Is there any way to stop unhealthy VJ-mob scapegoating?

[cdneh 3,112]

Human nature. Somebody must be responsible for my misfortune. Other than me of course. There's such a culture of instant gratification anymore, they want what they want when they want it, not unlike a group of 2 year olds.

I used to try and reason with people with that mindset, but you can't really tell a dill pickle nothing. It matters not that they have no facts, no premise, no proof, someone is darned well going to wear the blame for them having to wait. They don't care that in many cases they are comparing apples with oranges, they don't want to understand the differences in the visa types or the benefits of those, they don't want to know that centers speed up and slow down alternately. What they do have, in excess, is too much darned free time to search the net and find anything that feeds the conspiracy they invent. See! I was right! That's not fair!

It isn't right. Not by a long shot. Is there a way to stop it? I am doubtful. Short of VJ mods locking those sort of attack threads and not allowing that kind of carry on at all, people will be lemmings.

It's a pity people can't think before they post, and go off on some half baked rant against a group of people they don't know thing one about.

The process is long, it's convoluted, it's expensive and time consuming. It is not transparent, your congressmen and senators cannot help you. It isn't for the faint of heart, and all you can do is wait. Try to use your time while waiting in some productive manner.

[I & B 273]

I personally think that the chain of command is to blame. Every time there is any change the chain of command dictates what needs to move first. In Haiti, natural calamity calamity was claiming US derivatives and so has been every other time. Now, in DACA, children who were being brought into the country were in desperate need to be saved from deportation due to no fault of their own. Do you want to blame them? I don't. I think my needs can wait a couple of months more if that means that someone else can be helped who needed it more than me. For me it is a couple of months while it could be a lifetime for the other. Check out mundonarco.com to see what can happen to some people. Be thankful and grateful for what we have and what the couple of months' wait has maybe helped someone else with. Be grateful to GOD and be patient. You cannot change your future but you can always be content that your wait has helped someone else in their time of need. Pray for everyone and be happy in their good also. They may be the lucky ones butt you helped them in their success. i hope this can settle you down a bit. Good luck all and my GOD be with us.

The problem with DACA was not that DHS implemented a program of deferrals for those who had immigrated illegally while children, but that DHS implemented it in such a way as to have a substantial negative impact on those who had filed for an I-129F and whose petitions were being processed by the CSC. I crunched the data, ran regressions, etc. What was happening was no secret. If you know how to do statistical analysis, the numbers published by the USCIS told the tale. You can still find those same numbers sitting in the posts in my signature if you have any doubt.

I don't blame the children who illegally immigrated for the problems with DACA's implementation, but I could not ignore that the implementation of DACA greatly disrupted life for me and my fiancee. There were hundreds of others on this site that experienced the same thing--and the numbers indicate there were thousands more still nationwide. So why should we have sat back (and been happy?) to let a regulatory agency benefit a certain class to the detriment of ourselves?

Back to political economy 101--the USCIS has scarce resources and will allocate them according to political pressure and its statutory scheme, subject to congressional oversight. Political pressure brought about DACA. What's wrong with pointing out the cost of DACA and trying to use congressional oversight as a check for its horrible implementation?

And, by the way, most of those DACA petitions, contrary to your assertions, were not being used as life lines for those actually in removal proceedings; they were being used to allow out-of-status adults to work legally. They were thus no more time sensitive than I-129F petitions. Again, it's all about the political economy of DHS, and nothing more.

To be clear, this does not mean anyone should be disparaging those who immigrated here illegal as children. In fact, I support the aims of the DACA program. It's the implementation that was the problem. And so it kills me that so many try to make it black and white, as if you either have to shut up and enjoy it when a poorly implemented regulatory directive negatively impacts you or else you are some sort of bigot who hates immigrants. It's not that simple and never has been.

One last thing--and those who were really paying attention during the DACA implementation debacle know this--but those of us who wrote to our congresspeople and USCIS to seek recourse back got very positive responses. In fact, right before USCIS turned back to batch processing the I-129Fs at the CSC at the beginning of this summer, members had heard directly from representatives of those representatives' interventions with the agency. I know for certain that at least three congressional offices reached out to me about the analysis I had done on the issue. Now, we can never prove that those representatives had an impact--it's anecdotal--but I'm sure they at least didn't hurt the cause. And if the efforts bought be so much as a week or even a day closer to approval, then it was worth it.

