How the NRA tried to stop a member from conducting gun-control research

[Harsh_77 718]

He still doesn't understand that there are private transfers where these rules do not apply. Gun dealers know this and they know that every person that have been rejected via the background check can walk across the street and buy that gun in a private transaction anyways. Again, it's the same thing as allowing alcohol and tobacco sales to minors in private transactions while requiring liquor and tobacco store owners to check ID. Doesn't sink in with the gun aficionados.

You just proved my point, every industry has a bad apples does not mean the whole industry is bad.

There are shops that sell alcohol and tobacco to underage buyer, does not mean all the shops do it.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

He still doesn't understand that there are private transfers where these rules do not apply. Gun dealers know this and they know that every person that have been rejected via the background check can walk across the street and buy that gun in a private transaction anyways. Again, it's the same thing as allowing alcohol and tobacco sales to minors in private transactions while requiring liquor and tobacco store owners to check ID. Doesn't sink in with the gun aficionados.

Even easier, and it has been documented - just bring a friend or family member with you, and let them make the purchase for you, as that FFL dealer more often than not will recommend to that person that fails the background check.

Retailers are for the background checks, because private party sales cut into their profits. No surprise there.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

You just proved my point, every industry has a bad apples does not mean the whole industry is bad.

It's not about bad apples. Private sellers have no obligation to check any thing but an ID to make sure the buyer is in-state and old enough to acquire a gun. The private seller is not a bad apple. The private seller is breaking no law. The law allows the sale of guns to criminals and nutcases - and you can thank the NRA and their spineless b!tches in Congress and state houses for that.

Even easier, and it has been documented - just bring a friend or family member with you, and let them make the purchase for you, as that FFL dealer more often than not will recommend to that person that fails the background check.

Retailers are for the background checks, because private party sales cut into their profits. No surprise there.

Spot on.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

You just proved my point, every industry has a bad apples does not mean the whole industry is bad.

There are shops that sell alcohol and tobacco to underage buyer, does not mean all the shops do it.

Zoom!

[Harsh_77 718]

You must be smokin' something because felons can get guns. The crowd of felons on VJ likes to brag that they legally own guns. Please get informed. Lives are at stake.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/14/us/felons-finding-it-easy-to-regain-gun-rights.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

Did you read the article, he had got his rights reinstated…… somebody looked into his case and said it was ok for him to own the weapon.

I don’t think the law failed…. again enforcement of the law failed, whoever reinstated his rights could have refused to reinstate as well.

It was just like a convicted felon released on parole, commits another crime and ends up back in the slammer.

[Harsh_77 718]

Even easier, and it has been documented - just bring a friend or family member with you, and let them make the purchase for you, as that FFL dealer more often than not will recommend to that person that fails the background check.

That is another myth that is promoted by anti gun lobby, I can tell you from my personal experience a FFL dealer would not sell a gun that way.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

No ID, no background. Easy gun purchases for all. It's been documented over and over and over. And yet, gun aficionados keep denying that reality.

[Penny Lane 8,159]

That is another myth that is promoted by anti gun lobby, I can tell you from my personal experience a FFL dealer would not sell a gun that way.

So your experience is universal? And everyone who says otherwise is just promoting a myth?

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

That is another myth that is promoted by anti gun lobby, I can tell you from my personal experience a FFL dealer would not sell a gun that way.

Yes, an FFL brings people closer to God.

An expert on crime gun patterns, ATF agent Jay Wachtel says that most guns used in crimes are not stolen out of private gun owners' homes and cars. "Stolen guns account for only about 10% to 15% of guns used in crimes," Wachtel said. Because when they want guns they want them immediately the wait is usually too long for a weapon to be stolen and find its way to a criminal.

In fact, there are a number of sources that allow guns to fall into the wrong hands, with gun thefts at the bottom of the list. Wachtel says one of the most common ways criminals get guns is through straw purchase sales. A straw purchase occurs when someone who may not legally acquire a firearm, or who wants to do so anonymously, has a companion buy it on their behalf. According to a 1994 ATF study on "Sources of Crime Guns in Southern California," many straw purchases are conducted in an openly "suggestive" manner where two people walk into a gun store, one selects a firearm, and then the other uses identification for the purchase and pays for the gun. Or, several underage people walk into a store and an adult with them makes the purchases. Both of these are illegal activities.

The next biggest source of illegal gun transactions where criminals get guns are sales made by legally licensed but corrupt at-home and commercial gun dealers. Several recent reports back up Wachtel's own studies about this, and make the case that illegal activity by those licensed to sell guns, known as Federal Firearms Licensees (FFLs), is a huge source of crime guns and greatly surpasses the sale of guns stolen from John Q. Citizen. Like bank robbers, who are interested in banks, gun traffickers are interested in FFLs because that's where the guns are. This is why FFLs are a large source of illegal guns for traffickers, who ultimately wind up selling the guns on the street.

According to a recent ATF report, there is a significant diversion to the illegal gun market from FFLs. The report states that "of the 120,370 crime guns that were traced to purchases from the FFLs then in business, 27.7 % of these firearms were seized by law enforcement in connection with a crime within two years of the original sale. This rapid `time to crime' of a gun purchased from an FFL is a strong indicator that the initial seller or purchaser may have been engaged in unlawful activity."

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/guns/procon/guns.html

[Harpa Timsah 13,258]

Did you read the article, he had got his rights reinstated…… somebody looked into his case and said it was ok for him to own the weapon.

I don’t think the law failed…. again enforcement of the law failed, whoever reinstated his rights could have refused to reinstate as well.

It was just like a convicted felon released on parole, commits another crime and ends up back in the slammer.

Did you read the article? because it said that these reinstatements are done without even reading the details of the case. I don't think there should be an option to reinstate gun rights for felons at all. The fact that it exists and it not rigorous is appalling.

Still disproves your notion that felons cannot own guns by law. Because they can, and do. Please get informed. Your ignorance is putting lives at risk.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Yes, an FFL brings people closer to God.

Only the truly certifiable would believe that.

[Novembro 1,763]

No ID, no background. Easy gun purchases for all. It's been documented over and over and over. And yet, gun aficionados keep denying that reality.

Please don't confront them with facts. It elevates their blood pressure.

[RGinWA 816]

Are you aware most vendors at the gun shows are gun shop owners, who are lic dealers and lic dealers cannot sell a firearm without background check, failing to check would lead to them losing their lic.

I've bought several weapons at a show and never once was I checked. Maybe I was just lucky.

[Harsh_77 718]

No ID, no background. Easy gun purchases for all. It's been documented over and over and over. And yet, gun aficionados keep denying that reality.

Dude youtube video does not prove anything…. Do you know who shot it under what circumstance etc.?

I am sure you can very easily obtain a video of shopkeeper selling alcohol or tobacco without checking ID does that mean it happens all the time?

As I said very very small percent of pvt owners would ever have a table at the gun shows, someone owning a couple guns is not going to have a table at gun show to sell or trade his gun.

[Harsh_77 718]

Did you read the article? because it said that these reinstatements are done without even reading the details of the case. I don't think there should be an option to reinstate gun rights for felons at all. The fact that it exists and it not rigorous is appalling.

Still disproves your notion that felons cannot own guns by law. Because they can, and do. Please get informed. Your ignorance is putting lives at risk.

Felons cannot own one until someone approves it…. Understand that.

Same way felons also lose right to vote but lot of states have been pushing for letting felons vote too.