Is there any way to stop unhealthy VJ-mob scapegoating?

[Novembro 1,763]

I just appreciate your use of OUTRAGE!

[Ebunoluwa 6,136]

You're right to not begrudge those who benefit from the USCIS due to a systemic process, even if that systemic process ultimately redounds to your detriment. And you are right to separate out discussion from vitriolic attacks. I thus don't see you as trivializing the issues or thumbing your nose at anybody.

My issue with the OP and with the subsequent comments is that they seem eager to conflate those who studied and understood the problems with the implementation of DACA with those who have antipathy for those who benefited from DACA. The groups are not mutually exclusive by any means, but nor are they one and the same.

Moreover, just because a sub-group of the people who were affected by DACA's poor implementation vented their frustrations towards those who benefited from DACA, it does not somehow change the fact that DACA did affect the larger group. I understand many on this board have waited excessive times for a variety of reasons beyond their control. That stinks. And everyone of those people will turn around and tell you that the system is broken and a mess. But what I cannot understand is when those same people then resign themselves and everyone else in the system to just having to deal with the mess, a behavior which guarantees the mess will be sitting there for the next person who petitions.

No one person is likely to change the way the USCIS operates. That's a given. But this is a community, not a single person. If petitioners cannot come here to discuss issues, organize responses, and share notes, then where can they go? I think it's a very good thing that people use this board to try share knowledge and insight, and I think it's even better when they then turn around and, based on that collective knowledge and insight, inform their elected representatives about the systemic problems they and others have encountered.

Lastly, I really cannot understand how your long wait time made you less empathetic towards people who were waiting, even if their wait times were less than yours. The wait times in processing create real hardship for those experiencing them, be they 4 months or 14 months. It's even worse when the USCIS knows (or should reasonably know based on their own data) that there will be an extension in wait times and fails to disclose or discuss that fact, leaving all the petitioners in the dark and unable to plan for their lives. And that's exactly what happened with the DACA implementation debacle. Not only did the USCIS's political priorities cause a major delay for I-129F filers, but the agency made it much worse (at least for me and several others I know) by trying to keep mum about the whole thing, which in turn prevented thousands of people from properly planning their affairs. That's nothing to be dismissive of.

I agree with most of what you have said here. I do not see the OP and the topic as being dismissive, but focusing on the mob attitude.

As I said I am in favor of discussing it but it is the way and manner of anger that is frequently posted that is unnecessary.

And I stand by my 4 month versus 3 year ordeal, 4 month is a drop in the bucket and absolutely nothing to start hating about.

Hate and frenzy was the core of the topic, not discussion.

[Harpa Timsah 13,258]

I&B, Your I-129F was approved in 6 months. That is USCIS's goal. Your total K-1 process was 8 months, also very normal.

You were not affected by DACA.

[I & B 273]

I&B, Your I-129F was approved in 6 months. That is USCIS's goal. Your total K-1 process was 8 months, also very normal.

You were not affected by DACA.

The USCIS goal is 5.5 months and my application took 6.5 months. I was very fortunate it was ultimately that short. Those who filed in the 2.5 months prior to me had waits up to 9 months, which is almost twice the goal time. In any case, it is undeniable that my month delay and the longer delays that preceded it were a result of the implementation of the DACA program. It was perfectly right to discuss that fact (which you have not and cannot refute) and petition congresspeople about it. And I think it's no coincidence at all that the fastest batch processing of I-129Fs in CSC history took place on the coattails of our VJ community campaign to draw attention to the issue. There were many members who reported their congressperson had taken a personal interest in the issue and was pressuring the USCIS about it. And then, poof, fastest processing times in history. Go figure. Whether or not the batch processing really did owe to our campaign we will never know for sure, but I do know the delays did owe to DACA and, had the batch processing not happened when it did, I would also have had a 9+ month wait. I'm glad that I studied the issue and helped do something about it. Are you sure you've actually studied the issue at all?

[Harpa Timsah 13,258]

And I think it's no coincidence at all that the fastest batch processing of I-129Fs in CSC history took place on the coattails of our VJ community campaign to draw attention to the issue.

You think Vj had anything to do with changing something at USCIS? No, I disagree with all of your points and logic, on that. That is how USCIS always works. Slow and faster, slow and faster.

Anyway, this was not a thread to discuss DACA. Please stay on topic.

[I & B 273]

You think Vj had anything to do with changing something at USCIS? No, I disagree with all of your points and logic, on that. That is how USCIS always works. Slow and faster, slow and faster.

