'I want to marry you.' But, there has been, 'Come here, let us meet first, let us talk face to face, and from there we can see.' And there has also been, 'I cannot give an answer on Skype of if I will want to come to America with you or not. We have not even meet yet, what I can say? We must meet first, and talk a lot.'

That was not particularly romantic - haha! But, I cannot tell you how glad I was to hear it! It showed me that he is so far removed from the typical Creepy Scammer pattern, they may as well be living in different worlds. It also shows me that he has sense, that he's grounded, and not easily swept up in fantasy.

Earlier, when I mentioned about paying attention to what they focus on, what they choose to talk about, if it's meaningful, or trivial...when I asked him what we will do there, and where we will go, the first place he mentioned was that he wanted to take me by the hand and walk with me down the street where he used to live.

We could have met in Tunisia, or Djerbel Island, and spent our days together doing 'fun' stuff, but he didn't want that. He said he wanted to show me his life. He wanted to show me all the places he's worked, where he goes to school, where he sat in the park when he talked to me on the phone for the first time. He wants me to meet his family, meet his friends, and most importantly of all, he wants to show me the spot where the old house his family used to live in collapsed during a tremor, and killed his brother, who he was very close to. He and his grandmother were also in the house during the collapse, and buried under the rubble for hours. This was ten years ago. And yes, it was something that I was able to verify in a French newspaper - not easily, but I did it.

So I see what's important to him. I see what his priorities are. I see what matters to him the most - and for him to choose to want to take my hand and bring me to the place of his family's worst tragedy, instead of having a ten day beach vacation...that really says something about his character.

What I see in him is someone who thinks deeply, who considers things carefully, who does not make rash decisions, who does not talk about love lightly, and who knows what's important in life. These are the qualities in him that shine through over and over again, and which have earned my respect.

Happy Anniversary to you, Mimolicious! I wish you both a long and happy marriage.

[Shoot Em Straight 385]

Beauty for Ashes, I empathize greatly with what you've gone through, and what you've suffered from loving and trusting the wrong man. But the part that really struck me was when you said, "To this day I do not know why I sat so paralyzed, unable to move or get out."

This phenomenon happens to far too many women - the women who love their men so much, they make their men the center of their world, and the purpose of their life; so much so, so strongly, so completely...they lose themselves in the process. They catch their identity solely in the reflection of their man's eye - and without that man there to give them purpose, to make them feel alive, to need something from them, to make them use all their available mental energy to think of ways to make them happy, to please them, to take care of them...the codependent woman does not know where else to direct her attention - because by that point, everything else in life, compared to the wild excitement of trying to please a man who is never satisfied, trying to reason with him when there is no reasoning, trying to use her imagination to fix things that can't be fixed...the rest of the world begins to take on a dim dull light, and it becomes a shadowy place that can feel like a lonesome and trepid journey to venture back into. I don't know if that's what you felt or not, but I have seen it with others.

It's very clear that you have a good heart and that you care deeply about other people - I see you on here quite often, wanting to spare other women the same type of horror and heartache, and financial loss that you so painfully endured. That is a commendable effort. But I also think that sometimes your warnings are more scary than helpful. I say that only because we are still not yet quite clear on exactly what you saw before you brought this criminal into your home. Your warnings are strong, but generalized and unfocused.

Imagine, if every moment of your experience with him was on film. You have a large audience sitting in front of the screen, wanting to learn from your mistakes. You can stop this film any time you want, and point out this exact moment, that exact word, and say to all of us, 'Righttttttttt HERE! See this? See when I was talking to him on Skype, and I was sad about something, but he didn't sympathize at all, and changed the subject to something that he liked? THAT was a sign I should have paid attention to.'

When I think about the scammers, I begin to conjure up a certain personality type. I begin to imagine what their conversations might be about - and what they focus on. I don't have to imagine too hard, since I've had dozens of these types of men attempt conversations with me on pen pal sites - many of whom I've taken the time to, shall we say...'study'.

Just this week alone, I spoke with three very obvious scammers, while I was online in an international pen pal site, where I go to learn about other cultures, and get to know other Algerians. Here, even at first glance, it should be OBVIOUS that all three of these men are on standby for catching just the right kind of foreign woman who is looking for praise and complements, so they can get as much as they can out of her. I call them...Creepy Scammers.

