Legalizing U.S. marriage certificate in NYC Egyptian consulate

[endlesscircles 0]

Hello all, I'm hoping someone on here may have some advice or experience (or at least some kind words) about legalizing a U.S. wedding certificate at the Egyptian consulate in New York.

I've seen a few posts on the topic on this forum (which is how I ended up here), but not one that dealt with our specific circumstances. I apologize in advance for the long message, but I'm trying to make sure I include all the important details.

I am American, my fiance is an Egyptian/Canadian national, and we both currently live in Cairo, where we intend to return after our wedding. However, since he is of Christian origin (Maranite, which is basically Catholic), and I do not belong to a religion recognized in Egypt, we have been advised by a lawyer in Cairo to get married outside of Egypt and register the marriage via a consular office abroad. (It appears that it is not currently possible for someone not belonging to a recognized religion to legally marry in Egypt, and it seems we will almost certainly be challenged about our religions if we try to register the foreign marriage certificate in Cairo.)

So, we have arranged a civil marriage in New York in November, after which we planned to get the apostille from local authorities, then register the paperwork at the embassy before returning to Egypt.

However, despite multiple calls to the consulate in New York, and a few shouting matches between my fiance and the marriage officer there, we still have no idea what we need to bring, how long it will take, or even if it will be possible to get the document legalized without paperwork from the church. (We were trying to avoid the religion topic completely, but the consular officer insisted on making it an issue, eventually leading to one of the aforementioned shouting matches.) Today, he told us it was too soon to give us any information, and that we should contact him a week or two before the wedding.

It is difficult to describe how unhelpful this man is being, but I'm sure you've all dealt with the type.

We've looked at the regulations posted on the webpage of the embassy in DC (http://www.egyptembassy.net/service_ma.html), which has details about regulations for Muslims only, and also at Egyptian consulates in other countries, such as in the UK, where they mention health certificates, but not religion (http://www.egyptianconsulate.co.uk/Consular_Services.php). This gives me the impression the requirements are a bit arbitrary and ad hoc.

I'm getting increasingly stressed, because the wedding date is rapidly approaching, but we can't yet fix dates for our travel back to Cairo, or for our reception in Cairo, or a honeymoon, or anything, until we know how long we will need to be in New York to complete the process at the consulate. (We know how long it will take to do all of the U.S. parts -- license, ceremony, certificate, apostille.)

If anyone has legalized their American wedding certificate, particularly at the New York consulate, I would love to hear their experiences, particularly whether a religious declaration was required. Or, if anyone has lived in Egypt without having their foreign marriage certificate legalized, I would also like to know if that has caused major problems when it comes to residency permits, birth certificates etc.

Thanks so much, and again, apologies for the overlong post.

[sparkles_ 456]

Oh man, I feel for you! My fiance is Coptic Christian and I'm nothing officially so we can't marry in his Church either unless I join it. My best advice is trying to go to the consulate in person since it is magical how helpful people can get when you're right in front of them. Have you thought of border hopping and marrying in Canada, legalizing it at the Egyptian consulate in Canada and using that? Perhaps they are nicer and more helpful there.

I believe it would be easier to marry in Egypt honestly. Anyone can have a legal marriage there, no church required. I looked into it before M got a job offer in UAE, and it was not too bad if you guys are OK with just the court marriage because even churches must report to the government to register them. I think Christians just have to also have a single-status letter from their Church to go along with all the other stuff needed which is no different from any other foreigner marrying an Egyptian. The courts are not ####### about Christian men marrying any religion of woman except Muslim.

I know it wasn't much help but I wanted to let you know it isn't that hard to marry in Egypt as some make out for non-Muslims.

