Older American woman Younger Algerian man

[American Woman 75 21]

There's more to it than "all marriage is risky". Humans driving cars is risky too. But there are degrees to risk, and things that come into play when assessing risk. When my son starts driving a car in a few years, there's a reason why his insurance premiums won't be the same as mine, with my long term, safe driving record. And there's a reason why some of the situations that come up on this board look like major risks, and reckless, and others look more in control.

What you say is absolutely 100% true. But the point I keep trying to make is that there's more than one thing to look at. We can't say 'only' because of this, or 'only' because of that. Women have to be smart - they have to check and double-check and try to be as sure as possible. Yes, absolutely, be aware of the red flags - but at the same time, what might appear to be a red flag does not always turn out to be a red flag...like in my case.

So the bottom is...be careful, be smart, check things out - if something doesn't smell right, get the hell out of there. If everything checks out, don't let age alone be the cause of throwing away an otherwise good relationship.

[berber_wife 90]

There's more to it than "all marriage is risky". Humans driving cars is risky too. But there are degrees to risk, and things that come into play when assessing risk. When my son starts driving a car in a few years, there's a reason why his insurance premiums won't be the same as mine, with my long term, safe driving record. And there's a reason why some of the situations that come up on this board look like major risks, and reckless, and others look more in control.

Well yeah, I certainly agree with that, especially your last sentence. Which is why I always encourage people to take things slow and really get to know their partner. But I feel like sometimes there's an implication from the veterans that being in a MENA relationship is so inherently risky that there is nothing you can do to negate the risk. That the taking it slow, getting to know him, spending lots of time together, talking about expectations mean nothing because after all, MENA men are the best actors EVAH and can go on scamming for years and years without showing a single sign that he's anything but the world's most perfect partner. Or he'll become a completely different person once he gets over here/becomes a father/turns 40/whatever and he'll no longer bear any resemblance to the man you actually married.

I don't think that's what's happening in this thread, FTR. I've found this thread INCREDIBLY helpful, despite the random spurts of bickering. But if you're already proceeding with caution, keeping your eyes open, being smart about it...eventually you do have to let go of some of your fears and the words of the naysayers, or risk losing a good relationship.

[American Woman 75 21]

I've said it before and I'll say it again: the May/December women need to take a look at what their life will be like in 20 years and ask themselves if they can live with all of the possibilities. One of those possibilities is she's well into her 60s and he's turned the corner on 40. She certainly can't have children but he can - and he's got 20 years of accumulating some type of wealth and he needs children to leave it to. Or, she's not meeting his needs in the bedroom. Whatever the reason may be, she can't stop him from availing himself of his rights and can she live with that.

Anything can happen in 20 years - a lot of 'ordinary' marriages don't even make it that far. We could be dead by then! But in any case, yes, I HAVE thought about the future, and I HAVE imagined how it might be. I even went onto match.com and scanned through all the photos of men who are 17 years older than I am, and asked myself honestly if I would be disgusted because of their aged appearance, or if I would be ok. I found that I would be ok. They did not appear 'too old' to me, and if I loved one of them, even better.

So it's not impossible. It depends on the person. And anyway, I'm stocking up on my anti-wrinkle cream!!

[American Woman 75 21]

Well yeah, I certainly agree with that, especially your last sentence. Which is why I always encourage people to take things slow and really get to know their partner. But I feel like sometimes there's an implication from the veterans that being in a MENA relationship is so inherently risky that there is nothing you can do to negate the risk. That the taking it slow, getting to know him, spending lots of time together, talking about expectations mean nothing because after all, MENA men are the best actors EVAH and can go on scamming for years and years without showing a single sign that he's anything but the world's most perfect partner. Or he'll become a completely different person once he gets over here/becomes a father/turns 40/whatever and he'll no longer bear any resemblance to the man you actually married.

I don't think that's what's happening in this thread, FTR. I've found this thread INCREDIBLY helpful, despite the random spurts of bickering. But if you're already proceeding with caution, keeping your eyes open, being smart about it...eventually you do have to let go of some of your fears and the words of the naysayers, or risk losing a good relationship.

Incredibly wise advice.

