N-400 - SEPTEMBER 2013 FILERS

[MJC79 1]

Updating for Interview date

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USCIS Dallas/Lewisville, Texas Lockbox

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UserName.........|Eligible|Sent....|ChkCashd|NOA.....|Fprints.|In-line |Int Ltr.|Intview.|Oath....|FieldOffice

Cala Bel.........|06/20/13|08/26/13|--/--/--|09/04/13|10/01/13|09/17/13|--/--/--|02/20/14|02/28/14|Hartford, CT

Tom&Tanya........|11/08/13|08/31/13|09/05/13|09/04/13|09/27/13|10/08/13|10/15/13|11/13/13|12/13/13|West Palm Beach, FL

Mav_1975.........|02/12/13|09/01/13|09/05/13|09/06/13|--/--/--|--/--/--|--/--/--|--/--/--|--/--/--|Houston, TX

Lars-N-Yenia.....|09/30/11|09/04/13|09/10/13|09/05/13|09/19/13|09/23/13|--/--/--|--/--/--|--/--/--|Newark, NJ

girimurthy.......|06/16/11|09/04/13|09/12/13|09/09/13|09/24/13|09/26/13|12/09/13|01/16/14|01/31/14|Hialeah, FL

Elafito..........|01/15/13|09/06/13|09/13/13|09/19/13|10/04/13|10/08/13|12/13/13|01/21/14|04/17/14|Boston, MA

raparap..........|11/14/13|09/07/13|09/16/13|09/20/13|10/07/13|10/09/13|12/21/13|01/25/14|01/25/14|Newark, NJ

Justine+David....|06/19/13|09/09/13|09/19/13|09/17/13|10/29/13|10/31/13|02/24/14|03/24/14|03/24/14|Baltimore, MD

Dpeter736........|--/--/--|09/13/13|09/19/13|09/27/13|10/21/13|--/--/--|--/--/--|--/--/--|--/--/--|Oakland Park, FL

letmein..........|--/--/--|09/13/13|09/18/13|09/23/13|10/11/13|--/--/--|--/--/--|--/--/--|--/--/--|Boston, MA

psiprez..........|09/02/11|09/13/13|09/25/13|09/20/13|10/21/13|10/23/13|01/11/14|02/10/14|02/10/14|Newark, NJ

NatzG............|09/22/10|09/16/13|09/23/13|09/18/13|10/18/13|10/22/13|02/24/14|03/25/14|03/28/14|Baltimore, MD

usagirl12........|09/15/13|09/21/13|09/27/13|09/30/13|10/18/13|11/14/13|11/18/13|12/19/13|02/05/14|Louisville,KY

Read.............|--/--/--|09/23/13|09/30|13|--/--/--|--/--/--|--/--/--|--/--/--|--/--/--|--/--/--|Philadelphia,PA

Sachinky.........|02/20/13|09/23/13|09/26/13|09/25/13|10/16/13|10/18/13|10/24/13|12/03/13|12/20/13|Albuquerque,NM

Futurama.........|--/--/--|09/24/13|09/30/13|09/25/13|10/25/13|10/29/13|12/30/13|02/06/14|04/03/14|Boston, MA

silkafi88........|09/28/13|09/25/13|10/04/13|09/30/13|10/24/13|11/27/13|12/05/13|01/02/14|02/28/14|Louisville,KY

mjc79............|12/17/13|09/25/13|10/02/13|10/07/13|10/28/13|11/18/13|04/07/14|05/07/14|--/--/--|New York City, NY

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USCIS Phoenix, Arizona Lockbox

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UserName.........|Eligible|Sent....|ChkCashd|NOA.....|Fprints.|In-line |Int Ltr.|Intview.|Oath....|FieldOffice

alex and astrid..|01/23/13|09/05/13|09/12/13|09/09/13|10/03/13|10/07/13|11/12/13|12/18/13|01/14/14|Chatsworth, CA

Lasko12..........|--/--/--|09/06/13|09/11/13|09/16/13|10/11/13|10/24/13|10/31/13|12/02/13|01/23/14|San Jose, CA

newlyweds2010....|12/07/13|09/07/13|09/13/13|09/10/13|10/04/13|11/06/13|11/09/13|12/16/13|01/29/14|San Francisco, CA

