Culture VS Islam

[Jenn! 918]

Why does a woman wear hijab then if it is not for modesty?

[amal 4]

No, Noor didn't tell me these things. These are only some of my opinions on it that I've gatherd for myself. I could have stated the religious reasons but I chose to state the outside reasons. Honestly, My husband prefers me in hijab. Every time I put one on..He about cries . He thinks it makes me more beautiful. I'm not claiming that other men may not find it more beautiful as well. I just feel that there are other things to worry about than putting on make up and doing myself up all fancy just for myself to feel beautiful. That is just my personal viewpoint for myself and nobody else. (some women feel more beautiful on the inside when they wear hijab because they aren't so worried about their outward appearance). ABSOLUTELY a woman should wear it (if she wants to) because God said to... theres no doubt about that in my mind. In my previous post, I wanted to point out JUST A COUPLE reasons God said that women should wear it. Those ARE some of the reasons (of course they are not quoted..they are from my own understanding so please do not misunderstand me for quoting anything) I also don't disagree with the woman who does not wear it. I DON'T wear it YET for reasons I don't feel comfortable discussing openly in the forum. I will discuss it one-on-one if anyone feels they need to know why. I think the woman has the right to choose wether she wears hijab or not. It is her body, her head, her faith, her ideas, her etc katha katha.

[Bosco 1]

There are plenty of men that think a woman wearing hijab is very attractive too.

And there are hijab and niqab fetish groups

[mybackpages 0]

There are plenty of men that think a woman wearing hijab is very attractive too.

And there are hijab and niqab fetish groups

really?

[Bosco 1]

There are plenty of men that think a woman wearing hijab is very attractive too.

And there are hijab and niqab fetish groups

really?

Yep http://experts.about.com/e/v/ve/veil_fetishism.htm and transsexual niqabis too. There was one pretending to be a woman that VP had posted about that was going around 360 trying to get women to unveil, I guess on the pretense on wanting to learn to cover.

[cbd2cai 0]

There are plenty of men that think a woman wearing hijab is very attractive too.

And there are hijab and niqab fetish groups

really?

Yep http://experts.about.com/e/v/ve/veil_fetishism.htm and transsexual niqabis too. There was one pretending to be a woman that VP had posted about that was going around 360 trying to get women to unveil, I guess on the pretense on wanting to learn to cover.

Yes, I was checking that one out . . .not sure I found the right one but I did find that I was "linked" about the 3rd degree to one . . . I found that username had lots of hijabi friends!!

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Muslims, men and women, are called upon to be modest in all things, but God hasn't said a word about wearing hijab. The term "hijab" is never used to refer to clothing or a manner of dress in the Quran. But, if that's what you want to do, that's fine. It can't hurt.

Edited December 9, 2006 by szsz

[sweetnsalty 0]

Wow, what a topic! And what intriguing posts.

I've personally never written in any of the more religious threads on VJ, so here goes nothing.

Regarding the original issue of culture vs religion (Islam in this case) multiple examples can be found in my ethnic origins, Bangladesh. However, I've been fortunate enough to be born and raised in the West (I've never set foot in Bangladesh, sadly) with the first few years of my life in the midst of my "religious" family to gradually grow independent in the outside world. The devotion and loyalty to religion was cemented in the beginning years which allowed me to view the world through a wonderful yet utterly confusing looking-glass. Early on, I attended classes led my Bengali "mullas" who were able to strike children who neglected to recite memorized lines correctly. I went on to attend weekend arabic school led by devoted teachers from the greater arab community.

You can imagine the confusion of a child, who is taught to devote herself to the teachings of her religion is one way, be taught that the complete opposite is true.

In the Bangladeshi run school, I was forced into believing the spirituality and importance of being a good muslima was found on the mere surface. The ability to spit out the foreign, and quite scary sounding syllables one after another, gave me superiority over others who couldn't do it from memory.

In Arabic school, I was taught that being of something other than arab descent was not the best of backgrounds. However, aside from the cultural animosity, I was taught that the meaning and the context in which each verse was sent down was in fact of more importance.

In the Bangla culture vs religion conflict, I found the following through observation and testimony of others. (Side note - The message regarding Islam was heavily Persian and sometimes Yemeni influenced, when introduced in Bangladesh) Bangladesh's culture is truly hindi-derived. Many of the practices performed under the banner of Islam closely parallel Hindu customs and tradition. This is found, in the need:

for the young to kneel and bow before the elders whilst touching their feet.

to seek the touch of a mulla to erase past sins or for blessings

to read the quran repeatedly, seeming to sound as though the reader understand the meaning, etc...

In the Arabic culture vs religion conflict, I found the following:

There are definite lines between right and wrong, especially when it comes to the sects and subsects

The troublesome waters regarding educating us girls and how we should attempt to stay inferior to the men

The misconception regarding the fact that being of Arabic descent makes one superior to a fellow nonarab muslim, etc...

