Older American woman Younger Algerian man

[Sarah Elle-Même 660]

Hi Purpled23,

I am 44 from Chicago and my Algerian sweetheart is 27. I just want to tell you to hang in there, and please IGNOR the negative comments on here about age. Yes, yes...we all know it 'looks weird' on paper. So what? That's just because society is not used to it as much as they are when they see it the other way around, with the man being the older one. There are so many other reasons besides age than can make or break a relationship. Only YOU know what you have, and what you feel. Your love is not a statistic to be analyzed. It's unique to you and your Algerian, and it's no one's place to try to judge or analyze it.

I just wanted to give you a big HUG and all my emotional support. I will be going to Algeria this December or January to meet the man who I've been talking to every night for the last 9 months, and if things go as expected, we will file for our K-1 soon afterward. So I am right there alongside you, trying to figure out all the 'how-tos.'

And yes, believe me, I had a lot of people trying to convince me, too, that he was a scammer - simply due to his age, location, and for the mere fact that he said he loved me. These well-intentioned people can sound so convincing and so scary about their supposed 'research' and horror stories - I even started to have doubts here and there, myself - because of their influence, not from anything that he said or did. But I put that to rest a long time ago, and now have no doubts at all. And I'm sorry I ever had them in the first place, because he has proved himself again and again to be someone I can rely on, and someone who is honest enough to give me a straight answer, if even it's not what I wanted to hear. He has not only become my love, but also my best friend.

Stay strong - be positive - and keep close to your friends here, who can guide you along the way.

Take Care,

Zoletta

Well, I am one of the people who advised you previously and as I recall, never said your particular internet boyfriend was a scammer. All I was saying is there are LOTS of them out there, especially from MENA countries, and it takes an objective eye to spot them out. Do women in love see things objectively? Not always. Far from always, actually.

Here's an almost textbook example: My friend's mother was scammed by one such young North African. He was from Morocco, as I recall. My friend's mother was the perfect target. She is in her 50s, divorced, lonely, low self-esteem, had money left to her from her parents. My fiance actually was the one who alerted our friend that this was an unusual relationship in MENA culture and that possibly this smooth talker had less than the best intentions. Our friend became so convinced reading their conversations that this young man was grooming his mother for a green card that he hacked into the guy's email account and extracted long chains of emails, instant messages, and nude photos between him and 2 other older American women. This Moroccan was educated, handsome and charming - and looking for a way to better his circumstances at the expense of someone else. Thankfully my friend's mother had a dedicated son looking out for her best interests, not everyone is so lucky. So I simply advise that everyone who begins a relationship online, not just those with an age difference but everyone, does their own objective due diligence and spend as much time in real life with this person as possible. You'll be happy you did it later.

Don't think I'm criticizing online relationships or saying my circumstances are better. We met offline and have been together for years and I still get people here and there who hear my story and say for sure my fiance is after a green card even though we don't have the common "red flags" that are discussed on this forum. None of us will ever escape that supposition. It doesn't really bother me anymore because I see that more often than not those people don't say it out of malice, they say it out of concern. That's okay, I am happy they are concerned about me. And if anything they say resonates, which at times it has, I give it consideration. I have done my homework, so to speak, and my fiance and I have had time to grow and change and then upon reflection decide we want to be together and start a life together. Everyone can do that as long as they take things slow.

[Boiler 46,322]

IIs everybody on this thread familiar with the film Shirley Valentine?

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

Well, I am one of the people who advised you previously and as I recall, never said your particular internet boyfriend was a scammer. All I was saying is there are LOTS of them out there, especially from MENA countries, and it takes an objective eye to spot them out. Do women in love see things objectively? Not always. Far from always, actually.