EGYPT:

i was in belgium for two years and half but no one helped me there, so i backed to Egypt since seven monthes, and yes i still looking for work, but i want to travel again, im looking for good beautiful like u for marriage and true love, and believe me i dont want marry just for visa and green card but for true love and real life, do u believe me ? r u married or have love?

SPAIN (does not even sound like a Spanish speaking person!):

I’ve read you andadmdired your lovely beauty.... and I like you in both senses

I’ll feel pleased to know more widely over you and your circumstances that helps me to find , know, share and enjoy our affinities in its fullness,

Are your feelings as wonderful as your pretty image?

Please be so kind to answer me... with comments.

PaT… x

PS, I don't send my pics untill we be sure of our friendship stability

MOROCCO:

hi how are u my sweet I am omar from morocco looking for a girl friend same like u if u agree with me

So, if these messages do not seem like the beginnings of crystal clear scams to someone, THEY are the women who will be suckered in, and then come here to scare the bejesus out of all the rest of us. Not saying you, Beauty, I'm talking about anyone.

I've received many more than these over the last couple of years, but the way of talking is always the same, it always fits the same pattern. At times, I have played along, just to see what else they might say. As I've said before, I truly do my homework! So, ladies, here is a small list of my personal warnings on what to watch out for, based on real conversations with what I believed to be real scammers:

1. If he has a profile, it will indicate that he is looking for a relationship - and within the first day, or few days, he states that he is looking for love and marriage, and asks if you are interested in the same. His compliments are thick and unctuous. His profile specifies that he is looking for foreign women. If he's looking for foreign women, he's looking for a way out. Also, if it's a profile with photos where you can leave comments, browse through who's leaving messages there. If you see that he's a younger man, and there are other older women there that leave messages such as, 'Thanks for writing, how are you?' or 'Thanks for the compliment!' - you will see that he's been targeting older foreign women.

2. His questions show only the most basic interest in your life, 'what do you do for work' - 'do you have a big family' - 'do you live alone' - 'were you married' - and so on...but are never followed up by anything meaningful. Such as, do you like your job, do you get along with your family, do you feel lonely or scared with no one else in the house, was it very painful for you when you had your divorce...etc. At the same time, someone who does not have a real interest in developing a genuine relationship with you will become quickly irritated, bored, or disinterested when you ask HIM these deeper types of questions, and will give the shortest answers possible, then change the subject to something more 'fun' - like talking about sex or flirting.

3. You mention to him that you're not feeling well, you're sick, or something is on your mind making you feel sad or bothered. He may say he's sorry to hear it, tell you that all you need in your life is him to take care of you, then change the subject, showing no real emotion or interest in your feelings, and then forgets about it entirely by the next day. No follow up! This is very important, because if there's no follow up, that means that he wasn't thinking much about it, or much about you - he's forgotten all about your troubles, because they are of no real concern to him.

4. If you don't direct the conversation, and leave the topics up to him, it will consist almost entirely of sex, wanting to get married and take care of you, or all the fun things he wants to do or have. The entire focus will be about things that are good for him - and not much interest in YOU. There will be self-centeredness, peppered with the old standbys of 'you're beautiful' and 'I will take care of you, don't worry'.

5. Of course, the most obvious one, if he either comes right out and directly asks for money...or indirectly 'wishes' that 'someone' could 'help' him, because he has just suffered some big tragedy, or he has no money for food, or something of that nature.

Did any of these things happen with your ex, early on in the relationship? THAT is what is helpful to know. And if not THESE things, then what things, in particular, can you now, in hindsight, say were clear signs?

This is not to judge you, and point fingers to say, 'Ah! She saw all of that and she STILL went forward! It's her own fault!' No, Beauty for Ashes...it's just to construct a clear guide for the rest of us on what to watch out for. We all know that what we experience in the moment, and what we experience in hindsight, can be worlds apart.

Take Care,

Zoletta

Zoletta...pretty name.

Reads like you have been doing this for many years, a professional. And now you have found one.