[Ihavequestions 419]

Anything can happen in 20 years - a lot of 'ordinary' marriages don't even make it that far. We could be dead by then! But in any case, yes, I HAVE thought about the future, and I HAVE imagined how it might be. I even went onto match.com and scanned through all the photos of men who are 17 years older than I am, and asked myself honestly if I would be disgusted because of their aged appearance, or if I would be ok. I found that I would be ok. They did not appear 'too old' to me, and if I loved one of them, even better.

So it's not impossible. It depends on the person. And anyway, I'm stocking up on my anti-wrinkle cream!!

It's all fabulous that you've assessed the future of this relationship based on what you bring to the table, but nothing says that you've had a conversation about what will happen in 20 years, or having children with your guy, and the increasing likelihood that you either won't be able to give him children or a large family, if that's what he wants. Have you talked about him marrying one, two, or three more while you're married? Have you talked to him about what will happen with his worldly goods and who, aside from you, will inherit that? Have you had these incredibly difficult conversations with him? Nobody can predict the future. If we could, we'd buy just one lottery ticket and be set for life. But there are cold, hard realities we can address and prevent the damage.

Edited October 21, 2013 by Ihavequestions

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

It's all fabulous that you've assessed the future of this relationship based on what you bring to the table, but nothing says that you've had a conversation about what will happen in 20 years, or having children with your guy, and the increasing likelihood that you either won't be able to give him children or a large family, if that's what he wants. Have you talked about him marrying one, two, or three more while you're married? Have you talked to him about what will happen with his worldly goods and who, aside from you, will inherit that? Have you had these incredibly difficult conversations with him? Nobody can predict the future. If we could, we'd buy just one lottery ticket and be set for life. But there are cold, hard realities we can address and prevent the damage.

Yep

[American Woman 75 21]

It's all fabulous that you've assessed the future of this relationship based on what you bring to the table, but nothing says that you've had a conversation about what will happen in 20 years, or having children with your guy, and the increasing likelihood that you either won't be able to give him children or a large family, if that's what he wants. Have you talked about him marrying one, two, or three more while you're married? Have you talked to him about what will happen with his worldly goods and who, aside from you, will inherit that? Have you had these incredibly difficult conversations with him? Nobody can predict the future. If we could, we'd buy just one lottery ticket and be set for life. But there are cold, hard realities we can address and prevent the damage.

No, I see no point whatsoever in discussing what 20 years from now would be like. Neither one of us know who we will be or what we will feel or want or like or love 20 years from now. Our 20 year older selves have not yet been created - so it would be a discussion about purely fictional characters.

As for children, we have discussed this more than once. He is Muslim, and so believes that if Allah wants him to have a child, he will give it. If he does not, then it will not come. He said even if he married someone his own age, if it was not 'written' for him to have one, it will not come. Maybe not because of the woman's age, but for some other reason. But, of course, he wants to try, and told me that there is a neighbor of his who had her first child at 50 years old. And here, I know several women who have had perfectly healthy babies in their mid to late 40s - first child. And if it doesn't happen, he said, he cannot be angry about it, or feel sad, because the decision comes from Allah, so he can only say 'thank you' - and that's fine by me.

About leaving his worldly possessions - I have not given that any thought at all and I don't care. He doesn't have anything right now, anyway. And even when he does, later on in life, I really don't care who he leaves it to, because I have my own house and money, so I'm not too worried about it.

I asked him about the multiple wife thing, and he thought that was pretty funny. He said he's never seen it or heard about it anywhere in his city. He has NO interest in that whatsoever. And if he did, it would be 'goodbye Charlie' and adios amigos.

None of this was scary or heart-breaking to me to discuss at all. And none of these things makes me worry, either. If we can't come to an agreement on the basics, we'd have to part ways, and that would be ok - we would both survive and move on. But to fret over what might happen in 20 years - no. That's outrageous. I might not even live that long. And as I've said - 20 years AGO, I could not have predicted who I am today. So how can I know anything about how I will be 20 years from now? Those years are made up of days, so every day, I will do my best to keep the relationship strong, and make efforts so that we grow together, not apart. There is no bridge between today and 20 years into the future, we can only get there day by day, and that's what we need to give our attention to. Make each and every day count.