[Darnell 8,478]

It seems every year another group of frustrated new filers does some "secret research" and finds some group to hate en masse.

A couple years ago, everyone was mad at the Haitians. Haitian TPS because of the earthquake was ruining everything and making everyone's case slow! Damn their death and pestilence! Outrage!

Then some time later it was DACA! Everyone hated on DACA and blamed that for making their files slow! Damn illegals! Outrage!

Now I have seen everyone is hating on spouses of LPRs. F2A is going too fast and needs to be slower! Damn those foreigners! Outrage!

There is a hive mind of thing going on, and without any proof, these groups, and I am sure others before these, get chosen to be the object of hate.

It seems like a horrible mob mentality based on rumor and "secret analysis" of USCIS's website. I know it is hard to wait, and that the difficulty makes people vulnerable and liable to believe whatever they hear, but it doesn't seem right, to me.

Is there anything to say that would stop this or is it going to happen no matter what? Any thoughts?

Any group that gets 'special queue jumping' at USCIS will be scrutinized (sp?) here at VJ. I don't see that going away, at all. New Group? Same scrutiny.

[Sukie 1,459]

It seems every year another group of frustrated new filers does some "secret research" and finds some group to hate en masse.

Is there anything to say that would stop this or is it going to happen no matter what? Any thoughts?

I think the key word is "frustrated". As others have said, this is a highly emotional experience, and for people who are separated from the ones they love, it really hurts to think "someone else" is getting better treatment.

But....sometimes when people reply on VJ, they come across with the sensitivity of a chainsaw. There are many people on VJ who have "been there, done that", and they do know more than newbies do. Some replies are helpful, and others are so condescending so as to make the original poster seem like a stupid dweeb.

We are a community - and we are made up of a diverse group of people - language, culture, age, and education.

Perhaps we need a forum called "Letting Off Steam" where we are allowed to vent without anyone else passing immediate judgement!

Conspiracy theories are counterproductive, and dangerous. There are millions of people trying to get to the United States. Each of us has a unique story, even though we are filling out the same forms.

VJ is a place for emotions - but hopefully being kind, gentle, and helpful will keep us all sane.

If you have a question, check the forums first to see if that question has already been answered.

If you choose to post a reply to someone's question, or even someone's rant, be nice.

If you are frustrated, then say so, but don't continually whine. It won't get you anything any faster.

My favorite posts are all the congratulations that people choose to post when someone finally crosses the finish line!

Sukie

[altonbebe 48]

Control the things you can control; ignore the rest.

Your life will be more at peace.

[Girl from Celebes 588]

I am happy either way. Faster or slower. I've been in relationship with my fiance for more than 5 years. Waiting a little bit longer for the whole process is nothing. In fact, I am busy with work and my own online business and do not have time to worry why the whole process seems like take forever. Time is slower when you think of it. That's how brain works - Just watched on National Geographic channel a few days ago-.

Edited September 29, 2013 by Girl from Celebes

[fantonledzepp 159]

Dunno what you are on about Haitian TPS, whats TPS, whats DACA anyway.

You will get much response if people cant understand what you are talking about.

Do you suggest forming a group to moan about the moaners

Have you tried looking up the terminology? Everything doesn't have to be spoon fed to you, try using google.

I don't remember being frustrated at all. But then again, I did make 9 trips to Ecuador during our courtship. Never blamed anybody for anything.

Edited September 29, 2013 by fantonledzepp

[Harpa Timsah 13,258]

This is a tough journey and if blaming someone else for it makes it seem easier then why not let it be. Not like it's going to change anything

Because I don't think that hating a certain group is a good way to make your problems better. I think it is harmful.

There is no proof that the policies I mentioned resulted in a slowdown of other petitions, yet people latch on to those things so strongly. Timelines speed up and slow down all the time. People don't understand all the service centers, how petitions are sent around. They don't realize other things like yearly H1B petitions are being adjudicated, usually at the same time because they max out on those in a day or so. I certainly don't know how all of USCIS works, but I know that I don't know.

