Family feud ends in tragedy as 'daughter and husband break into parents home and shoot mother and brother dead before father kills them'

[Sousuke 1,214]

I have come across different research in the past few years trying to explain the drop in murder rates and crime in general. Firearms don't seem to play an important role.

1. Cocaine use is closely tied to the rates, peaking with crime. (The notion that the drug itself fueled crime and murder)

2. Abortion rates increased as crime dropped - with a delay (The notion that unwanted children are more likely to be criminals)

3. Lead fuel was made illegal - with a delay(The notion that as exposure drops so does the crime rate)

IMO its probably the combo of 1 and 2.

Edited September 30, 2013 by Brown Dwarf

[himher 634]

I have come across different research in the past few years trying to explain the drop in murder rates and crime in general. Firearms don't seem to play an important role.

1. Cocaine use is closely tied to the rates, peaking with crime. (The notion that the drug itself fueled crime and murder)

2. Abortion rates increased as crime dropped - with a delay (The notion that unwanted children are more likely to be criminals)

3. Lead fuel was made illegal - with a delay(The notion that as exposure drops so does the crime rate)

IMO its probably the combo of 1 and 2.

(4) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incarceration_in_the_United_States + http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Violent_crime_rates_by_gender_1973-2003.jpg

It's probably 4

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Correct. And if there were 10 murders in a year and 7 of them were by gun it would still be 70%. I chose to see it optimistically, the number of murders has gone down substantially. You chose to focus on the negative. And if there were only 10 murders and 7 by gun in the entire country, some of you would still be presenting the same argument.

I'm not focusing on the negative. I am focusing on the fact that today, just as was the case 40 years ago, 7 out of 10 murders are committed with a firearm. When that ratio goes down, then we'll see a real decrease in homicides that takes us out of banana republic territory on that metric.

[spookyturtle 9,465]

I'm not focusing on the negative. I am focusing on the fact that today, just as was the case 40 years ago, 7 out of 10 murders are committed with a firearm. When that ratio goes down, then we'll see a real decrease in homicides that takes us out of banana republic territory on that metric.

We've already had a decrease of approximately 6000+ homicides by firearm since 1993, about a 40% reduction. But I guess that's not a real improvement? Nice dodge.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

We've already had a decrease of approximately 6000+ homicides by firearm since 1993, about a 40% reduction. But I guess that's not a real improvement? Nice dodge.

We're still nowhere near first world countries in terms of homicide rates. We're still deep in banana republic territory. That might be satisfactory to born and raised Americans. This naturalized American tends to believe that we can do much better. You should have a little more faith in this nation from time to time. Don't settle for mediocrity. I won't.

[Harsh_77 718]

I'm not focusing on the negative. I am focusing on the fact that today, just as was the case 40 years ago, 7 out of 10 murders are committed with a firearm. When that ratio goes down, then we'll see a real decrease in homicides that takes us out of banana republic territory on that metric.

The idea that less gun leads to less murder is completely flawed and you can see that in UK but libs don’t want to look at the facts.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

The idea that less gun leads to less murder is completely flawed and you can see that in UK but libs don’t want to look at the facts.

Wanna look at facts? The homicide rate in the UK is less than a fourth of what it is in the US.

[himher 634]

We're still nowhere near first world countries in terms of homicide rates. We're still deep in banana republic territory. That might be satisfactory to born and raised Americans. This naturalized American tends to believe that we can do much better. You should have a little more faith in this nation from time to time. Don't settle for mediocrity. I won't.

It is not a satisfaction at all that in 86.9% of America, the murder rate is 2.14, and in 13.1% of America the murder rate is 15.7. Our problem in American is not guns, or gun ownership, it is an extreme difference in culture and values based on demographics.

86.9% of America should not and are not willing to pay for, be penalized for, lose rights for, or in any way, shape, or form have to answer to or for the actions of 13.1%.

