Culture VS Islam

[Henia 11]

Gotcha Charles... donnow mine seemed fine. I will keep that in mind.

[amal 4]

First, I want to say thanks for keeping this thread civil. I have really learned a lot from all of your opinions.

Sarah- I know I am mgoing to open a can of worms, but thinking more about your question, I think hijab itself is an example of where relion and culture get confused.

To me there is no question that Islam talks abotu modesty, but why should I wear Arab-style hijab to look modest? (see this is where the can of worms is opened and someone who does dress this way will take offense to what I have just said abotu me and my opinion). Why is covering my hair a requirement for modesty? I completely understand why many women wear the scarf and say more power to them, but I think their interpretation is only that. The Prophet told the women to draw their clothing across their bodies not go out an dbuy new kinds of outfits. Maybe I am looking at it in a simplistic way, a prejudicial way- but Islam is meant to transcend all cultures not become tied up in the local practices.

I'm not sure if you are talking to me, but I'll still answer. I totally agree. Not only with what you've mentioned here, but my issue with hijab (chador, naqib, burqa) is, of course, that it is something for women only to be covered from head to toe. In Islam, men are to be modest as well, but their faces are not covered, hair isn't completely covered, and I am especially irked when I go to Target and see a woman in full hijab, in all black, swathed in 20 yards of fabric, her mouth covered and her husband walking beside her in jeans & a polo. I have no idea how these choices were made in their household, but it never fails that I have to hold my tongue and not walk over and interview them, because I am seriously curious about it. And it's not just a women's freedom thing to me. I also consider men to be humans with brains, so I find it very demeaning to men to assert that women must be covered in this way, or even just their hair, to not intrigue men. But then someone will argue, well, I cover so only my husband can see my feminine bits....but hair? Again, it's saying that hair is so sexy it cannot be revealed to others. Again, why is a woman's hair different than a man's in a religion that obliges both sexes to be modest?

This answer is for me. I am not speaking on the way anybody else believes on this matter...just myself. ok, now that I have cleared the path...I'll begin.

For myself, I think it is great to cover the hair via hijab and I'll tell you why. We spend so much time trying to fix our hair to look just right so we can feel beautiful ... and for what? So other men can look at us and think we're beautiful? .. For me, that is wrong. I don't want any man to see me and think about me in that way other than my husband. As far as the other "allowed" men .. they are family and are not going to see me in a sexual way so that is not an issue. Hijab is a way of protecting a womans right to just be herself without having to look a certain way or maintain the current style. She can just be herself and spend her time thinking about other things rather than her appearance. NOW... about men having to cover... I believe (again, just me and not saying anybody else feels the same way) men look at each part of a woman in a sexual way .. from hair to shoulders to hips to toes. Women see men in a sexy way as well but not with as much intensity as men see women. (there are always exceptions to each rule...so yeah there are women who see a bicep of a man and about pass out from lust) .... anyway.... men look at things like hair , body type, etc to base their decision on wether they think the woman is attractive or not. If the woman wears hijab, doesn't the man have to get to know the woman on the inside rather than the outside? I think the answer to that is yes and I like the idea of them getting to know me for me and not for my beauty. (again, just my own opinion)

[amal 4]

oh, and i forgot to say..yes I've read the Qura'an

[sarah and hicham 3]

I usually blow dry my hair since I started my job because I feel strange getting semi dressed up for work and going in with wet hair. I don't dry it or style it so that other men think it's fabulous, I do it because I don't want to dress up and go to work in a professional environment where I often see clients looking like a scatterbrain.

[Karen_L 1]

Insha'allah, I have done a service to Jenn, Peezy, Karen and Sarah with my responses to their questions regarding my posts.

You have We went to the movies tonight, which is why I wasn't here earlier.

[Ban Hammer 13,340]

Insha'allah, I have done a service to Jenn, Peezy, Karen and Sarah with my responses to their questions regarding my posts.

You have We went to the movies tonight, which is why I wasn't here earlier.

well, what was the movie and how was it?

[Karen_L 1]

Insha'allah, I have done a service to Jenn, Peezy, Karen and Sarah with my responses to their questions regarding my posts.