You can see it here in this thread that someone is still mad about DACA.

I agree that the wait is too long, but the wait is not because someone else ruined it for you. That's what bothers me.

Edit: Nice post, Sukie. To respond to one of your points, the fact is, I want to tell people that someone is getting better treatment than them. But someone is getting worse treatment than them too. Some timelines will be faster, some will be slower. I understand jealousy for fast timelines, I do. But not hate and conspiracies.

Edited September 29, 2013 by Harpa Timsah

[Darnell 8,478]

Apologies, Harpa - I'm not giving up my hating on DACA folk or DACA paperwork. Sure, it was a human or four, at USCIS, that decided to shift processing on I-130 stand-alone-petitions because of DACA, and I hate that gang of USCIS employees, even more.

[I & B 273]

Because I don't think that hating a certain group is a good way to make your problems better. I think it is harmful.

There is no proof that the policies I mentioned resulted in a slowdown of other petitions, yet people latch on to those things so strongly. Timelines speed up and slow down all the time. People don't understand all the service centers, how petitions are sent around. They don't realize other things like yearly H1B petitions are being adjudicated, usually at the same time because they max out on those in a day or so. I certainly don't know how all of USCIS works, but I know that I don't know.

You can see it here in this thread that someone is still mad about DACA.

I agree that the wait is too long, but the wait is not because someone else ruined it for you. That's what bothers me.

Edit: Nice post, Sukie. To respond to one of your points, the fact is, I want to tell people that someone is getting better treatment than them. But someone is getting worse treatment than them too. Some timelines will be faster, some will be slower. I understand jealousy for fast timelines, I do. But not hate and conspiracies.

You are very casually trivializing and dismissing other people's problems while at the same time castigating them for having the temerity to try to understand and improve the system that brought about those problems. You say there is no proof that DACA caused a delay in I-129F processing at the CSC. Is there also no proof of man-made greenhouse gases contributing to global warming? The USCIS's own data showed a statistically significant correlation between the massive influx of DACA applications (and their speedy completion rate) and the historically abnormal decline in I-129F processing. I ran the data back over two years for every type of petition filed at the CSC. There was 99% certainty of the relationship between the DACA implementation and the I-129F slowdown when all filing types were considered, as were seasonal trends, etc. That's actually higher than the confidence IPCC ascribes to the relationship between man made greenhouses gases and atmospheric warming trends. I suppose you have done your own analysis and have some other theory as to what caused the delay?

And, again, it's not about hating the group that benefits from the poor administration of the immigration system. It's not about hating anybody. You are using this strawman so you can sit comfortably on your high horse and thumb your nose, even though you obviously never studied the issue. It's about doing what you can do to contribute to the bettering of a system we all must use. Obviously one or two cranks will not get the system bent to their whims, but a group of people who carefully identify and analyze a systemic problem owe it to both themselves and future petitioners to bring attention to that problem.

Edited September 29, 2013 by I & B

[Ebunoluwa 6,136]

Harpa, I agree, I see the same over the top hate. It is one thing to discuss it but another to spew hate.

I am all for correct analysis of a system but I am not for angry assumptions and speculation fueled by scapegoating.

I think it is the tone that comes with delivering the message that gets me, the chip on the shoulder thing.

It is the feeding frenzy. No one said not to post opinions and bring it to our attention, but to do it with such an attitude is not good.

I have been in the system for over 3 years and I do not begrudge Haiti, DACA or anyone else.

People whining after 6 months need a fresh perspective and perhaps go to the gym to work out their frustrations.

And ...oh...I&B, I am not sitting on a high horse nor a straw bale and do not thump my nose at anyone by the way.

Sit in AP for 16 month, then get denied and start over and then see what's up but these "I am not approved after 4 long months "

complainers are ridiculous.

[Mrs Tams 5]

I agree with Sukie as well. I'm more of a reader than a poster since someone else usually posts what I would have posted on any particular topic. What I've noticed though is that a quite a number of people going through the journey do not UNDERSTAND the process, and as someone posted earlier, the differences between the visas.

