Let gun victims speak

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Column: Let gun victims speak

• By Llewellyn King, Hearst Newspapers

The thing about gun lovers is that they are passionate. The thing about those who aren't gun lovers is that they simply want the killing to stop. That makes the argument asymmetrical and gives the advantage to the gun lovers.

After every mass shooting — Columbine, Virginia Tech, Sandy Hook and now the Navy Yard — there is outrage among the articulate middle class, but in time it dies down. This, too, is asymmetrical.

The middle class can't get to the barricades fast enough when it is they who are in trouble; but it is notably absent when their members aren't being shot or, for that matter, imprisoned, frisked or fighting on the front lines.

In Chicago, an average of three homicides occur every night. On Labor Day alone, 12 people were killed and 25 wounded. And Thursday night, 13 people — including a 3-year-old child — were shot at a pick-up basketball game in its Back of the Yards neighborhood. But these are almost all in the ghetto and are black-on-black murders.

As a nation, we lose 31,000 people to gun deaths, accidental suicide and murder every year. By 2015, gun deaths will exceed road fatalities. Most of the gun deaths will be among youngsters on the street.

Cars are getting safer by design, as new technology is incorporated. Guns are getting more dangerous by design, as more civilian versions of military weapons flood the country.

Military weapons are supposed to be lethal. The most obvious example of a modified battlefield weapon is the AR-15; it is the civilian version —semiautomatic instead of fully automatic — of the Army's basic assault rifle, the M16. The AR-15 was used in the Sandy Hook shootings.

Let's take time out for people like me who like guns. I love the feel of them, the inherent majesty of them, the transference of power when you heft one. Yes, they make you feel more manly, more like a card-carrying member of the warrior class.

I learned to shoot when I was quite young, maybe 11. The thrill — the sense of being augmented — stays with you. Guns are seductive. If you are young and male, the seduction is complete; you have a pocketful of machismo.

But if you are young and male and you live on the streets of a city like Chicago or Houston or Los Angeles, entrapped by drugs and gangs, your gun will seem like your best friend until someone else's gun takes your life, or you take another life. In this demimonde, children who are too young to have been in love are not too young to kill or be killed.

Joe Madison, a tireless crusader for many causes, and broadcaster on SiriusXM Satellite Radio, urged after the Dec. 14 Sandy Hook shooting rampage that the bodies — the broken, bloody, shattered bodies — of the schoolchildren, should be shown on television. That way, he argued, the nation would be shocked into action.

No good, in other words, showing the flowers and the teddy bears. Guns don't make flowers and teddy bears; they make gaping, lethal wounds.

It was the pictures of the wounded and the dead that turned the tide of public opinion during the Vietnam War; it was stark pictures that drove home the horror of lynching.

If the day-in, day-out murders were documented, if the agony of the street killings were exposed by a modern-day Charles Dickens, this national veneration for the tools of killing would pass. Guns would begin to go where they belong: under lock and key, or in a well-ordered militia.

Guns don't enhance freedom, they curtail it; they put our cities off limits to many after dark and take life. Death is the absolute confiscation of freedom.

The gun lobby cannot be fought the way Piers Morgan of CNN fights it — with logic. The victims must speak from the grave through photography, video and even fiction.

You don't fight the gun lobby; you undermine it with the silent voices of those it has claimed. Guns kill people.

[Penny Lane 8,159]

What? The victims of gun violence are just happy that the constitution is allowing the American public to arm themselves to the teeth. Stop being so anti-constitution!

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

What? The victims of gun violence are just happy that the constitution is allowing the American public to arm themselves to the teeth. Stop being so anti-constitution!

Yes, I am sure that the thousands of annual gun victims and their families are thrilled to have had the privilege to sacrifice all for their country. Why should that privilege be reserved to the men and women in uniform?

[Penny Lane 8,159]

It's the price of "freedom"! Someone's gotta pay it.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

It's the price of "freedom"! Someone's gotta pay it.

As the columnist rightly points out: Death is the absolute confiscation of freedom.

[Teddy B 17,252]

Let's take time out for people like me who like guns. I love the feel of them, the inherent majesty of them, the transference of power when you heft one. Yes, they make you feel more manly, more like a card-carrying member of the warrior class.

I learned to shoot when I was quite young, maybe 11. The thrill — the sense of being augmented — stays with you. Guns are seductive. If you are young and male, the seduction is complete; you have a pocketful of machismo.