Anyway, this was not a thread to discuss DACA. Please stay on topic.

I accounted for the boom and bust cycle of USCIS processing in my regression model. It covered two years of data for every filing type at the CSC. The slowdown in I-129F processing that we are discussing was still an abberration even accounting for the CSC's historical boom and bust patterns, and the slowness was almost entirely attributable (88% attributable, if i recall correctly) to the DACA program implementation. Those boom and bust cycles are not some secret that only "those who've been around a while" know about. You are really out of your depth discussing this as you obviously have not bothered to think deeply about the numbers relevant to his discussion or the analysis of those numbers that was done by myself and others.

And, as long as you keep being wrong about the issue, I will keep correcting you on it. If you don't want to be corrected, don't opine about topics you do not fully understand.

Edited September 29, 2013 by I & B

[Andrea&Henry 311]

I think this process can take the worst out of people...In my case I was approved in 3 month and by 7-8 month since I started my process I was getting married and celebrating my 1st month here in the States....7 month is now what people wait just for a NoA2 or even more...

The DACA obviously slowed things down (the USCIS post several threads about it and even saw it on tv) that's why some workload were transfer to Texas ect etc... I'm not saying is the best attitude cause in the end, acting like a mob doesn't make things faster but I do understand people's frustration.

I don't think (in general terms) that people get mad at the Haitians or the dreamers, but the system itself (just me saying). The Uscis should keep the "good work" even is something like the DACA or " X "process start happening.

But it's hard, people gets very frustrated, anxious...I know is not a right but when it comes to the love of your life, your children, parents is really hard not taking it very personal. I still remember all those days when I wasn't able to be with my now husband, missing him, not being able to be with him at his birthday, valentines day etc etc plus the anxiety

I really hope people here can separate their frustration and anger (which is completely normal) with the system, from the people who may cause "the delays" because is not their fault either

But I agree 100% with you.

[Ebunoluwa 6,136]

I'm "over it" in terms of no longer actively fighting the issue. But I don't see the utility in pretending it never happened, especially on a board like this where the lessons from past cycles are actually drawn upon by current petitioners. To the extent I studied at great length how USCIS processed petitions as a result of my personal experience with the DACA delays, it seems fitting I use benefit of that research to correct misinformation where it is posted. Such misinformation was not only posted here but was actually repeated several times. I happened to see it and politely and thoroughly corrected it. Or does my being "complete" somehow make the research and modeling I did less relevant to the exact issue upon which they focused?

I should add that it seems the only people who have trouble getting over something are those who (for motivations that are engimatic to me and contra to a vast trove of statistical and anecdotal evidence) insist that the massive initial processing of DACA petitions did not negatively affect the processing of I-129F petitions at the CSC. It's such a weird position to be so invested in--the gallant defender of the USCIS's short-term logistical capabilities and political independence. But guess what? Weirdness does not save it from being the wrong position. So I guess you true believers should "get over it."

I appreciated your stats and thought they were helpful and well analysed. I believe it did help many frustrated members understanding what the trend was.

I do not appreciate some peoples blame game and the anger projecting at dreamers or Haitians. It is the system that is to blame, not groups

of people.

Just wanted to clarify my previous comments.

[TBoneTX 45,266]

I'm "over it" in terms of no longer actively fighting the issue. But I don't see the utility in pretending it never happened, especially on a board like this where the lessons from past cycles are actually drawn upon by current petitioners. To the extent I studied at great length how USCIS processed petitions as a result of my personal experience with the DACA delays, it seems fitting I use benefit of that research to correct misinformation where it is posted. Such misinformation was not only posted here but was actually repeated several times. I happened to see it and politely and thoroughly corrected it. Or does my being "complete" somehow make the research and modeling I did less relevant to the exact issue upon which they focused?

I should add that it seems the only people who have trouble getting over something are those who (for motivations that are engimatic to me and contra to a vast trove of statistical and anecdotal evidence) insist that the massive initial processing of DACA petitions did not negatively affect the processing of I-129F petitions at the CSC. It's such a weird position to be so invested in--the gallant defender of the USCIS's short-term logistical capabilities and political independence. But guess what? Weirdness does not save it from being the wrong position.

Nonresponsive and dismissive post removed, as were several quoting. Acceptable "reply" portion (above) returned to thread, with last line edited out.