You have We went to the movies tonight, which is why I wasn't here earlier.

well, what was the movie and how was it?

"The Holiday." It was better than I expected.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

BBC NEWS

Morocco moves to drop headscarf

By Richard Hamilton

BBC News, Rabat

Morocco is making major changes to religious education, in particular regarding whether young girls should wear headscarves.

A picture of a mother and her daughter wearing headscarves is being removed from the latest editions of a text book.

A verse from the Koran that says girls should don veils has already been taken out of the books.

Other Arab countries have made similar changes, worrying that the veil could be used as a symbol of extremism.

Trust

There are few things that have become such obvious and controversial symbols of Islamic identity as the headscarf.

But until now it has not been a controversial issue in Morocco.

This issue isn't really about religion, its about politics

Aboulkacem Samir

On Avenue Mohammed V, the main avenue in central Rabat, older women in particular can be seen wearing traditional long robes with full headscarves.

But younger women wear everything from that to more modern clothes such as trainers, jeans and T-shirts, with nothing on their heads - except perhaps some expensive designer sunglasses.

The variety of clothes and head dresses seems to reflect the fact that Morocco is seen as a liberal country with some pro-western leanings.

But for some more conservative people this latest move is an underhand way of undermining Morocco's Islamic roots.

Abdelkarim El Houichre from the Association of Teachers of Islamic Education does not trust the government's motives:

"I think there is pressure coming from the United States, which believes that teaching about traditional Islam and teaching girls to wear headscarves will somehow encourage extremism and terrorism," he says.

"But I think Islamic education has to be kept within mainstream teaching in our schools because that way we can control it. If we deny it to them in school then they will only go and find out more outside of school and they are more likely to fall into the wrong hands."

Dilemma

In the current climate, the Moroccan government is worried about anything that might fan the flames of Islamic fundamentalism and says it does not want the headscarf to become a rallying cry for extreme organisations.

Education ministry official Aboulkacem Samir says the headscarf has political overtones:

"This issue isn't really about religion, its about politics," he says.

"The headscarf for women is a political symbol, in the same way as the beard is for men. But we in the ministry must be very careful that the books are fair to all Moroccans and do not represent just one political faction."

Across the Arab world the headscarf issue seems to be gathering momentum.

In Tunisia for example, young women who wear veils say they have been harassed by the authorities who are forcing the girls to remove their veils at schools and universities.

The veil is perhaps a microcosm of a much broader dilemma - should Arab countries in north Africa turn towards secular democracies or to more traditional Islamist countries for their guidance and inspiration?

Morocco is treading a fine line between these competing influences and the headscarf might just be something that trips it up.

Story from BBC NEWS:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/africa/5413808.stm

Published: 2006/10/06 15:03:57 GMT

© BBC MMVI

[peezey 0]

Insha'allah, I have done a service to Jenn, Peezy, Karen and Sarah with my responses to their questions regarding my posts.

Thanks, it's what I'd hoped you would post. I do get a little worried when the word "judge" is used in any form, so I wanted to be clear the qur'anic meaning of the obligation.

[peezey 0]

First, I want to say thanks for keeping this thread civil. I have really learned a lot from all of your opinions.

Sarah- I know I am mgoing to open a can of worms, but thinking more about your question, I think hijab itself is an example of where relion and culture get confused.

To me there is no question that Islam talks abotu modesty, but why should I wear Arab-style hijab to look modest? (see this is where the can of worms is opened and someone who does dress this way will take offense to what I have just said abotu me and my opinion). Why is covering my hair a requirement for modesty? I completely understand why many women wear the scarf and say more power to them, but I think their interpretation is only that. The Prophet told the women to draw their clothing across their bodies not go out an dbuy new kinds of outfits. Maybe I am looking at it in a simplistic way, a prejudicial way- but Islam is meant to transcend all cultures not become tied up in the local practices.