I have fired guns both as a child and as an adult, and I enjoyed it. I've done some target shooting with 22 rifles and some skeet shooting with shotguns. But I never experienced this feeling of machismo or power when doing so. I just don't get it and for that, I'm thankful.

I do think they should show the pictures of the carnage that guns cause, maybe that will help people see what really happens when things get out of control like they are now. They should have public service announcements like they have for cigarettes, showing people with holes in their throats to breathe or big scars on their chests where they've been operated on.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

There will be no new gun control laws. That has been pre-determned. If you do not like it. Tough shitski

Anyone has Freedom of Speech.

[Penny Lane 8,159]

I have fired guns both as a child and as an adult, and I enjoyed it. I've done some target shooting with 22 rifles and some skeet shooting with shotguns. But I never experienced this feeling of machismo or power when doing so. I just don't get it and for that, I'm thankful.

I do think they should show the pictures of the carnage that guns cause, maybe that will help people see what really happens when things get out of control like they are now. They should have public service announcements like they have for cigarettes, showing people with holes in their throats to breathe or big scars on their chests where they've been operated on.

To the truly sick and twisted, "pictures of the carnage that guns cause" would simply be a call for MORE GUNS. Because more guns would stop that carnage from happening, right?

Nah. This is EXACTLY the kind of country that these people want.

They want to take the constitution and use it as an excuse to arm themselves to the teeth. You know, just in case. So what if a few thousand people die every year? As long as they have their guns, they have their freedom, and that's what matters.

No new laws. Everything is working as intended. This is exactly what the 2nd amendment intended, in their mind. A country where guns outnumbered people.

[Teddy B 17,252]

To the truly sick and twisted, "pictures of the carnage that guns cause" would simply be a call for MORE GUNS. Because more guns would stop that carnage from happening, right?

Nah. This is EXACTLY the kind of country that these people want.

They want to take the constitution and use it as an excuse to arm themselves to the teeth. You know, just in case. So what if a few thousand people die every year? As long as they have their guns, they have their freedom, and that's what matters.

No new laws. Everything is working as intended. This is exactly what the 2nd amendment intended, in their mind. A country where guns outnumbered people.

My wife's friends and family think everyone in the US is nuts for allowing this gun culture to continue. I try to explain to them that most people in the US want stricter gun control and new laws, but they can't get them passed. Then they ask how a minority of the populace can over rule the majority.

Edited September 23, 2013 by Teddy B

[Penny Lane 8,159]

My wife's friends and family think everyone in the US is nuts for allowing this gun culture to continue. I try to explain to them that most people in the US want stricter gun control and new laws, but they can't them passed. Then they ask how a minority of the populace can over rule the majority.

Because to an outsider from a country that doesn't have this gun culture, it IS nuts.

But it doesn't matter, because many Americans like to live in a bubble. They don't care what other countries think, they don't care that other countries might have better ways to do things. All that matters to them is that in their bubble, America is #1.

This is a great country that I believe could be greater if people dropped the false sense of superiority and actually worked on its issues rather than hide behind the constitution, their religion, etc.

[Teddy B 17,252]

Because to an outsider from a country that doesn't have this gun culture, it IS nuts.

But it doesn't matter, because many Americans like to live in a bubble. They don't care what other countries think, they don't care that other countries might have better ways to do things. All that matters to them is that in their bubble, America is #1.

This is a great country that I believe could be greater if people dropped the false sense of superiority and actually worked on its issues rather than hide behind the constitution, their religion, etc.

That sums it up very well Penny!

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

The reason we have RIGHTS is to protect our freedoms when it is not a popular thing. Freedoms are not subject to opinion polls or sappy Op-ed columns.

The main thing for the people who want to take awy our rights is that besides it being an individual right, prtected from both Federal and State/local infringement ...is that the people wanting to take away guns usually are watching "Dancing With the Stars" or trying to stay current with Lindsey Lohan. Then there is a massacre that catches their attention for a moment and they run around demanding congress "do something"

But while they were sleeping the NRA has been working tirelessly, day and night, 24/7/365 to be sure the congress is packed with enough "pro-gun" votes to prevent any such thing from happening. The NRA and its members do not care if the congressman are Dems or Repubs. It was four Dems that prevented the last attempt to strip our rights. The very pro-gun Governor of Vermont is a Progressive/Democrat. The makeup of the congress you want to restrict guns was determined last year...after a massacre no politician would mention because there was an election coming

One may say that the NRA has too much power (Mr. Big Dog, won't, he says they are weak which means Obama is even weaker) But our representatives SHOULD protect our rights. They swear to uphold and defend the constitution and the 2nd amendment is an individual right of that constitution.