As a disclaimer, I must say that using the word Arab is too general. I grew up in a Yemeni community, went to schools in a Palestinian, Lebanese, Iraqi community, was taught in a charter school by an Egyptian teacher. Trust me when I say that I understand how diverse the word Arab truly is!

My past has made me into the open objective person I am. It helped me understand in the most profound way, the richness of Islam. The fact that it can be integrated on all platforms, bypassing the race, ethnicity, religion barrier. Throughout the years, both of the (extremely) generic cultures have evolved. Bangladesh is trying to educate itself, through my generation and surprisingly even the ones who used to be set in their ways. Their recent advances attribute to it (e.g. Dr. Mohammed Yunus winning the Noble Peace Prize this past year). The Arab community has taken strides through education of its younger generation. In other news, much of the Arab community is beginning to lose many of its young to the western ways. The same is true of the Bengali community.

You have to keep in mind that the communities I talk of, are based here in the states. More specifically, here in Michigan, where Dearborn is known internationally as having a great Muslim population. We may want to discuss or ponder about how region specificness can also affect the image or understanding of religion.

I did plan on covering the judgement topic, but I think this post is a painful read on its own. I commend whosoever has managed to read through it all, with their mind still, fully intact! lol

[Sofiyya 1,687]

There are definite lines between right and wrong, especially when it comes to the sects and subsects

The troublesome waters regarding educating us girls and how we should attempt to stay inferior to the men

The misconception regarding the fact that being of Arabic descent makes one superior to a fellow nonarab muslim, etc...

I'm Arab, female and born Muslim. I can relate to all three of these. Thank you!

[mybackpages 0]

Wow, what a topic! And what intriguing posts.

I've personally never written in any of the more religious threads on VJ, so here goes nothing.

Thank for you adding this to the discussion!

[peezey 0]

In Arabic school, I was taught that being of something other than arab descent was not the best of backgrounds. However, aside from the cultural animosity, I was taught that the meaning and the context in which each verse was sent down was in fact of more importance.

You have to keep in mind that the communities I talk of, are based here in the states. More specifically, here in Michigan, where Dearborn is known internationally as having a great Muslim population. We may want to discuss or ponder about how region specificness can also affect the image or understanding of religion.

Thank you for posting. I live in California and of course these days people from the Dearborn community are called upon as Islamic "experts" when someone needs a soundbite for the nightly news, and then there's the opposite, when a charity is raided or some other b.s. However, I realize this is not the real community and am very curious about it. Now I'm more curious because it seems even within the community there are struggles to be recognized as a "real" Muslim when you are not arab. I'm not judging, just guessing from your post. And I am not one to assume all muslims and/or all arabs should get along because of some commonality, it just adds to my curiosity about the community.

I guess I'm going to go do some googling, but how did this community start?

There was an NPR report 2 weeks ago that profiled 3 Dearborn muslimas and their choice to wear hijab. It was quite interesting. All were born here, and so have a similar POV that you describe yet all made different choices and have quite different ideas of what hijab means.

[sweetnsalty 0]

The cultural clash is a rare occurrence in the more religious sectors of Michigan. I was raised in Detroit, but I did attend middle school in Dearborn. I am currently attending the University of Michigan - Dearborn as well. In the outskirts of Dearborn and Detroit (places like Hamtramck) where the population is more diverse, the cultural clashes continue to thrive. This is true in the adolescents carrying hatred in their hearts for reasons other than religion. Its all about "my turf" vs "your turf".

This is mere speculation, but I attribute the founding of the community to the job market and immigration rather than religion per se. That is the precise reason for the steady stream of Bangladeshi immigrant workers moving from New York to Michigan. The cost of living in New York is extremely high, whereas in Michigan, what with big 4 and our coined "motor"-city, the cost of living and finding a job is much more affordable.

The children of these immigrants formed their roots and it is these roots that drew upon the roots left behind to increase the Arab population of the community. As we speak, the Bangladeshi community is following suit. We are making our mark. My father and his generation have various nonprofit organizations that are recruiting the new immigrants along with the old, to train them in technical fields. The general community is growing, and as a result, a lot of people are looking into other aspects of their life. The children of these progressive community members are living a secure life, they in turn are searching for answers. Some of these continually look towards religion and have been successful in creating a stronghold.

Thus, I think it is the incentive of a somewhat secure life that allowed for such a community to develop. That isn't to say it could have turned out different.

(Also, it was my pleasure to post... I hate spelling and grammatical errors, hence rarely post... what with the inability to edit later on lol)

Another culture vs religion concept in Bangladesh: A woman in unable to call her husband by his name.... you use the word "ere" or "apni" which is a respectable way of saying "hey you". Before you ask, my fiance and I are progressive Muslims (a bit liberal, not in the "anything goes" sense) and we refer to each other with whatever the situation warrants.

[sweetnsalty 0]

A quick joke based on the last clash I mentioned:

A woman in Bangladesh went in for her interview for her K3 visa. When she went home, she called her husband, Mr. Chand, (living in America) to say that she failed. He was exasperated and asked her why, and furthermore why she sounded happy. They had gone over all of his information multiple times in preparation for her interview. She replied, "When the Officer asked me what my husband's name was, I replied 'Mr. Shurjo'. How silly of him to ask! He thought he was going to trick me into saying your name!"