I'm not sure if you are talking to me, but I'll still answer. I totally agree. Not only with what you've mentioned here, but my issue with hijab (chador, naqib, burqa) is, of course, that it is something for women only to be covered from head to toe. In Islam, men are to be modest as well, but their faces are not covered, hair isn't completely covered, and I am especially irked when I go to Target and see a woman in full hijab, in all black, swathed in 20 yards of fabric, her mouth covered and her husband walking beside her in jeans & a polo. I have no idea how these choices were made in their household, but it never fails that I have to hold my tongue and not walk over and interview them, because I am seriously curious about it. And it's not just a women's freedom thing to me. I also consider men to be humans with brains, so I find it very demeaning to men to assert that women must be covered in this way, or even just their hair, to not intrigue men. But then someone will argue, well, I cover so only my husband can see my feminine bits....but hair? Again, it's saying that hair is so sexy it cannot be revealed to others. Again, why is a woman's hair different than a man's in a religion that obliges both sexes to be modest?

This answer is for me. I am not speaking on the way anybody else believes on this matter...just myself. ok, now that I have cleared the path...I'll begin.

For myself, I think it is great to cover the hair via hijab and I'll tell you why. We spend so much time trying to fix our hair to look just right so we can feel beautiful ... and for what? So other men can look at us and think we're beautiful? .. For me, that is wrong. I don't want any man to see me and think about me in that way other than my husband. As far as the other "allowed" men .. they are family and are not going to see me in a sexual way so that is not an issue. Hijab is a way of protecting a womans right to just be herself without having to look a certain way or maintain the current style. She can just be herself and spend her time thinking about other things rather than her appearance. NOW... about men having to cover... I believe (again, just me and not saying anybody else feels the same way) men look at each part of a woman in a sexual way .. from hair to shoulders to hips to toes. Women see men in a sexy way as well but not with as much intensity as men see women. (there are always exceptions to each rule...so yeah there are women who see a bicep of a man and about pass out from lust) .... anyway.... men look at things like hair , body type, etc to base their decision on wether they think the woman is attractive or not. If the woman wears hijab, doesn't the man have to get to know the woman on the inside rather than the outside? I think the answer to that is yes and I like the idea of them getting to know me for me and not for my beauty. (again, just my own opinion)

This is where you lose me, because I absolutely do not think men are animals that survive on leering and drooling. If we continue to perpetuate the stereotype that men only think about **one thing** with their below-the-belt non-brain, then we can't get too far.

Edited December 9, 2006 by peezey

[jordanianprincess 0]

First, I want to say thanks for keeping this thread civil. I have really learned a lot from all of your opinions.

Sarah- I know I am mgoing to open a can of worms, but thinking more about your question, I think hijab itself is an example of where relion and culture get confused.

To me there is no question that Islam talks abotu modesty, but why should I wear Arab-style hijab to look modest? (see this is where the can of worms is opened and someone who does dress this way will take offense to what I have just said abotu me and my opinion). Why is covering my hair a requirement for modesty? I completely understand why many women wear the scarf and say more power to them, but I think their interpretation is only that. The Prophet told the women to draw their clothing across their bodies not go out an dbuy new kinds of outfits. Maybe I am looking at it in a simplistic way, a prejudicial way- but Islam is meant to transcend all cultures not become tied up in the local practices.

I'm not sure if you are talking to me, but I'll still answer. I totally agree. Not only with what you've mentioned here, but my issue with hijab (chador, naqib, burqa) is, of course, that it is something for women only to be covered from head to toe. In Islam, men are to be modest as well, but their faces are not covered, hair isn't completely covered, and I am especially irked when I go to Target and see a woman in full hijab, in all black, swathed in 20 yards of fabric, her mouth covered and her husband walking beside her in jeans & a polo. I have no idea how these choices were made in their household, but it never fails that I have to hold my tongue and not walk over and interview them, because I am seriously curious about it. And it's not just a women's freedom thing to me. I also consider men to be humans with brains, so I find it very demeaning to men to assert that women must be covered in this way, or even just their hair, to not intrigue men. But then someone will argue, well, I cover so only my husband can see my feminine bits....but hair? Again, it's saying that hair is so sexy it cannot be revealed to others. Again, why is a woman's hair different than a man's in a religion that obliges both sexes to be modest?

