What do you think about Obamacare?

[Danno 1,228]

Well, since the stuff that is supposed to make that happen doesn't begin until after October 1st, we will find out. However, the roll out seems to be a clusterfuck so far, so let's see how long it takes them to get up and running as efficiently anything the US government ever does, and see what happens to premiums over the next five years, or so.

But, I suspect without the cost controls and rationing the insurance companies already have in place, not much will change if the government programs want to remain solvent, without additional subsidies (taxes). Eventually they will get to a single payer system, when they make it impossible for the insurance companies to compete with the government through price controls and more surcharges (taxes).

My impression is that all this does nothing to do with the actual reason health costs, and therefore premiums, keep going up. Unless people are willing to accept mediocre care, and forget about life extending and quality of life procedures past the age of 55, costs will continue to go up.

You are reading this rightly.

THis was the goal all along.

The voters would never go for it until what they had (insurance) was knocked out of the way..... one mandate at a time.

And when it is all over with it will cost more and deliver less.

[VanessaTony 3,567]

I am a bit confused as to why you would not use insurance if you have it? Can you clarify that please?

I don't know how much you know about insurance so please don't think I'm being insulting if I'm saying something obvious.

I'll use us as an example. We have a $400 deductible and a $2500 out of pocket max. We pay a $20 co-pay for doc office visits, $40 for specialist office visits. My husband gets insurance through work. He pays the "premium" before tax out of his income. I don't know the exact amount so I'm just going to say $200 a month (pretty sure its about that, maybe a couple of dollars more).

When my husband FINALLY agreed to get his leg looked at (he had a subdermal growth that, I'll be honest, terrified me because it had grown quite large and we weren't sure what it was) he saw the doctor once to get referred to a specialist. The doc visit was $20, each specialist visit was $40, and then the testing, we didn't know how how much that would cost until we actually got the bill. He needed 2 lots of x-rays (one on his leg and one on his head due to the type of work he does so he could have an MRI). He then had the MRI. He saw the specialist again, then we booked the surgery. Again we didn't know the cost that was going to be involved but we knew, worst case, that it would be $400 (deductible) + $2500 (out of pocket max) = $2900.

When we finally got the bills we had 11 of them:

- doctor who referred to specialist

- Specialist x 2

- X-ray

- X-ray facility for equipment use

- Doc reading x-ray

- MRI

- Surgeon

- Facility use

- Pathology of mass

- Anaesthesiologist

- Equipment (crutches)

Before insurance the total invoiced was $9900. Our insurance meant we got a discount, and then they only paid 80% of the amount due after we paid the deductible. All up we are out of pocket $1100. I set up payment agreements with the providers but there were so many and everyone wants their piece of the pie. It comes to a point where you're paying a decent amount of your pay to cover the medical bills. We're lucky we can do that 'cause tony pays the house bills, I cover the incidentals/unexpected bills. Other people aren't so lucky and if I wasn't employed, and if we had kids, I do wonder if we would have been able to cover that (we know what to expect now).

-- So to answer your question, insurance doesn't mean that you get free healthcare. You still need to think "can i afford the co-pay? Can I afford the deductible right now? Am I sick enough that I *need* to go to the doctor?" Because of that, people are too scared to go to the doctor. They're only just scraping by, or this or that is more important than the sniffles they've had.. that they just put it off.

[Harpa Timsah 13,258]

Putting off going to the doctor is a bad idea, though, and usually results in an increase in doctor's costs. Nothing about you, Vanessa, it looks like there was no difference in your case.

Because people don't have insurance, they don't get normal doctor care. They wait until they are about to die and then they go to the hospital. The hospital is more expensive and because they waited they have more chance of needing more expensive treatment and emergency interventions. If people had insurance or were less afraid to go to the doctor, then healthcare costs would go down. The US populace ends up paying more for someone who has no insurance and waits until they are about to die to go get costly emergency treatment.

I know because of this many insurances are making standard checkups etc totally free (except the co-pay) to encourage people to get seen.

I believe the new system is a lot better than what we had. Not perfect, but something. Of course the insurance companies win because they get to keep their jobs and make the CEOs crazy rich off of the backs of sick people.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Hi guys,

With registration opening in just a couple of days, I wanted to know your opinion about the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act.

Do you think it's going to change things for better or worst?

Look forward to reading your ideas.

1. Thank you God it does not affect Vermont. We have our own single payer medical system

2. Obama will give waivers to anyone that may contribute a lot of money to the re-election of Democrats next year, as he has already done for large corporations, so that they will not have to pay

3. It will destroy the basis of working in the United States as employers use more and more part time employees to avoid paying for it. The new normal will be the 29.5 hour work week, and people looking for TWO part time jobs to replace ther former full time job

4. It will fail before it gets off the ground unless it is repealed first.

5, Insurance companies stand to get even more wealthy...if anyone actually participates. Mandating everyone buy insurance has never resulted in reduced costs for insurance. Auto insurance has increased in price tremendously since states required it for everyone

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

You are reading this rightly.

THis was the goal all along.

The voters would never go for it until what they had (insurance) was knocked out of the way..... one mandate at a time.

And when it is all over with it will cost more and deliver less.

I believe single payer IS the goal of this atrocious conglomeration of dripping pork.