[shady28 0]

it is true you can not marry in egypt cause you as a foriegn citizen your marriage must go through the ministry of justice in lazogly squar 6th floor the office of the foriegners marriage but there they ask for proof to show ur religion in order to complete it so in the case of muslim man must marry a muslim like himelf or a christian or a jewish and must get agreement from her embassy that she belong to based on her passport and also she must have egyptian resdency in her passport they obtain it from mogama tahrir in tahrir squar, and for thecase of christian man willing to marry none egyptian no matter what her religion is but he must have the agreement of the church he belong to and the pastor of the chrurch so u said ur fiance is catholic so he must get the agreement from the catholic maranite pastor of the church in order to complete his marriage cause if he cant provide it along with the other papers too bad they wont allow it. my thoughts for you is to follow others country law like usa or canada and make civil marriage there and once u obtain your marriage certificate go to arabic cerftefied translation office so he would translate it to arabic then put his stamp of it then legalize it from a notary public and last thing go to egyptian embassy and they will legalize it and put the egle stamp of the foreign ministry and get the signture of the egyptian embassador on it so you would be able use it in egypt eventually. good luck with it

[shady28 0]

forgot to say something doesnt have to be just egyptian embassy in ny could be canada or uk or any country where the marriage took place in as long as u didnt do it under the egyptian law and as long as he is egyptian citzen the embassy would legalize it to him but after its translated by certfied translator in arabic and legalized by notary public you just did all this things to remove the condition of having agreement of the pastor in egy according to egy law or if he would be able to obtain this agreement from pastor u could easly marry in egypt with out having to travel and marry anywhere else but i know in churches they are strict about things like that and the pastor wont agree so your only chance to do what i just explained to you and hope you best luck

[endlesscircles 0]

Thanks everyone for the very kind responses.

Doing the ceremony in New York is not a hardship, we both have family and friends in the area, and would have ended up doing one reception in New York and one in Cairo regardless of where the marriage was performed, because our families want to celebrate with us (one bright spot in this whole mess is that both sets of parents have been quite supportive). It's not out of the question, however, to nip across the border to Canada if there's good reason to believe the registration process will be simpler there.

What Shady has said (that we would face problems marrying at the Ministry of Justice in Cairo) lines up with what we were told by a lawyer in Cairo who has experience with mixed-religion marriages. I hope for others' sakes that he was being overly pessimistic, but we decided not to take the chance. If we get married abroad, at least we can guarantee that we will actually have a marriage certificate and be able to start our lives together, even if it's a bit of a struggle to get the certificate formally recognized by the Egyptian government. I already have a residence permit through my work here in Cairo, so that is not an immediate problem.

My fiance is working on getting his approval papers from the church, just in case we end up needing them for the consulate in New York. It's a bit of a hassle but not a problem, as long as the church does not require that I convert in order to permit the marriage. We shall see.

What we really are hoping is to do the process Shady describes--taking the U.S. certificate to the consulate and getting the Egyptian stamp on it. But despite pretty strenuous efforts, we still have no idea how to do that. Do we need to make an appointment? What documentation do we need to provide? How long will it take? Again, if anyone has experience with the process, I would greatly appreciate hearing any details they can recall.

And I think you're right, Becca, that going in person may be the only way to overcome the aggressively unhelpful attitude of consular staff. If we aren't able to get solid answers beforehand, I think Plan B is to get married, and then assemble every document we can think of and every dignified elderly relative who can be persuaded to come along, and invade the consulate.

This whole process makes me feel truly bad for people who, unlike us, don't have supportive families, financial resources and foreign passports, and are blocked from marrying the person they love.

[sparkles_ 456]

Make sure you take an elderly female relative...for some reason Egyptians respect the old haggas to the point of borderline fear. Probably because granny would waste no time shaming them as needed in public. I did forget about needing approval from the Church, which is different from the single status letter. That all comes down to how helpful the priest is and if your fiance/fiance's family and him are on good terms versus 'I've seen him around' terms. Registration would be the same in Canada but maybe the staff are not so ignorant and more willing to assist you. I'd ring them and just explain and see.

I wish you the best of luck with this, and hopefully some others may chime in as well.

[shady28 0]

Thanks everyone for the very kind responses.

Doing the ceremony in New York is not a hardship, we both have family and friends in the area, and would have ended up doing one reception in New York and one in Cairo regardless of where the marriage was performed, because our families want to celebrate with us (one bright spot in this whole mess is that both sets of parents have been quite supportive). It's not out of the question, however, to nip across the border to Canada if there's good reason to believe the registration process will be simpler there.