WindyCity22a.....|--/--/--|09/10/13|09/16/13|09/19/13|09/27/13|10/03/13|10/31/13|12/03/12|12/12/13|Chicago, IL

RoamingTheNet....|12/02/13|09/03/13|09/09/13|09/11/13|09/25/13|11/01/13|12/06/13|01/08/13|02/12/14|Santa Ana, CA

KaashParinda.....|12/06/13|09/23/13|09/28/13|10/03/13|10/24/13|11/06/13|11/11/13|12/11/13|02/07/14|San Jose, CA

OlegAndSveta.....|09/04/13|09/24/13|--/--/--|10/04/13|10/18/13|11/04/13|11/13/13|12/18/13|02/13/14|Chicago, IL

Whtevr...........|11/26/13|09/03/13|--/--/--|09/05/13|09/17/13|10/24/13|10/30/13|12|02/13|04/08|14|Chicago, IL

Carocaro.........|12/14/13|09/27/13|10/03/13|10/11/13|10/25/13|11/14/13|12/18/13|02/18/14|02/22/14|Phoenix, AZ

[Whtevr 0]

Updating for Interview date

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USCIS Dallas/Lewisville, Texas Lockbox

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UserName.........|Eligible|Sent....|ChkCashd|NOA.....|Fprints.|In-line |Int Ltr.|Intview.|Oath....|FieldOffice

Cala Bel.........|06/20/13|08/26/13|--/--/--|09/04/13|10/01/13|09/17/13|--/--/--|02/20/14|02/28/14|Hartford, CT

Tom&Tanya........|11/08/13|08/31/13|09/05/13|09/04/13|09/27/13|10/08/13|10/15/13|11/13/13|12/13/13|West Palm Beach, FL

Mav_1975.........|02/12/13|09/01/13|09/05/13|09/06/13|--/--/--|--/--/--|--/--/--|--/--/--|--/--/--|Houston, TX

Lars-N-Yenia.....|09/30/11|09/04/13|09/10/13|09/05/13|09/19/13|09/23/13|--/--/--|--/--/--|--/--/--|Newark, NJ

girimurthy.......|06/16/11|09/04/13|09/12/13|09/09/13|09/24/13|09/26/13|12/09/13|01/16/14|01/31/14|Hialeah, FL

Elafito..........|01/15/13|09/06/13|09/13/13|09/19/13|10/04/13|10/08/13|12/13/13|01/21/14|04/17/14|Boston, MA

raparap..........|11/14/13|09/07/13|09/16/13|09/20/13|10/07/13|10/09/13|12/21/13|01/25/14|01/25/14|Newark, NJ

Justine+David....|06/19/13|09/09/13|09/19/13|09/17/13|10/29/13|10/31/13|02/24/14|03/24/14|03/24/14|Baltimore, MD

Dpeter736........|--/--/--|09/13/13|09/19/13|09/27/13|10/21/13|--/--/--|--/--/--|--/--/--|--/--/--|Oakland Park, FL

letmein..........|--/--/--|09/13/13|09/18/13|09/23/13|10/11/13|--/--/--|--/--/--|--/--/--|--/--/--|Boston, MA

psiprez..........|09/02/11|09/13/13|09/25/13|09/20/13|10/21/13|10/23/13|01/11/14|02/10/14|02/10/14|Newark, NJ

NatzG............|09/22/10|09/16/13|09/23/13|09/18/13|10/18/13|10/22/13|02/24/14|03/25/14|03/28/14|Baltimore, MD

usagirl12........|09/15/13|09/21/13|09/27/13|09/30/13|10/18/13|11/14/13|11/18/13|12/19/13|02/05/14|Louisville,KY

Read.............|--/--/--|09/23/13|09/30|13|--/--/--|--/--/--|--/--/--|--/--/--|--/--/--|--/--/--|Philadelphia,PA

Sachinky.........|02/20/13|09/23/13|09/26/13|09/25/13|10/16/13|10/18/13|10/24/13|12/03/13|12/20/13|Albuquerque,NM