The NRA has worked for more than 30 years to achieve concealed carry in every state. When the last one held out, it was rammed down their throats with a court order. The NRA does not stop, does not tire, does not give up, will not go away. We WILL have national reciprocity for concealed carry, we WILL have "shall issue" concealed carry in every state. IL did no tchallenge the decision because they were asked NOT to do so by other states that would have been affected by a SCOTUS decision but escaped the 7th Circuit decision. Our opponents are running and hiding. They no longer want gun control issues challenged in federal courts.

When the Gun Control Act of '68 was passed, the NRA was not involved in legislation. In 1977, under threats from President Carter to ban handguns (this was before anti-gun people discovered "assault rifles") WE, NRA members, voted to devote the organization to protecting our rights. It was a very tumultuous convention, but it was decided that it was pretty silly to regulate shooting matches when there may be NO guns. 9 years later the GCA'68 was repealed with the implementation of the Firearms Owners Protection Act of 1986. 1986 also saw the first state, Florida, enact "shall issue" concealed carry. 40 more states have followed suit...one by court order. 5 already had "shall issue" or required no license to carry. 5 states still have discriminatory "may issue" concealed carry.

Letting victims speak. Of course! The NRA has used dozens of victims of mass shootings to get concealed carry legislation passed. Most notably in Texas, when the Luby's Cafeteria massacre took place and a victim testifed that she could have saved her parents from death if she had not been required to leave her pistol in the car. Victims testimony has been very influential in protecting firearms owner's civil rights.

when the Brady Handgun Act of 1993 was enacted it was only done with changes approved by the NRA. While Clinton claimed victory, it was the Brady Handgun Act in name only. It was actually the instant background check system that NRA had promoted for several years. The NRA let Clinton take credit for that

When the "Assault Weapons Non-ban Ban" was enacted in 1994, the NRA was certain to change the makeup of congress. It was the last federal firearms legislation passed by congress, except for PRO gun legislation such as that protecting firearms manufacturers from lawsuits intended to bankrupt them.

NRA has since re-inforced its position and stacked the deck for gun owner's rights. The AWB expired in 2004 and there has been no attempt to ressurrect it by Representatives wanting to commit political suicide.

People wanting to curtail our rights have been asleep for most of this. NRA victories are rarely published in the mainstream media preferred by low-information voters so they do not usually even know about this. This is a good thing. While they will trumpet a Senate Committee passing a gun law (which is a LONG way from being enacted) they become silent when the NRA wins. Great. Just how we like it.

Any further federal legislation restricting our rights to own guns is nothing more than a pipe dream at this point. Talking points for people that do not need to be elected. Or the few in "safe" districts. It will go no where.

The time to debate this is long past. I have no need to inform anyone that the above article is wrong on many points. Who cares? People that want to take our rights away will deny any facts I provide (they prefer being uninformed and I prefer them that way also) and it makes no difference. We have done what we need to win long ago. We got there long before you did because we knew what was coming whenever you finally woke up

While our founding fathers may never have envisioned Assault Rifles...or the internet...or phone wiretapping...they certainly knew what to expect from fascist haters of freedom and protected us from them.

For the haters of freedom and rights of Americans...GFY's! we beat you at this game before it even started

Edited September 23, 2013 by Gary and Alla

[Jacque67 7,328]

Hello!

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Because to an outsider from a country that doesn't have this gun culture, it IS nuts.

But it doesn't matter, because many Americans like to live in a bubble. They don't care what other countries think, they don't care that other countries might have better ways to do things. All that matters to them is that in their bubble, America is #1.

This is a great country that I believe could be greater if people dropped the false sense of superiority and actually worked on its issues rather than hide behind the constitution, their religion, etc.

And to make sure, we allow you or anyone else to leave anytime you want. +1 You understand completely. We set ourselves up to be different than everyone else. If you think that is better...choose to live here. If you think it is not better...choose to leave.

You will not take away our freedoms, which is why we protected them, and you do not have to like them.

[Penny Lane 8,159]

You will not take away our freedoms

Great. Not trying to!

But this is why actual problems will never be able to be discussed in this country. Because you can't be in favor of changing things because you'll be accused of attacking America, taking freedom away, blah blah blah.

Or better yet, the always entertaining "if you don't like it, leave!" response.

Because that's a rational solution to not liking something. Forget acknowledging flaws and attempting to find ways to improve them ... just get up and leave!

Edited September 23, 2013 by Penny Lane