What Shady has said (that we would face problems marrying at the Ministry of Justice in Cairo) lines up with what we were told by a lawyer in Cairo who has experience with mixed-religion marriages. I hope for others' sakes that he was being overly pessimistic, but we decided not to take the chance. If we get married abroad, at least we can guarantee that we will actually have a marriage certificate and be able to start our lives together, even if it's a bit of a struggle to get the certificate formally recognized by the Egyptian government. I already have a residence permit through my work here in Cairo, so that is not an immediate problem.

My fiance is working on getting his approval papers from the church, just in case we end up needing them for the consulate in New York. It's a bit of a hassle but not a problem, as long as the church does not require that I convert in order to permit the marriage. We shall see.

What we really are hoping is to do the process Shady describes--taking the U.S. certificate to the consulate and getting the Egyptian stamp on it. But despite pretty strenuous efforts, we still have no idea how to do that. Do we need to make an appointment? What documentation do we need to provide? How long will it take? Again, if anyone has experience with the process, I would greatly appreciate hearing any details they can recall.

And I think you're right, Becca, that going in person may be the only way to overcome the aggressively unhelpful attitude of consular staff. If we aren't able to get solid answers beforehand, I think Plan B is to get married, and then assemble every document we can think of and every dignified elderly relative who can be persuaded to come along, and invade the consulate.

This whole process makes me feel truly bad for people who, unlike us, don't have supportive families, financial resources and foreign passports, and are blocked from marrying the person they love.

[shady28 0]

that is good that ur fiance can get the approval from his church he belong to if so then that would solve all the problems and u can easily marry in egypt if ur willing to do it in egypt but i think the churches in egypt r strict with this issue when it comes for marrying out of there religion and they may ask for ur convert but as far as i know its not an issue in churches in the west usa or canada especially the catholic church they approve it either ways it would be good if he could obtain approval from church but in case he cant so civil marriage in the usa would be the way and after u get ur marriage certificate from there all u need to do is just find a certefied arabic translation office to translate the certificate from english to arabic and put there stamp on it as certified translator in arabic then go to notary publib office and legalise it and last thing go to the egyptian embassy in ny at the time when it open of course dont know what there time u can call or check there website to know as long as ur fiance have egyptian passport or id he should be able to go with no need for appointment then do the last thing legalise it from the embassy and put the foriegn affaire eagle stamp on it and embassy stamp and embassador signture on it then u can use this legalised certificate in egypt after that but i am not really sure if the embassy would allow to legalise it or not but i assume they would cause themarriage happened out side egypt in the country where the embassy located so it should not be a problem after u pay the fee of the legalisation and stamps. hope that would help you and good luck

[endlesscircles 0]

Okay, this is just too good not to share: It turns out my fiance was baptized in…wait for it…Saudi Arabia.

For reasons that are totally unfathomable to me, his parents (who otherwise appear to be reasonably sane people) decided it would be a fabulous idea to have him baptized at a secret underground church in Saudi Arabia while on a brief visit there. And now, the priest in Cairo won't give him the necessary paperwork without also getting approval from the church in Saudi Arabia, which, naturally, nobody knows how to reach.

What fun! And what, I wonder, were his parents planning to do if their son actually did want to marry in the church at some point?

(I realize this almost sounds like some kind of insane scam to hide a previous marriage, but I know and trust all parties involved, and he does, in fact have a Baptismal certificate issued in KSA.)

In any case, looks like finding a completely secular workaround just got more important.

[endlesscircles 0]

Oh, and to make things even better, our nemesis at the New York consulate affects a faux Gulf accent, which my fiance tells me is usually a sign that he's extremely conservative, and therefore likely to be outraged by the illegal baptism in Saudi Arabia even if we do manage to get the paperwork together.

[sparkles_ 456]

Wow, underground church, eh? I bet his mom and dad just thought it would never be an issue, that is how these really weird things always go. At this point, I would get married in a civil ceremony in NYC and do just like you said with taking any/all you can imagine required to start the hoop-jumping process. However....

I wouldn't hand that baptism certificate to anyone at the consulate and leave it overnight EVER. It would be horrible if it got 'misplaced' by someone like you mentioned, who saw it as a huge insult. It sounds like it could be almost impossible to replace.