I'm not expecting any guarantees about my life with him...and I wouldn't from anyone, no matter who they were or where they are from. If it doesn't work out, it will not be because of age. It will be because of some other challenge - and that's ok. That's life. And I'm not afraid of that.

If someone is afraid to lose, they shouldn't be in the game. I've asked myself over and over, 'Can I handle it if he breaks my heart?'

Yes. I can handle it.

How can I be so sure? Because I've survived the pain of everyone in my family who's ever loved me dying a slow and painful death from cancer, including my mother when she was only 42 years old, and my grandmother dying only nine months after her - then someone else, and someone else...three of them dying while I held their hand, and two of them dying here in my house. ALL of them needing me to take care of them, change their diapers and spoon feed them as their bodies wasted away and their color changed and their minds slowly slipped away to some dark painful place that makes us almost unrecognizable to our former healthy selves.

I've had heartbreak after heartbreak - including being cheated on in my 20s only weeks before I was supposed to get married, after NINE years of what I thought was a love that would last forever.

I've survived a divorce, in my 30s, because my newlywed husband threw me away when I suffered a devastating adverse reaction to an antibiotic that made me, for a time, have trouble speaking, reading, thinking, walking...and feel pains in my body that can only be described like as if my flesh were sliding loose on the bone.

Certainly, not everyone has such a list of tragedies as this. But we all have things that we survived, we all have things that, if they don't kill us, only make us stronger.

So...afraid of love? Afraid of things not working out? No. I can't feel it. Not in a blind and stupid way, either. Just in the sense that; I am a big girl, and I can take it.

I always say to my friends at home, 'This is either going to be the best decision of my life, or the worst. Either way, I am prepared.'

How to prepare for the worst? Like I said in an earlier post, double check every single word that comes out of their mouth, and do your homework. So far, he's passing with flying colors. Secondly, Beauty to Ashes is right - everyone should have a pre-nup. And that goes for EVERYONE - no matter if you're marrying another American or not. We ALL should have that in place. Thirdly, ask yourself, honestly, if you will be ok in the worst case scenario. If yes, proceed. If not, stop and about face.

Never gamble with what you're not prepared to lose.

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

For those of us wondering, I do hope you'll share what exactly makes you think a reformed scammer is a-ok boyfriend material Kat. Wouldn't touch that with someone else's 10 foot pole. "American woman mistreated me, blah blah blah held me hostage" is nearly always just the stateside version of "all the Arab womens are money grubbing, immature, intellectually inferior" nonsense...

Are you saying that alot of the men who marry Americans use the held me hostage argument to validate ditching their wife after they get what they want?

I frankly think alot of them do. I am personally very happy with the man I am dating. I know basically the only reason he is here is because some woman killed herself to get him here. I did the same thing. I am sure my ex will be a hell of a lot nicer to pretty much everyone he meets after I spent thousands , was abused and went through unmentionable horrors. Which leads me to my next point. The guy I am with doesnt hit me. Helps me in the house and treats me decently. So he left the woman who brought him here. He did. So do alot of these guys honestly.If I was mean to everyone I know who is north african and got their papers from an american and left them afterwards, I would have to stay mad all the time. Because if they didnt win the lottery and are moroccan and live around me, most have and most tell me the same nonsense. She drank .. she did this and that. And the reality is she was older and he married her just for papers and could not stand her. Period. Thats why they leave. And it really varies as to whether they stay friends after the screwing over... really depends..He is the same age as me. We dont have an age gap. We have common interests. He is far from perfect but hes not a psycho like my ex.Hes basically a pretty normal guy. How he got here is how alot of these guys get here. They marry people. Alot of the times, the marriages do not work. Mine did not .. no matter how hard I tried..Maybe his ex did too. I sure am not going to call her and ask her. I can only IMAGINE the bs my ex is laying on everyone he meets. Do I care now? Nope. Moved on with my life trying to be happy and just get over stuff.