I like an analogy that was posted a few weeks ago. The journey is like going to a supermarket and everyone arriving at the check-out at the same time. However, the number of items in your cart, the length of the line, and the efficiency of the cashier affect how quickly you leave. Well, it was something like that. If the poster reads this, forgive me if I didn't get it JUST right...LOL. ~~~

[I & B 273]

Harpa, I agree, I see the same over the top hate. It is one thing to discuss it but another to spew hate.

I am all for correct analysis of a system but I am not for angry assumptions and speculation fueled by scapegoating.

I think it is the tone that comes with delivering the message that gets me, the chip on the shoulder thing.

It is the feeding frenzy. No one said not to post opinions and bring it to our attention, but to do it with such an attitude is not good.

I have been in the system for over 3 years and I do not begrudge Haiti, DACA or anyone else.

People whining after 6 months need a fresh perspective and perhaps go to the gym to work out their frustrations.

And ...oh...I&B, I am not sitting on a high horse nor a straw bale and do not thump my nose at anyone by the way.

Sit in AP for 16 month, then get denied and start over and then see what's up but these "I am not approved after 4 long months "

complainers are ridiculous.

You're right to not begrudge those who benefit from the USCIS due to a systemic process, even if that systemic process ultimately redounds to your detriment. And you are right to separate out discussion from vitriolic attacks. I thus don't see you as trivializing the issues or thumbing your nose at anybody.

My issue with the OP and with the subsequent comments is that they seem eager to conflate those who studied and understood the problems with the implementation of DACA with those who have antipathy for those who benefited from DACA. The groups are not mutually exclusive by any means, but nor are they one and the same.

Moreover, just because a sub-group of the people who were affected by DACA's poor implementation vented their frustrations towards those who benefited from DACA, it does not somehow change the fact that DACA did affect the larger group. I understand many on this board have waited excessive times for a variety of reasons beyond their control. That stinks. And everyone of those people will turn around and tell you that the system is broken and a mess. But what I cannot understand is when those same people then resign themselves and everyone else in the system to just having to deal with the mess, a behavior which guarantees the mess will be sitting there for the next person who petitions.

No one person is likely to change the way the USCIS operates. That's a given. But this is a community, not a single person. If petitioners cannot come here to discuss issues, organize responses, and share notes, then where can they go? I think it's a very good thing that people use this board to try share knowledge and insight, and I think it's even better when they then turn around and, based on that collective knowledge and insight, inform their elected representatives about the systemic problems they and others have encountered.

Lastly, I really cannot understand how your long wait time made you less empathetic towards people who were waiting, even if their wait times were less than yours. The wait times in processing create real hardship for those experiencing them, be they 4 months or 14 months. It's even worse when the USCIS knows (or should reasonably know based on their own data) that there will be an extension in wait times and fails to disclose or discuss that fact, leaving all the petitioners in the dark and unable to plan for their lives. And that's exactly what happened with the DACA implementation debacle. Not only did the USCIS's political priorities cause a major delay for I-129F filers, but the agency made it much worse (at least for me and several others I know) by trying to keep mum about the whole thing, which in turn prevented thousands of people from properly planning their affairs. That's nothing to be dismissive of.

Edited September 29, 2013 by I & B

[Darnell 8,478]

geez - there were 2 groups affected by DACA -

1] K-1 visa chasers at CSC and

2] all I-130 stand-alone petitioners

The stuff going down for the I-130 crowd was abysmal, in many places.

[I & B 273]

geez - there were 2 groups affected by DACA -

1] K-1 visa chasers at CSC and

2] all I-130 stand-alone petitioners

The stuff going down for the I-130 crowd was abysmal, in many places.

The reason I only mention the I-129F petitions at CSC is because those are the filings I studied very closely and proved (I think conclusively to anyone with an open mind and and the ability to understand a regression) shared a statistically significant negative correlation with the DACA petitions even after correcting for all other filing types and the USCIS's normal boom and bust processing system (details "those with experience around here" never grapple with when trying to ascribe DACA delays to normal fluctuations). That certainly doesn't mean the I-130s were not affected and I don't mean to imply that or be dismissive of that claim at all. It certainly seems very plausible.

Edited September 29, 2013 by I & B