Note: Chand = Moon, Shurgo = Sun

[sarah and hicham 3]

No, Noor didn't tell me these things. These are only some of my opinions on it that I've gatherd for myself. I could have stated the religious reasons but I chose to state the outside reasons. Honestly, My husband prefers me in hijab. Every time I put one on..He about cries . He thinks it makes me more beautiful. I'm not claiming that other men may not find it more beautiful as well. I just feel that there are other things to worry about than putting on make up and doing myself up all fancy just for myself to feel beautiful. That is just my personal viewpoint for myself and nobody else. (some women feel more beautiful on the inside when they wear hijab because they aren't so worried about their outward appearance). ABSOLUTELY a woman should wear it (if she wants to) because God said to... theres no doubt about that in my mind. In my previous post, I wanted to point out JUST A COUPLE reasons God said that women should wear it. Those ARE some of the reasons (of course they are not quoted..they are from my own understanding so please do not misunderstand me for quoting anything) I also don't disagree with the woman who does not wear it. I DON'T wear it YET for reasons I don't feel comfortable discussing openly in the forum. I will discuss it one-on-one if anyone feels they need to know why. I think the woman has the right to choose wether she wears hijab or not. It is her body, her head, her faith, her ideas, her etc katha katha.

These sentences DO make it seem like your husband has quite a large influence on you wearing hijab even if you say it's not for him.

[deeshla 0]

First, I want to say thanks for keeping this thread civil. I have really learned a lot from all of your opinions.

Sarah- I know I am mgoing to open a can of worms, but thinking more about your question, I think hijab itself is an example of where relion and culture get confused.

To me there is no question that Islam talks abotu modesty, but why should I wear Arab-style hijab to look modest? (see this is where the can of worms is opened and someone who does dress this way will take offense to what I have just said abotu me and my opinion). Why is covering my hair a requirement for modesty? I completely understand why many women wear the scarf and say more power to them, but I think their interpretation is only that. The Prophet told the women to draw their clothing across their bodies not go out an dbuy new kinds of outfits. Maybe I am looking at it in a simplistic way, a prejudicial way- but Islam is meant to transcend all cultures not become tied up in the local practices.

I'm not sure if you are talking to me, but I'll still answer. I totally agree. Not only with what you've mentioned here, but my issue with hijab (chador, naqib, burqa) is, of course, that it is something for women only to be covered from head to toe. In Islam, men are to be modest as well, but their faces are not covered, hair isn't completely covered, and I am especially irked when I go to Target and see a woman in full hijab, in all black, swathed in 20 yards of fabric, her mouth covered and her husband walking beside her in jeans & a polo. I have no idea how these choices were made in their household, but it never fails that I have to hold my tongue and not walk over and interview them, because I am seriously curious about it. And it's not just a women's freedom thing to me. I also consider men to be humans with brains, so I find it very demeaning to men to assert that women must be covered in this way, or even just their hair, to not intrigue men. But then someone will argue, well, I cover so only my husband can see my feminine bits....but hair? Again, it's saying that hair is so sexy it cannot be revealed to others. Again, why is a woman's hair different than a man's in a religion that obliges both sexes to be modest?

This answer is for me. I am not speaking on the way anybody else believes on this matter...just myself. ok, now that I have cleared the path...I'll begin.

For myself, I think it is great to cover the hair via hijab and I'll tell you why. We spend so much time trying to fix our hair to look just right so we can feel beautiful ... and for what? So other men can look at us and think we're beautiful? .. For me, that is wrong. I don't want any man to see me and think about me in that way other than my husband. As far as the other "allowed" men .. they are family and are not going to see me in a sexual way so that is not an issue. Hijab is a way of protecting a womans right to just be herself without having to look a certain way or maintain the current style. She can just be herself and spend her time thinking about other things rather than her appearance. NOW... about men having to cover... I believe (again, just me and not saying anybody else feels the same way) men look at each part of a woman in a sexual way .. from hair to shoulders to hips to toes. Women see men in a sexy way as well but not with as much intensity as men see women. (there are always exceptions to each rule...so yeah there are women who see a bicep of a man and about pass out from lust) .... anyway.... men look at things like hair , body type, etc to base their decision on wether they think the woman is attractive or not. If the woman wears hijab, doesn't the man have to get to know the woman on the inside rather than the outside? I think the answer to that is yes and I like the idea of them getting to know me for me and not for my beauty. (again, just my own opinion)

This sounds *verbatim* like what Moroccan men told me all the time about hijab (not all men, just the few that wanted to convince me to wear it, derr!). Was this your opinion before your marriage as well?

I think this is a very narrow way to look at relations between men and women, too Animal Kingdom for me. Women don't always fix their hair for men's benefit -- we do it for ourselves, our self-confidence, our style, to be professional, etc...

A man that is looking at my toes sexually is a couple notches down the IQ totem pole, IMO.