Here's an almost textbook example: My friend's mother was scammed by one such young North African. He was from Morocco, as I recall. My friend's mother was the perfect target. She is in her 50s, divorced, lonely, low self-esteem, had money left to her from her parents. My fiance actually was the one who alerted our friend that this was an unusual relationship in MENA culture and that possibly this smooth talker had less than the best intentions. Our friend became so convinced reading their conversations that this young man was grooming his mother for a green card that he hacked into the guy's email account and extracted long chains of emails, instant messages, and nude photos between him and 2 other older American women. This Moroccan was educated, handsome and charming - and looking for a way to better his circumstances at the expense of someone else. Thankfully my friend's mother had a dedicated son looking out for her best interests, not everyone is so lucky. So I simply advise that everyone who begins a relationship online, not just those with an age difference but everyone, does their own objective due diligence and spend as much time in real life with this person as possible. You'll be happy you did it later.

Don't think I'm criticizing online relationships or saying my circumstances are better. We met offline and have been together for years and I still get people here and there who hear my story and say for sure my fiance is after a green card even though we don't have the common "red flags" that are discussed on this forum. None of us will ever escape that supposition. It doesn't really bother me anymore because I see that more often than not those people don't say it out of malice, they say it out of concern. That's okay, I am happy they are concerned about me. And if anything they say resonates, which at times it has, I give it consideration. I have done my homework, so to speak, and my fiance and I have had time to grow and change and then upon reflection decide we want to be together and start a life together. Everyone can do that as long as they take things slow.

What ended up happening to the mother? Did she break off the relationship with the Moroccan guy/ Or did she continue despite the email proof?

[Ihavequestions 419]

I think if he still wants to stay married to the older woman, then at least there was some feeling for her. Asking to marry a second wife to have kids means at least he cared about the first. Just dumping the first and then looking for a wife to have kids would be harder I think to deal with.. at least if the only reason he is leaving was to have kids, then at least you have some kind of solace in that?

What do you think about that ihavequestions?

Not my situation btw.. just asking

He has no duty to ask for permission from wife #1 to marry more because it's his right. The only right wife #1 has is to divorce if she can't accept it. And, culturally, it's better to tolerate the shame of sharing a husband (and the reason he did it will always be her fault - he has "needs" and she's not meeting them) and still have some degree of protection and maintenance - and to be able to live with her children - than to be divorced (which is her fault, too).

More than anything, though, the inability to produce children speaks to leaving a legacy and producing heirs and children, particularly male children, inherit a larger share than, say, an uncle would. There is no sharia law in the U.S. and, without a will saying otherwise, the wife inherits his estate - a big no-no if the wife is not Muslim. So, in a lot of ways, it's a matter of protecting his assets and doing that in a religiously acceptable way.

I dunno. I've seen foreign wives and their children, living in Egypt, while the husband manages a bi-coastal marriage and the end result is most often devastation. If that devastation isn't financial, it makes marrying their sons off more difficult because, if dad did it, that means it's okay in that family, and lots of families would never accept multiple wives as an arrangement for their daughter/sisters.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: the May/December women need to take a look at what their life will be like in 20 years and ask themselves if they can live with all of the possibilities. One of those possibilities is she's well into her 60s and he's turned the corner on 40. She certainly can't have children but he can - and he's got 20 years of accumulating some type of wealth and he needs children to leave it to. Or, she's not meeting his needs in the bedroom. Whatever the reason may be, she can't stop him from availing himself of his rights and can she live with that.

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

IIs everybody on this thread familiar with the film Shirley Valentine?

No but I just watched the trailer.. ITS AMAZING LOL

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_7MJQnk4M8

[Sarah Elle-Même 660]

What ended up happening to the mother? Did she break off the relationship with the Moroccan guy/ Or did she continue despite the email proof?

She stopped talking to that particular guy but it seems she still talks to foreigners online. She can't help herself. But she is rather ill physically and mentally now, her son is filing for a conservatorship over her and her money so she won't be able to petition for anyone's immigration or send any more money overseas. It's less about the online relationships issue and more about how she gets scammed by people in real life too, like her series of caregivers or "life coaches".

Edited October 21, 2013 by Sarah and Adnan

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

He has no duty to ask for permission from wife #1 to marry more because it's his right. The only right wife #1 has is to divorce if she can't accept it. And, culturally, it's better to tolerate the shame of sharing a husband (and the reason he did it will always be her fault - he has "needs" and she's not meeting them) and still have some degree of protection and maintenance - and to be able to live with her children - than to be divorced (which is her fault, too).