Please note that a murder rate of 2.14 is lower than Europe (3.5) and lower than Asia (3.1). Please note that a murder rate of 15.7 is approximately equal to the murder rates in Ghana (15.7) and Chad (15.8).

The NRA and law-abiding gun owners are my community and the 13.1% of America where the murder rate is 15.7 do not represent or have anything to do with my community and in fact we stay as far from that culture and those values as possible. If you want to continue to defend and stand with those 13.1% of Americans be my guest. Unless you have specific data that you are welcome to post anydamtime you want you are quite well invited to stop lumping me and my community in with yourself and the community that you consistantly identify with.

[The Nature Boy 4,224]

It is not a satisfaction at all that in 86.9% of America, the murder rate is 2.14, and in 13.1% of America the murder rate is 15.7. Our problem in American is not guns, or gun ownership, it is an extreme difference in culture and values based on demographics.

86.9% of America should not and are not willing to pay for, be penalized for, lose rights for, or in any way, shape, or form have to answer to or for the actions of 13.1%.

Please note that a murder rate of 2.14 is lower than Europe (3.5) and lower than Asia (3.1). Please note that a murder rate of 15.7 is approximately equal to the murder rates in Ghana (15.7) and Chad (15.8).

The NRA and law-abiding gun owners are my community and the 13.1% of America where the murder rate is 15.7 do not represent or have anything to do with my community and in fact we stay as far from that culture and those values as possible. If you want to continue to defend and stand with those 13.1% of Americans be my guest. Unless you have specific data that you are welcome to post anydamtime you want you are quite well invited to stop lumping me and my community in with yourself and the community that you consistantly identify with.

+1 zillion

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

It is not a satisfaction at all that in 86.9% of America, the murder rate is 2.14, and in 13.1% of America the murder rate is 15.7. Our problem in American is not guns, or gun ownership, it is an extreme difference in culture and values based on demographics.

86.9% of America should not and are not willing to pay for, be penalized for, lose rights for, or in any way, shape, or form have to answer to or for the actions of 13.1%.

Please note that a murder rate of 2.14 is lower than Europe (3.5) and lower than Asia (3.1). Please note that a murder rate of 15.7 is approximately equal to the murder rates in Ghana (15.7) and Chad (15.8).

The NRA and law-abiding gun owners are my community and the 13.1% of America where the murder rate is 15.7 do not represent or have anything to do with my community and in fact we stay as far from that culture and those values as possible. If you want to continue to defend and stand with those 13.1% of Americans be my guest. Unless you have specific data that you are welcome to post anydamtime you want you are quite well invited to stop lumping me and my community in with yourself and the community that you consistantly identify with.

cherry-picking much?

[himher 634]

cherry-picking much?

You said you wanted to look at facts homey. I'm hearing crickets to this and crickets to your imaginary gun ownership numbers but hey the offer for "Unless you have specific data that you are welcome to post anydamtime you want" still stands.

[Teddy B 17,252]

You said you wanted to look at facts homey. I'm hearing crickets to this and crickets to your imaginary gun ownership numbers but hey the offer for "Unless you have specific data that you are welcome to post anydamtime you want" still stands.

When you hand pick the parts of the equation you want to use to make the numbers work for you, that pretty much throws logic and reasoning out the window. I'm sure the EU countries have a certain percentage of their population that commit more crime than the others, did you remember to remove the "bad apples" out of the EU stats that you used?

You're hearing crickets because you can't just remove one part of the equation to tip the numbers in your favor and expect anyone to take you seriously.

[Danno 1,228]

Now we just need to work on bringing down the processed and fast foods and we may see obesity subsiding, too.

Ah yes, aND THERE IS THE nugget of truth within your purpose.

Folks you let these people think they have the power to play nanny, there is no end to it.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

You said you wanted to look at facts homey.

Cherry-picked facts do not make for a meaningful discussion.

[RGinWA 816]

No matter what common sense says...DON'T TOUCH OUR FIREARMS!

Jesus, the seething fear by some firearm owners is nonsensical.

Register voters with ID's...because obviously they are dangerous.