Does it hurt to be a jackass for a man and get used? Yep . It undermines everything in your heart and how you feel about yourself. The pain is unbearable and feels almost impossible to survive. The guy I am dating actually KNEW my ex when we were married and did not know me personally. When your ex has walked around and told people I Cant wait to get my papers and dump my wife and tells people how much you love him and what a dumb ### you are.. and about their GIRLFRIENDS and then goes out with other people and other arabs see that, they tend to have some empathy with the american women getting hurt. Believe me! I have had other Algerians walk up to both of us in the grocery store and tell me OH MY GOD you look so much better and I am so glad you left him ... The guy I am dating knew what a piece of my ex was and didnt need me to tell him. He already knew what happened... So it saved me the explanation. We met in March.. Its almost November so 8 months so far and we might not go far but it certainly has been ALOT better of a relationship than what I had with my ex. It helped me to have someone be good to me after so many years of bad....

[Nasturtium 500]

I just want to mention just in case people may benefit from this is that to me, the worst possible scenario isn't really breaking up-- but rather breaking up and then having to deal with the I864 if the other person turned out to be a giant tool. So for those who haven't really read or understood the I-864, maybe take the time to do so now. Divorce does not negate it. It does not "time out." The beneficiary either works enough qualified quarters (minimum of 10 years iirc) or becomes a USC. Lots of discussion about heartbreak and such, but not a lot of discussion about how when you're in the midst of this, it could also turn out to be a financial disaster that affects you and your family's life for a long, long time.

[sandinista! 1,816]

Well yeah, I certainly agree with that, especially your last sentence. Which is why I always encourage people to take things slow and really get to know their partner. But I feel like sometimes there's an implication from the veterans that being in a MENA relationship is so inherently risky that there is nothing you can do to negate the risk. That the taking it slow, getting to know him, spending lots of time together, talking about expectations mean nothing because after all, MENA men are the best actors EVAH and can go on scamming for years and years without showing a single sign that he's anything but the world's most perfect partner. Or he'll become a completely different person once he gets over here/becomes a father/turns 40/whatever and he'll no longer bear any resemblance to the man you actually married.

I don't think that's what's happening in this thread, FTR. I've found this thread INCREDIBLY helpful, despite the random spurts of bickering. But if you're already proceeding with caution, keeping your eyes open, being smart about it...eventually you do have to let go of some of your fears and the words of the naysayers, or risk losing a good relationship.

Those are all good things, what you recommend. I've read lots of helpful things you've written, and appreciated your clearheaded approach. And you're right, at some point you've got to chill a bit, and let stuff happen, and take risks, and see where your life takes you.

There are, however, varying degrees of quality to those assessments. And those assessments have been analyzed for many years on VJ, and will probably continue to be, because there are no hard and fast answers that are always correct, in every situation, all of the time. Some people's ideas of what putting their SO through a scrutinizing ringer consists of can be really off. Some people's perceptions of "this action TOTALLY means he loves me forever and ever" are just, no. Some of that is just difference of opinion/values/personalities/priorities. And some of it is just #######. All kinds of opinions on this exist on the board.

Sometimes a guy from MENA is genuinely quirky, and stuff he'll say is totally incongruent culture wise, but that's just him. Other times, he's reciting perfectly rehearsed BS. Does the American in this scenario know enough about the place this guy comes from to know what he's saying is weird for there? If so, does she know enough about him to tell whether or not he's being a big poseur for her sake, and investigate or discuss the matter more in depth with him?

The consulates assess these relationships all day, every day. Even they get it wrong. There's couples denied the first go around that are together years and years later, and ones they've let in that have left me, as a reader, with my jaw hanging open. So obviously it's a hard thing to assess. And without just shouting at people to "respect the consulate's authority and experience !!!!!", there is something to the fact that MENA ones are difficult. And that they far more often err on the side of handing someone a visa who really shouldn't have one, as opposed to blocking legit people.

Some people don't err as much on the side of "they're probably totally legit" with their opinions here. Oh well. Who cares? People are just talking to each other here. The ones who don't err on that side with their opinions usually didn't arrive there out of nowhere. Or out of just not liking women that are older than men in MENA relationships.