More than anything, though, the inability to produce children speaks to leaving a legacy and producing heirs and children, particularly male children, inherit a larger share than, say, an uncle would. There is no sharia law in the U.S. and, without a will saying otherwise, the wife inherits his estate - a big no-no if the wife is not Muslim. So, in a lot of ways, it's a matter of protecting his assets and doing that in a religiously acceptable way.

I dunno. I've seen foreign wives and their children, living in Egypt, while the husband manages a bi-coastal marriage and the end result is most often devastation. If that devastation isn't financial, it makes marrying their sons off more difficult because, if dad did it, that means it's okay in that family, and lots of families would never accept multiple wives as an arrangement for their daughter/sisters.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: the May/December women need to take a look at what their life will be like in 20 years and ask themselves if they can live with all of the possibilities. One of those possibilities is she's well into her 60s and he's turned the corner on 40. She certainly can't have children but he can - and he's got 20 years of accumulating some type of wealth and he needs children to leave it to. Or, she's not meeting his needs in the bedroom. Whatever the reason may be, she can't stop him from availing himself of his rights and can she live with that.

THis movie still makes my ears ring Ihavequestions LOL.. its not americans but its pretty typical and pretty funny

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UhoI-UD_A1w

[sandinista! 1,816]

For those of us wondering, I do hope you'll share what exactly makes you think a reformed scammer is a-ok boyfriend material Kat. Wouldn't touch that with someone else's 10 foot pole. "American woman mistreated me, blah blah blah held me hostage" is nearly always just the stateside version of "all the Arab womens are money grubbing, immature, intellectually inferior" nonsense...

[American Woman 75 21]

"Well, I am one of the people who advised you previously and as I recall, never said your particular internet boyfriend was a scammer. All I was saying is there are LOTS of them out there, especially from MENA countries, and it takes an objective eye to spot them out. Do women in love see things objectively? Not always. Far from always, actually."

Hi Sarah, of course I remember you. But I was not talking about you directly in this post. I was thinking more of the people in my real life here at home. And I did say 'well-intentioned' - which is what I believe. And yes, scams DO happen to women like us all the time. And we should all be careful - and we should all get pre-nups - and we should all double-check everything we can on everything they say...but this should apply to ALL relationships, no matter WHO they are or WHERE they are from. We can be scammed and lied to and cheated on and robbed blind by other Americans right here at home, as well.

It's a lot of anguish to start out 'assuming' that someone is a scammer, unless they give some good reason to make us think that. A reason more than just age or location. It could be a scam, sure it could. But it might be love, too. How can we know for certain WHAT we have, until they're already here, and a lot of time has passed?

We can't.

And if it IS love...then all this negativity can do a lot of damage. But again, we are not all so lucky as to be able to hack into someone else's email and see for ourselves. I wish!

I remember watching an episode of Dr. Phil about online scammers, and they showed some of the messages. For me, I could tell in only a few paragraphs that it was a scam. I couldn't figure out HOW that woman was so stupid and suckered in by it. It actually make me feel angry. I could only shake my head. I wish we had a section here to upload real life examples of how the real scammers write - so the women (or men) who are new to this can compare. Because there seems to be a pattern - and that pattern usually includes something about finding a 'soul-mate' right off the bat.

Ok, so I am going to update my answer a little bit here - with some practical advice, because I think Sarah has a really good point - and I should have probably said all of this in my last post:

Whatever he tells you - double check it. Make Google your best friend - the best friend you ever had - and use the translator, too. Real life example from my own situation...

My Algerian told me a story about how his house collapsed (years ago) because of an earthquake. He told me his brother died, and he and his grandmother survived. He told me that he works in a government institution, but has never gone to the military. He told me he makes less than minimum wage. All these things seemed questionable, at first. They somehow FIT the 'beware of scammers' big red flags. My head began to fill with doubts and suspicions, because very nice and well-intentioned people insisted that these were all lies - and they DID sound sketchy.