I have not read much of what hardships you had from the past posts as you mentioned to OP purple23(?) or your history on here BUT

have you EVEN petitioned yet? ... please correct me if I am wrong...you have met face to face? Right?

All this study/advice seems to be a little premature. Come on back in 5-7 years and let us know your findings.

BTW curious to know...on your online International site are there women one can pen pal with to accumilate knowledge on Algerian cultures? Maybe this would be a better way to not run into scammers searching for a visa. oops DOMA.

One thing that you cant gloss over is your healthy young MENA male is most likely giving up ever conceiving children with you. This is a big sacrifice for most MENA men/families....

I do wish you luck with your relationship and hope we hear amazing news from you down the line.

Everyone deserves to be happy.

KAT * Rock on with your new man interest. I hope he is all you need and want.

[American Woman 75 21]

Zoletta...pretty name.

Reads like you have been doing this for many years, a professional. And now you have found one.

I have not read much of what hardships you had from the past posts as you mentioned to OP purple23(?) or your history on here BUT

have you EVEN petitioned yet? ... please correct me if I am wrong...you have met face to face? Right?

All this study/advice seems to be a little premature. Come on back in 5-7 years and let us know your findings.

BTW curious to know...on your online International site are there women one can pen pal with to accumilate knowledge on Algerian cultures? Maybe this would be a better way to not run into scammers searching for a visa. oops DOMA.

One thing that you cant gloss over is your healthy young MENA male is most likely giving up ever conceiving children with you. This is a big sacrifice for most MENA men/families....

I do wish you luck with your relationship and hope we hear amazing news from you down the line.

Everyone deserves to be happy.

KAT * Rock on with your new man interest. I hope he is all you need and want.

Thanks, about my name. Not trying to sound like a 'professional' - just here like everyone else, to offer what I know, what I think, what I've experienced. I've never in my life been the victim of a scam - but I've been contacted by them repeatedly. I don't want to avoid them, I want to collect them and post them here for all to see!

I think I've mentioned it more than once that I haven't yet met my 'MENA' man - and I've made no secret of that. I don't think that my armchair investigation is premature AT ALL. I think everyone should be on guard right from the beginning. There is no direct bridge between a 'hello on the internet' and meeting your guy at the airport in his city. There are many small steps in between. It's during those small steps that women, if they're not careful, can lose their time, their heart, their money, and even their mind! If you don't begin investigating NOW...then when? At what point? After you've already spent thousands of dollars to travel to his part of the world? After you've fallen so deep in love, you can't see straight? No, no. The time is now - before it's too late.

Yes, the international pen pal sites have Algerian women that you can talk to. I also find them on YouTube comments. I've had ongoing conversations, on and off, with a good number of Algerians, both men and women, in their 20s, 30s and 40s. I's say at least two dozen, by now, perhaps more than that. They're an enjoyable people. I really love the Algerians. They have a warmth about them that is really something unique.

I don't think I've 'glossed over' having children at all. I've mentioned it on here more than once, and wrote a very detailed outline of our discussion. I told him that for a woman my age, the chances are significantly reduced, and of the chance to conceive, there is a still a high risk that the baby could have Down Syndrome. He's a grown man, not a boy. He's been made aware of the facts, he's contemplated them, we've discussed it many times, and he's accepted the risk. So, either his feelings and intentions are sincere, or he's accepting it as part of some big scam to use me. Since he's shown me that he's a deep thinker and not prone to rash decision making, and that he has his priorities in order, I have to lean more toward the belief that this, too, is something sincere, as it fits the pattern of his ways.

No, I have not petitioned yet. We are not even 100% certain of if we will marry or not. He has not asked me to marry him - we've only discussed the possibilities of it, and shared a bit of romantic talk about how it would be, but we both have agreed to reserve the final decision until after we meet. We are both completely aware that by the time we are face to face, things may feel differently than they do when we're 5,000 miles apart. It's completely wait and see.

So if I have anything to report in 5-7 years, I will surely let you know.

[American Woman 75 21]

Just came back from my ten day visit to Algeria - and met my Algerian sweetheart on our one year cyber-anniversary for the first time ever. It was the time of my life, better than I could have ever expected, and he was everything I thought he would be, and more.