This answer is for me. I am not speaking on the way anybody else believes on this matter...just myself. ok, now that I have cleared the path...I'll begin.

For myself, I think it is great to cover the hair via hijab and I'll tell you why. We spend so much time trying to fix our hair to look just right so we can feel beautiful ... and for what? So other men can look at us and think we're beautiful? .. For me, that is wrong. I don't want any man to see me and think about me in that way other than my husband. As far as the other "allowed" men .. they are family and are not going to see me in a sexual way so that is not an issue. Hijab is a way of protecting a womans right to just be herself without having to look a certain way or maintain the current style. She can just be herself and spend her time thinking about other things rather than her appearance. NOW... about men having to cover... I believe (again, just me and not saying anybody else feels the same way) men look at each part of a woman in a sexual way .. from hair to shoulders to hips to toes. Women see men in a sexy way as well but not with as much intensity as men see women. (there are always exceptions to each rule...so yeah there are women who see a bicep of a man and about pass out from lust) .... anyway.... men look at things like hair , body type, etc to base their decision on wether they think the woman is attractive or not. If the woman wears hijab, doesn't the man have to get to know the woman on the inside rather than the outside? I think the answer to that is yes and I like the idea of them getting to know me for me and not for my beauty. (again, just my own opinion)

I know this is your opinion which you are entitled too but I don't think those are the proper reasons for wearing hijab, IMO. I am not trying to get you to change your mind but I just wanted to share another perspective with you. I am what you call a high maintenence woman, I have to do my make up, hair, dress to the nines everyday. I do this for me, not for anyone else. I do this to make myself feel good. I don't do it to look beautiful, I do it so I can feel beautiful. There are many men that may look at me, fully made up and then look at another woman who has done nothing and find her more attractive. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

Now I am responding to this for actually for a few reasons one of which I will share with you privatly. The other reasons are this. I don't think blowdrying your hair is going to make men look at you in a sexual way, if a man is attracted to you he will be regardless. I have heard the same opinion you are sharing many times, but by men (usually the husband) that wants his wife to think this way. I am not saying that Noor told you this, but this thinking really concerns me. The way a woman looks really has an impact on how she feels and lives. I think its important for every woman to pamper herself and feel pretty, it really is a good form of therapy.

I know alot of this doesn't apply to me because I will never wear hijab or be muslim, but I do feel that wearing hijab is something you do for God if you choose to do it and not something you do to ward off men. There are plenty of men that think a woman wearing hijab is very attractive too.

[sarah and hicham 3]

First, I want to say thanks for keeping this thread civil. I have really learned a lot from all of your opinions.

Sarah- I know I am mgoing to open a can of worms, but thinking more about your question, I think hijab itself is an example of where relion and culture get confused.

To me there is no question that Islam talks abotu modesty, but why should I wear Arab-style hijab to look modest? (see this is where the can of worms is opened and someone who does dress this way will take offense to what I have just said abotu me and my opinion). Why is covering my hair a requirement for modesty? I completely understand why many women wear the scarf and say more power to them, but I think their interpretation is only that. The Prophet told the women to draw their clothing across their bodies not go out an dbuy new kinds of outfits. Maybe I am looking at it in a simplistic way, a prejudicial way- but Islam is meant to transcend all cultures not become tied up in the local practices.

I'm not sure if you are talking to me, but I'll still answer. I totally agree. Not only with what you've mentioned here, but my issue with hijab (chador, naqib, burqa) is, of course, that it is something for women only to be covered from head to toe. In Islam, men are to be modest as well, but their faces are not covered, hair isn't completely covered, and I am especially irked when I go to Target and see a woman in full hijab, in all black, swathed in 20 yards of fabric, her mouth covered and her husband walking beside her in jeans & a polo. I have no idea how these choices were made in their household, but it never fails that I have to hold my tongue and not walk over and interview them, because I am seriously curious about it. And it's not just a women's freedom thing to me. I also consider men to be humans with brains, so I find it very demeaning to men to assert that women must be covered in this way, or even just their hair, to not intrigue men. But then someone will argue, well, I cover so only my husband can see my feminine bits....but hair? Again, it's saying that hair is so sexy it cannot be revealed to others. Again, why is a woman's hair different than a man's in a religion that obliges both sexes to be modest?