How was I able to verify ANY of these things? I Googled them in ARABIC and FRENCH - using the Google translator. Because nothing in English was coming up at all. But - I was doing my homework.

I didn't just Google it once and give up, either. I worked for it - I spent hours and hours and hours, reading and translating one article after the other. And lo and behold - what was so 'clearly' a red flag, so 'clearly' a scam...alllll turned out to be true.

The 'earthquake' was really a 'tremor,' but he just didn't know the word. That's why it did not match up with the international earthquake database for the day he said. However, I found a mention of it in a French newspaper, including the mention that one person died and the other two survived - it had the date he told me, and even the street name. I found articles about the students in Algiers protesting the government because they were being given temporary 'government' jobs with 'below minimum wages' - exactly like he said.

Also, he's very good looking, and for the first four months, I only had pictures - I did not see him on webcam. He said he didn't want to sit in a cyber cafe, and he didn't own a webcam. For my own peace of mind - because again, I was being warned that that might not be HIM in the pictures, and I was starting to think in a paranoid way myself, because of all the horror stories - I mailed him one. The same day he got it, he hooked it up, and yes, it really was him, all smiles and big brown eyes. I saw his family, his house - his life. All exactly like how he said it was.

I even ended up talking to an Algerian woman, quite randomly from YouTube comments, who lived in the same city and knew someone who worked at the same place where he said he worked, and it turns out this woman met him one day, when she went there to see her relative about something. She remembered him because he was the one who greeted her, and he was cute, she said, and she remembered he wore a dog-tag on his neck with English writing on it - and it just so happened to be the one I sent him with the webcam - which has our names on it. He told me he wore it every day - and this girl from YouTube who I began talking to at random remembered seeing it. Talk about a small, small, small, small world. So, again, every single thing was verified. I have never caught him in even the smallest lie.

So, for all of you just starting out - yes, it CAN be a scam, and it happens All The Time - just like Sarah is saying. But it might be love, too. It's up to YOU to do your homework, and double-check everything he tells you. Don't feel bad for doing it, don't feel bad for trying to spy on him or test him - you MUST. You have a lot at stake. Never make excuses for him if something does not check out. Keep track of his answers, and when some time has passed, enough for him to forget what he might have said...ask him the same questions again, and if the answers are different, then worry - and check some more. Keep checking and keep checking - but...and here's what I was driving at in my last post...don't 'assume' that it is a scam ONLY because of age, or location. Know that it 'might be' - but don't assume it until he gives you a good reason to doubt.

Sarah, are you with me on this?

[American Woman 75 21]

Zoletta you are still in the petitioning process. Talking about something 7 years post process 8 years post process is a completely different story.

Yes, Beauty for Ashes, but every story is a different story - and what happened to you, or someone else, is NOT a prediction for the future of other relationships. We can say the same things about women who let themselves go and become fat as we can about age. What will the husband do when the wife becomes fat? (insert emoticon with worried face and biting nails) And you will find so many fat women who will say that their husbands cheated on them with a better looking woman, and so forth.

People used to give these harsh warnings about inter-racial relationships, too. And for a time, people from the city and people from the country had the same warnings, as well. We can say the same about different religions.

In fact, if we give it enough thought - NO ONE should get married. It's too dangerous! We shouldn't even fall in love, because look at how many people end up with a broken heart.

We can't think that way - or we'll never be able to live our lives. We have to take a chance, sometimes. Be smart, of course, but there is no love that has ever, or could ever, exist...without the risk of getting hurt. It's impossible.

We can find ANY excuse under the sun to warn someone not to get married. The truth is, bad things happen to good people, and husbands lie, cheat, and leave their wives behind every single day - all around the world. If it's not one thing, it's another.

We can direct our lives according to statistics, or we can live our lives according to our unique experiences - and either way we choose is NO guarantee, anyway. We might end up with a broken heart and wiped out financially no matter HOW it starts out. These things happen, sometimes, and not a single one of us is excluded from the possibility.