TBoneTX

for VJ Moderation

Edited September 30, 2013 by TBoneTX

[I & B 273]

I appreciated your stats and thought they were helpful and well analysed. I believe it did help many frustrated members understanding what the trend was.

I do not appreciate some peoples blame game and the anger projecting at dreamers or Haitians. It is the system that is to blame, not groups

of people.

Just wanted to clarify my previous comments.

Totally understandable. I'm all for having people investigate and understand these issues better on every level, which I think necessarily leads to the conclusion that no class beneficiaries themselves are to blame for another's woes with the USCIS. Not only are such views gauche, but they are also analytically wanting. To the extent any particular group becomes favored (for non-immediate humanitarian reasons, anyhow) I think the only thing to do is look carefully at the political process that they used to effectuate their advantageous position and then work to use those same channels on behalf of broader reforms and accountability at the USCIS.

Edited September 30, 2013 by I & B

[Rebecca Jo 1,962]

Totally understandable. I'm all for having people investigate and understand these issues better on every level, which I think necessarily leads to the conclusion that no class beneficiaries themselves are to blame for another's woes with the USCIS. Not only are such views gauche, but they are also analytically wanting. To the extent any particular group becomes favored (for non-immediate humanitarian reasons, anyhow) I think the only thing to do is look carefully at the political process that they used to effectuate their advantageous position and then work to use those same channels on behalf of broader reforms and accountability at the USCIS.

You are overestimating the importance of the amount of time you spend on this issue. Both before the case was approved and now.

[I & B 273]

You are overestimating the importance of the amount of time you spend on this issue. Both before the case was approved and now.

I disagree. I think most people around here greatly underestimate the impact they could have on immigration policies and procedures because they are too frustrated from their inability to win their own individual battle with the USCIS. The USCIS suffers from systemic accountability and oversight problems, but it's not like those shortcomings make it a unique institution in our modern regulatory state. The major problem is the USCIS end-users have much more difficulty organizing an lobbying on their on own behalf. But the internet should be able to change that (through forums like this, for example). To think people with valid complaints and suggestions cannot have an influence on the US government is far too cynical. But, you're right, for the average K-1 Joe to articulate a reasonable suggestion, he probably does need to invest a good deal of time into studying the USCIS's organization, resources, practices, statutory scheme, and oversight. Most going through the USCIS have several months to digest that all, though. Why let all that useful information simply flitter away into the ether just because your petition is complete?

[Rebecca Jo 1,962]

I disagree. I think most people around here greatly underestimate the impact they could have on immigration policies and procedures because they are too frustrated from their inability to win their own individual battle with the USCIS. The USCIS suffers from systemic accountability and oversight problems, but it's not like those shortcomings make it a unique institution in our modern regulatory state. The major problem is the USCIS end-users have much more difficulty organizing an lobbying on their on own behalf. But the internet should be able to change that (through forums like this, for example). To think people with valid complaints and suggestions cannot have an influence on the US government is far too cynical. But, you're right, for the average K-1 Joe to articulate a reasonable suggestion, he probably does need to invest a good deal of time into studying the USCIS's organization, resources, practices, statutory scheme, and oversight. Most going through the USCIS have several months to digest that all, though. Why let all that useful information simply flitter away into the ether just because your petition is complete?

Because you are talking about a one-off situation.

And because once your case IS complete, it's really time to move on. Your own case did not go "over" by any stretch of the imagination. Not by any real definiation of "systemic accountability" issues or "oversight problems". You should talk to a congressional aide if you want validity of that. They tend to fight for people whose cases have been hung up in the system for years - not weeks.

We had an issue with our timeline once. I don't still write about it over and over and over again around here. Ours was a problem that other people also had - and it has since been cured by the Service. So there's no point in banging on about it continually. Your useful information was good for you and others in your situation. The situation is now over. It's not likely to raise its head in a similar fashion again. Watch this stuff for a few years and you'll see what I mean.

Immigration is a mess. It's an emotional drag. You want a normal life with your spouse? Then once your case is done, stop hanging around immigration forums all the time. You'll be a lot healthier and happier. Come back occasionally and do your bit for the good of the cause. But otherwise - don't make too much of what you "achieved". In the long run it's pretty irrelevant.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

I just appreciate your use of OUTRAGE!

Where is the minus button? I am outraged at outrage!

[NikLR 13,227]

Control the things you can control; ignore the rest.

Your life will be more at peace.

I completely agree.

This system is mostly out of our control. People would find it a lot easier to just understand that facet than trying to control something they can't.