His family was very loving and welcoming - and even threw me a surprise birthday party, with a great big yummy delicious chocolate cake, and lots of really neat presents, including a beautiful deep purple traditional Algerian gown.

I met his entire family, dozens of friends, he took me inside his university, I met his English teacher and the other students in the class, I went inside the court house where he used to work and met everybody there - he showed me his entire life, from top to bottom, and I met everyone he ever talked about. I saw where he grew up, where he went to school as a child, where he used to play, he brought me to the cemetery to see where his brother and grandmother were laid to rest, and we ate at nearly twenty different restaurants in all different towns, and with all different friends.

Constantine is a beautiful place, with spectacular scenery. The people there are warm and friendly and simple. I was most shocked to see the crescent moon lying on its back, like a canoe, instead of standing upright - like we see from this hemisphere. I was also surprised that the keyboard had a different arrangement of letters, and even the standard size paper was a little off.

The toilets - ughhhh - don't ask! And the driving - let me just say...FASTEN YOUR SEATBELTS!!! There were NO traffic lights anywhere to be found. It was a total free-for-all - with cars just pulling right into the middle of the intersection, facing all different ways, beeping and bumping and swerving and oh god!!! It was vehicular chaos in its full glory.

The mother and sisters fawned all over me, and pulled me inside the house with kisses and hugs and long velvet gowns. They never asked me about my age, but commented that I look surprisingly young. Two of the sisters spoke a little English, and so with simple words, facial expressions, and lots of hand gestures, we were able to communicate in many things.

I asked them how they all felt about Zino coming to America. They said that so long as he comes back at least once a year to visit them, and so long as he can come for their weddings or if someone gets very sick or some emergency, they will wish him the best, and feel good that he will be with me - because, they said, they can see that I love him and will take care of him.

Zino, himself, has mixed emotions. His heart is divided, because, he said, 'Sure, America will have nicer buildings and cars, better opportunity, and everything more beautiful, but it can never replace my friends and what I have here with my family."

And what I saw there was that he has a lot of people who love him, and many extremely close friends. It's not a bad life, it's not even a poor life. His family's apartment was huge, with nice leather couches, pretty curtains, a front-loading washing machine and two cars among them. He has very nice clothes and lots of food in the house. He will also graduate this year with his law degree. He has a good life over there, and I see him happy.

He asked me over and over to move THERE, instead. He asked for at least two years. He's in no hurry to come here at all. He loves his Algeria, and he loves his life there.

In the end, he presented me with a beautiful Algerian wedding ring - right in front of all his family. He said here or there, he wants me in his life, and can't let me go.

I'm home, now, back in Chicago, filling out all the paperwork for the K1-Visa - the ring on my hand, a smile on my face.

I plan on going back there in the fall, a month before he would have his interview, then staying with him until he gets his visa - so we can fly back together.

I felt like I lived a whole little lifetime in those ten days there with him. It was truly the happiest time of my life.

[Karmalicious 60]

I'm so happy it all worked out for you. I hope I end up the same. I am also older and have been watching out for an update. Good luck on your new journey.

[American Woman 75 21]

I'm so happy it all worked out for you. I hope I end up the same. I am also older and have been watching out for an update. Good luck on your new journey.

Thank you! What is the age difference for you guys? We have 17 years apart - but I swear I can barely feel it at all.

[sandinista! 1,816]

It's great to hear you had such an amazing visit and are off to a great start. Wishing you all the best.

[Karmalicious 60]

Thank you! What is the age difference for you guys? We have 17 years apart - but I swear I can barely feel it at all.

We are 16 years apart and I too don't feel it. And I got the same warnings that you did but I never went public with what I was going through mostly because I saw what happened to you. I think you are much stronger than I am.

[American Woman 75 21]

We are 16 years apart and I too don't feel it. And I got the same warnings that you did but I never went public with what I was going through mostly because I saw what happened to you. I think you are much stronger than I am.

Nah, I'm STILL crying all the time from the hurt feelings I get when my family and friends keep trying to 'protect' me by bashing the man I love. It can be unbearable.