[Boiler 46,322]

I have not read every post but I do not remember seeing anybody making predictions on an individual relationship

[JLSBMF 16]

Yes, Beauty for Ashes, but every story is a different story - and what happened to you, or someone else, is NOT a prediction for the future of other relationships. We can say the same things about women who let themselves go and become fat as we can about age. What will the husband do when the wife becomes fat? (insert emoticon with worried face and biting nails) And you will find so many fat women who will say that their husbands cheated on them with a better looking woman, and so forth.

People used to give these harsh warnings about inter-racial relationships, too. And for a time, people from the city and people from the country had the same warnings, as well. We can say the same about different religions.

In fact, if we give it enough thought - NO ONE should get married. It's too dangerous! We shouldn't even fall in love, because look at how many people end up with a broken heart.

We can't think that way - or we'll never be able to live our lives. We have to take a chance, sometimes. Be smart, of course, but there is no love that has ever, or could ever, exist...without the risk of getting hurt. It's impossible.

We can find ANY excuse under the sun to warn someone not to get married. The truth is, bad things happen to good people, and husbands lie, cheat, and leave their wives behind every single day - all around the world. If it's not one thing, it's another.

We can direct our lives according to statistics, or we can live our lives according to our unique experiences - and either way we choose is NO guarantee, anyway. We might end up with a broken heart and wiped out financially no matter HOW it starts out. These things happen, sometimes, and not a single one of us is excluded from the possibility.

I am so with you on this subject - just because someone got burned does not mean we are all naive desperate older women without common sense.

For me life is about taking chances and following my heart my gut instinct and I knew from day one this amazing man was everything I ever dreamed of

on so many levels and I was not going to let fear drive me away. All relationships go thru ups and downs trials and tribulations regardless of age and distance. I would much rather take my chance and pray for a wonderful outlook than walk away because of everyone elses fears and negative expierences.

[berber_wife 90]

Zoletta, I remember you from months back and I think I underestimated you. You seem very smart and aware. Am I ready to count your relationship as a success? No, but I'm not ready to count mine as a success either. You make some very good points about checking things out and being aware. Give them enough rope and time to hang themselves. While there are some scammers who are so skilled at lying that they can keep up the act indefinitely without showing any red flags, most will slip up eventually. Just keep up the awareness when you are actually in Algeria!

I also agree with this:

In fact, if we give it enough thought - NO ONE should get married. It's too dangerous! We shouldn't even fall in love, because look at how many people end up with a broken heart.

We can't think that way - or we'll never be able to live our lives. We have to take a chance, sometimes. Be smart, of course, but there is no love that has ever, or could ever, exist...without the risk of getting hurt. It's impossible.

I've done that--come up with a bunch of reasons why a relationship with a USC would be an equal risk and ended up paralyzed with fear and half-convinced that I shouldn't marry anyone, ever. Marriage is scary, no matter who you marry. But it's something I still want in my life, so I do need a slap on the head sometimes to stop overanalyzing and creating problems where there are none.

[sandinista! 1,816]

There's more to it than "all marriage is risky". Humans driving cars is risky too. But there are degrees to risk, and things that come into play when assessing risk. When my son starts driving a car in a few years, there's a reason why his insurance premiums won't be the same as mine, with my long term, safe driving record. And there's a reason why some of the situations that come up on this board look like major risks, and reckless, and others look more in control.

[American Woman 75 21]

I am so with you on this subject - just because someone got burned does not mean we are all naive desperate older women without common sense.

For me life is about taking chances and following my heart my gut instinct and I knew from day one this amazing man was everything I ever dreamed of

on so many levels and I was not going to let fear drive me away. All relationships go thru ups and downs trials and tribulations regardless of age and distance. I would much rather take my chance and pray for a wonderful outlook than walk away because of everyone elses fears and negative expierences.

Thank you sooo much! That is exactly what I was trying to say. I, too, am willing to take a chance on love, and I don't consider myself to be a naive older woman without common sense, either. I've had a broken heart more than a few times in my life, and I'm still here to tell the tale. I am not afraid. I don't want to hide under the table while the man who makes my heart skip a beat is sitting in one of two chairs, waiting for me to join him.