[Nasturtium 500]

Well yeah, I certainly agree with that, especially your last sentence. Which is why I always encourage people to take things slow and really get to know their partner. But I feel like sometimes there's an implication from the veterans that being in a MENA relationship is so inherently risky that there is nothing you can do to negate the risk. That the taking it slow, getting to know him, spending lots of time together, talking about expectations mean nothing because after all, MENA men are the best actors EVAH and can go on scamming for years and years without showing a single sign that he's anything but the world's most perfect partner. Or he'll become a completely different person once he gets over here/becomes a father/turns 40/whatever and he'll no longer bear any resemblance to the man you actually married.

I don't think that's what's happening in this thread, FTR. I've found this thread INCREDIBLY helpful, despite the random spurts of bickering. But if you're already proceeding with caution, keeping your eyes open, being smart about it...eventually you do have to let go of some of your fears and the words of the naysayers, or risk losing a good relationship.

Yep, yep! And I agree with what Sandinista wrote above me.

(even though she is obviously going to hell in a hand basket for being olderrrrrr).

[American Woman 75 21]

Sometimes a guy from MENA is genuinely quirky, and stuff he'll say is totally incongruent culture wise, but that's just him. Other times, he's reciting perfectly rehearsed BS. Does the American in this scenario know enough about the place this guy comes from to know what he's saying is weird for there? If so, does she know enough about him to tell whether or not he's being a big poseur for her sake, and investigate or discuss the matter more in depth with him?

Sandinistal, this is such an excellent point! I have thought about this, too. The solution I came up with was to befriend as many other Algerians as I could, on pen pal sites, on YouTube, wherever I could find them...then try to have as many friendly conversations with them as possible. Then compare. And ask them questions - talk about similar subjects, and see if there's a certain way of thinking or reacting that seems normal or not.

I also sought out many Algerian women, and asked them about Algerian men. I was able to learn a lot this way! And I was also able to differentiate between loving him for his 'Algerian charm' or loving him for his individuality. In the end, it was a little of both.

And I've come to find out that...I really, really, really love Algerians in general. They're soo enjoyable to talk with. But none of the Algerian friends I made gave me the same kind of feelings that MY Algerian gives me. I do notice a difference - something special. A type of insight that my guy has that is not common, and runs a little deeper than most. The way he can read me. The way he listens. The way he makes me feel better when I'm down. The way he makes me laugh. The funny faces he makes. All of those things and a million more are what make my heart go boom boom boom every time he comes online.

[berber_wife 90]

I approach my relationship in a methodical way partly because it's my personality and partly as a way of feeling in control. And my advice reflects that. But sometimes I take it too far and end up making myself miserable and hurting the person who has been nothing but awesome to me for the past two years. I haven't been able to find a good balance.

And yeah, all my risk-benefits assessments and pro/con lists I make in my head lend a partly false sense of security because as you said, there are no hard and fast answers that are always correct, in every situation, all of the time.

So I will still encourage people to take their time, spend as much time as possible with their partners, keep their eyes open and ask the right questions because I think that's the right way to do things and I thought that even before MENA became a part of my regular vocabulary. But how to prepare for the future unknowns, changes you can't anticipate? I've got nothing. All I can say is talk, but what if you agree on something in 2013 but by 2023, life experience and changing values have caused your spouse to change their mind? And you can't live with that? THAT'S scary.

[Meriem_DZ 37]

Hi, It's been a while. I just popped in and noticed I was mentioned in this thread. Hachemi and I celebrated our 7th anniverary in Sept. We are still very happily married. My husband has not changed since the day I met him. He still adores me as I do him. In our case there is an age difference of 12 1/2 years. But what I think helped make our marriage be succesful, is that I met him when he was in his 30's and I was in my mid 40's. Now my sweety is 40 and I hate to say my age now. (You can do the math). LOL. He still adores me as I do him. We have so much fun together. It took him 5 years of working min. wage crappy jobs and finally someone saw in him what I did and gave him a chance. He has a great job, been in his position 2 years, and making pretty decent money with great benifits.

I wish I had some good advice to give. It's just hard for me to give any helpful advice with such a large age difference and the guy being so very young. So I will just leave it at that.