That is what we will have in Vermont. That is what most countries have. That is what was proposed by our Senator Sanders during the process of this nonsense and he was shut down by Democrats. I have no idea why they did not do this to begin with...besides being spineless cowards who could not say "NO" to the insurance companies and instead handed them a gold mine.

My first choice would be to eliminate lawsuits in medical cases except for gross negligence, and allow insurance companies to compete across state lines. I believe that if we saw ads for Health Unsurance on TV the way we see them for homwowners Insurance and auto insurance, rates would drop drastically. No one buys auto insurance to cover oil changes and brake jobs. Some common sense and shopping around would help. But as is pointed out in other posts, people go into helath issues without knowing what costs will be. Like a restaraunt offering menus with no prices. Right, that would make dining out cheaper?

If the government has to be involved then single payer is the way to go. Our congress has no balls (something they should have a doctor consider surgically adding) so they will not stand up to insurance company lobbies. Big surprise.

This plan is intended to fail and then, when it fails the congress can say "Well, the insurance companies had their chance" We will all get screwed but it is only important that congress people keep their jobs.

we took care of that here with our own state single payer plan.

[Dbkrantz 16]

I don't know how much you know about insurance so please don't think I'm being insulting if I'm saying something obvious.

You're not being insulting at all.

As mentioned before, I grew up in France, where the system is the complete opposite of the US. I used to have student private insurance and would pretty much get 100% of the costs paid back except for some medication etc. My insurance was about 50 dollars / year. It was amazing. And now I'm in England so the NHS is a similar system in some ways.

So no I don't know enough about the insurance system in the US. I have been trying to figure it out but it's very complex. I am hoping to get away with getting expat insurance for a couple of weeks until I can figure out a good plan with an HMO.

[Crashed~N2~Me 970]

Obamacare is essentially Republican health care policy. A lot of it came out of the Heritage Foundation back in the early 1990's and Newt Gingrich used Obamacare (it wasn't known under that title then, of course) to derail Clinton's attempt to reform the unfunny joke that is mistaken as health care system in this country. Nothing that comes out of the Heritage Foundation has ever been any good so naturally, Obamacare is pretty crappy. It's maybe going to improve a few things around the edges - I'm sure that many people that have no way to obtain health care coverage today will be thrilled - but it's far from what is needed to finally bring a health care system that's worth the label to this country.

Deflect all you want but every1 knows = O & the Democrats own this sheet.

[Crashed~N2~Me 970]

Well, since the stuff that is supposed to make that happen doesn't begin until after October 1st, we will find out. However, the roll out seems to be a clusterfuck so far, so let's see how long it takes them to get up and running as efficiently anything the US government ever does, and see what happens to premiums over the next five years, or so.

But, I suspect without the cost controls and rationing the insurance companies already have in place, not much will change if the government programs want to remain solvent, without additional subsidies (taxes). Eventually they will get to a single payer system, when they make it impossible for the insurance companies to compete with the government through price controls and more surcharges (taxes).

My impression is that all this does nothing to do with the actual reason health costs, and therefore premiums, keep going up. Unless people are willing to accept mediocre care, and forget about life extending and quality of life procedures past the age of 55, costs will continue to go up.

In other words = No.

but...at least any1 & every1 can get a major medical / catastrophic policy with a few visits to a doc each year for basic medical needs. That's a plus.

Edited September 23, 2013 by Crashed~N2~Me

[Crashed~N2~Me 970]

And when it is all over with it will cost more and deliver less.

Already is.

[Crashed~N2~Me 970]

5, Insurance companies stand to get even more wealthy..

O & the Dems duped We the People. Yet the Ozombies will keep drinking the Kool-Aid.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Deflect all you want but every1 knows = O & the Democrats own this sheet.

Doesn't change the fact that the ACA is practically a copy of the plan that Gingrich pushed in 1993 as an alternative to Hillarycare.

Here's a side-by-side comparison. http://www.kaiserhealthnews.org/Graphics/2010/022310-Bill-Comparison.aspx

You call it "deflection", I call it what it is: fact.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

And when it is all over with it will cost more and deliver less.

Already is.

That's right. Our joke of a healthcare system - can't believe I'm even calling it a healthcare system - already does cost more and deliver less. It has done that for decades.

That has nothing to do with Obamacare.

[Danno 1,228]

That's right. Our joke of a healthcare system - can't believe I'm even calling it a healthcare system - already does cost more and deliver less. It has done that for decades.

That has nothing to do with Obamacare.

You must be doing it wrong, I have always had good care when it was needed.

The Obama-care road will really make you cringe..... and then cry out for more Gov't solutions to fix-it.

(read you like a book Bro)

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

You must be doing it wrong, I have always had good care when it was needed.

The Obama-care road will really make you cringe..... and then cry out for more Gov't solutions to fix-it.

(read you like a book Bro)

A healthcare system is more than you or I have experienced individually. The US system - the most inefficient in the world - delivers adequate care to 80% or so of the population at a per capita cost of more than 200% of what effective healthcare systems cost to deliver adequate care to 100% of their populations. We pay more to get less. And that is true regardless of whether you received adequate care when you needed it.

As for a personal observation, I have most certainly had better healthcare outside of this country.

Edited September 23, 2013 by Mr. Big Dog

[Danno 1,228]

As for a personal observation, I have most certainly had better healthcare outside of this country.

And no doubt it was in a country in which the USA provides their national defense...... freeing up lots of money for them to spend on programs they other wise could not float.