This answer is for me. I am not speaking on the way anybody else believes on this matter...just myself. ok, now that I have cleared the path...I'll begin.

For myself, I think it is great to cover the hair via hijab and I'll tell you why. We spend so much time trying to fix our hair to look just right so we can feel beautiful ... and for what? So other men can look at us and think we're beautiful? .. For me, that is wrong. I don't want any man to see me and think about me in that way other than my husband. As far as the other "allowed" men .. they are family and are not going to see me in a sexual way so that is not an issue. Hijab is a way of protecting a womans right to just be herself without having to look a certain way or maintain the current style. She can just be herself and spend her time thinking about other things rather than her appearance. NOW... about men having to cover... I believe (again, just me and not saying anybody else feels the same way) men look at each part of a woman in a sexual way .. from hair to shoulders to hips to toes. Women see men in a sexy way as well but not with as much intensity as men see women. (there are always exceptions to each rule...so yeah there are women who see a bicep of a man and about pass out from lust) .... anyway.... men look at things like hair , body type, etc to base their decision on wether they think the woman is attractive or not. If the woman wears hijab, doesn't the man have to get to know the woman on the inside rather than the outside? I think the answer to that is yes and I like the idea of them getting to know me for me and not for my beauty. (again, just my own opinion)

I know this is your opinion which you are entitled too but I don't think those are the proper reasons for wearing hijab, IMO. I am not trying to get you to change your mind but I just wanted to share another perspective with you. I am what you call a high maintenence woman, I have to do my make up, hair, dress to the nines everyday. I do this for me, not for anyone else. I do this to make myself feel good. I don't do it to look beautiful, I do it so I can feel beautiful. There are many men that may look at me, fully made up and then look at another woman who has done nothing and find her more attractive. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

Now I am responding to this for actually for a few reasons one of which I will share with you privatly. The other reasons are this. I don't think blowdrying your hair is going to make men look at you in a sexual way, if a man is attracted to you he will be regardless. I have heard the same opinion you are sharing many times, but by men (usually the husband) that wants his wife to think this way. I am not saying that Noor told you this, but this thinking really concerns me. The way a woman looks really has an impact on how she feels and lives. I think its important for every woman to pamper herself and feel pretty, it really is a good form of therapy.

I know alot of this doesn't apply to me because I will never wear hijab or be muslim, but I do feel that wearing hijab is something you do for God if you choose to do it and not something you do to ward off men. There are plenty of men that think a woman wearing hijab is very attractive too.

[Henia 11]

I usually blow dry my hair since I started my job because I feel strange getting semi dressed up for work and going in with wet hair. I don't dry it or style it so that other men think it's fabulous, I do it because I don't want to dress up and go to work in a professional environment where I often see clients looking like a scatterbrain.

Sarah said scatterbrain!!!

[Henia 11]

Insha'allah, I have done a service to Jenn, Peezy, Karen and Sarah with my responses to their questions regarding my posts.

You have We went to the movies tonight, which is why I wasn't here earlier.

Service?

[Henia 11]

[/As far as the other "allowed" men .. they are family and are not going to see me in a sexual way so that is not an issue. quote]I am not sure who told you that, but if a men wants to see you sexual he will... doesnt matter if he is mahram (as you say allowed) or not...

men look at each part of a woman in a sexual way

I think women are just as sexual as men. And I think unless the women covers totally the men can and will always look at the women sexually.

Boy I am glad Algerie is a democratic state!

I am what you call a high maintenence woman, I have to do my make up, hair, dress to the nines everyday. I do this for me, not for anyone else. I do this to make myself feel good. I don't do it to look beautiful, I do it so I can feel beautiful. There are many men that may look at me, fully made up and then look at another woman who has done nothing and find her more attractive. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

JP:You go Girl!

Also I agree with Jp's comment about reasons to wear hijeb.