My friend Cheryl and her husband Kamel (Algerian) are still happily married also for 7 years. We met here on visa journey and since they are about a 100 or so miles from us, we meet often in person and spend time together.

Kat, so nice to hear that you are happy. I don't know if you remember, but my husband is from Setif also.

[mahboula 11]

No, I see no point whatsoever in discussing what 20 years from now would be like. Neither one of us know who we will be or what we will feel or want or like or love 20 years from now. Our 20 year older selves have not yet been created - so it would be a discussion about purely fictional characters.

.

I totally agree with you. Who knows who or where we will be in 20 years. So I understand why it's not that important for you to talk about it. However, if things work out on your visit, the two of you will eventually have an interview to prepare for. They might ask him a question like that. You have a few "red flags", and while it seems you're doing an excellent job of preparing yourself, you've got to try to see things from the CO's point of view. They have been known to ask about future plans, and have even asked very bluntly "Why do you want to marry a woman so old?", or "why don't you want to marry a younger/more beautiful/Algerian woman?" Your man should be ready to answer questions about your future together as a couple.

I always say to my friends at home, 'This is either going to be the best decision of my life, or the worst. Either way, I am prepared.'

How to prepare for the worst? Like I said in an earlier post, double check every single word that comes out of their mouth, and do your homework. So far, he's passing with flying colors. Secondly, Beauty to Ashes is right - everyone should have a pre-nup. And that goes for EVERYONE - no matter if you're marrying another American or not. We ALL should have that in place. Thirdly, ask yourself, honestly, if you will be ok in the worst case scenario. If yes, proceed. If not, stop and about face.

Never gamble with what you're not prepared to lose.

Again, you're doing what you can to protect and prepare yourself, but remember, the CO doesn't have years to get to know him. They won't ask him hundreds of questions at the interview. If a VJ member, or a friend points out something to you that is unusual, or culturally incongruent, chances are that the CO will notice it too. They may ask him about it. You won't be there. They won't ask you. While your explanations on VJ are reasonable, and informed, and you seem very intelligent, the CO won't know this. They don't care if you're prepared to be wrong about him.

You're taking your time, proceding with caution, and attempting build a strong relationship. Don't forget you will need to build a strong case. Many people "front-load" their petitions with extra photos, chat logs, etc. One suggestion, is to include some of these "deeper" conversations with your petition. Talk about the things you don't necessarily want to talk about. If they actually read the logs, then at least they'll have a chance to get to know a little bit about who you are as a person and as a couple.

As for children, we have discussed this more than once. He is Muslim, and so believes that if Allah wants him to have a child, he will give it. If he does not, then it will not come. He said even if he married someone his own age, if it was not 'written' for him to have one, it will not come. Maybe not because of the woman's age, but for some other reason. But, of course, he wants to try, and told me that there is a neighbor of his who had her first child at 50 years old. And here, I know several women who have had perfectly healthy babies in their mid to late 40s - first child. And if it doesn't happen, he said, he cannot be angry about it, or feel sad, because the decision comes from Allah, so he can only say 'thank you' - and that's fine by me

You posted in an older thread that you are an atheist. At that time, I just assumed your man was not Muslim, or perhaps not practicing...whatever. Now that you've said he is, I'm having a "things that make you go hmmm???" moment. It seems very strange to me that he doesn't have a problem with your beliefs or lack thereof. I'm no expert, so someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that a Muslim could/would not marry an atheist. Even if he is ok with it, I have to wonder how his family feels about it. While the two of you may be ok with it, you can be sure that it's another red flag that will make the CO do a doubletake. He should be prepared to answer questions regarding that as well.

There are, however, varying degrees of quality to those assessments. And those assessments have been analyzed for many years on VJ, and will probably continue to be, because there are no hard and fast answers that are always correct, in every situation, all of the time. Some people's ideas of what putting their SO through a scrutinizing ringer consists of can be really off. Some people's perceptions of "this action TOTALLY means he loves me forever and ever" are just, no. Some of that is just difference of opinion/values/personalities/priorities. And some of it is just #######. All kinds of opinions on this exist on the board.