Futurama.........|--/--/--|09/24/13|09/30/13|09/25/13|10/25/13|10/29/13|12/30/13|02/06/14|04/03/14|Boston, MA

silkafi88........|09/28/13|09/25/13|10/04/13|09/30/13|10/24/13|11/27/13|12/05/13|01/02/14|02/28/14|Louisville,KY

mjc79............|12/17/13|09/25/13|10/02/13|10/07/13|10/28/13|11/18/13|04/07/14|05/07/14|--/--/--|New York City, NY

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USCIS Phoenix, Arizona Lockbox

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UserName.........|Eligible|Sent....|ChkCashd|NOA.....|Fprints.|In-line |Int Ltr.|Intview.|Oath....|FieldOffice

alex and astrid..|01/23/13|09/05/13|09/12/13|09/09/13|10/03/13|10/07/13|11/12/13|12/18/13|01/14/14|Chatsworth, CA

Lasko12..........|--/--/--|09/06/13|09/11/13|09/16/13|10/11/13|10/24/13|10/31/13|12/02/13|01/23/14|San Jose, CA

newlyweds2010....|12/07/13|09/07/13|09/13/13|09/10/13|10/04/13|11/06/13|11/09/13|12/16/13|01/29/14|San Francisco, CA

WindyCity22a.....|--/--/--|09/10/13|09/16/13|09/19/13|09/27/13|10/03/13|10/31/13|12/03/12|12/12/13|Chicago, IL

RoamingTheNet....|12/02/13|09/03/13|09/09/13|09/11/13|09/25/13|11/01/13|12/06/13|01/08/13|02/12/14|Santa Ana, CA

KaashParinda.....|12/06/13|09/23/13|09/28/13|10/03/13|10/24/13|11/06/13|11/11/13|12/11/13|02/07/14|San Jose, CA

OlegAndSveta.....|09/04/13|09/24/13|--/--/--|10/04/13|10/18/13|11/04/13|11/13/13|12/18/13|02/13/14|Chicago, IL

Whtevr...........|11/26/13|09/03/13|--/--/--|09/05/13|09/17/13|10/24/13|10/30/13|12|02/13|04/08|14|Chicago, IL

Carocaro.........|12/14/13|09/27/13|10/03/13|10/11/13|10/25/13|11/14/13|12/18/13|02/18/14|02/22/14|Phoenix, AZ

FINALLY, a citizen of the US!!!!! I am just beyond ecstatic today, cannot believe that we are finally done.

It felt REALLY good to shred all of the immigration paperwork LOL

Good luck to everyone that is still on this journey and thank you to everyone that has helped us on here!

[OlegAndSveta 1]

Congratulations, Whtevr! So happy for you, guys!

FINALLY, a citizen of the US!!!!! I am just beyond ecstatic today, cannot believe that we are finally done.

It felt REALLY good to shred all of the immigration paperwork LOL

Good luck to everyone that is still on this journey and thank you to everyone that has helped us on here!

[BigDaddy28 228]

Congratulations to all the people who became new citizens of this great country. Just a little update on myself:

Since my Naturalization ceremony I have been telling everybody Im a US citizen lol. I updated my social with 10 days No issues at all. Registered for voting same day, No issues at all. And last I applied for my passport on March the 17th, received it today and boy do I look awesome in that picture lol? I look like an American

I want to wish the rest of the applicants good luck for whoever having an interview or oath ceremony. Please remember that the feeling you will have when you are sworn in to be a citizen is awesome. So if you have kids, please take them with you to enjoy it. Thats a one time life event. Make it about you and your family. Good luck. fellow US citizens and fellow future US citizens.

[MJC79 1]

Congratulations to all the people who became new citizens of this great country. Just a little update on myself:

Since my Naturalization ceremony I have been telling everybody Im a US citizen lol. I updated my social with 10 days No issues at all. Registered for voting same day, No issues at all. And last I applied for my passport on March the 17th, received it today and boy do I look awesome in that picture lol? I look like an American

I want to wish the rest of the applicants good luck for whoever having an interview or oath ceremony. Please remember that the feeling you will have when you are sworn in to be a citizen is awesome. So if you have kids, please take them with you to enjoy it. Thats a one time life event. Make it about you and your family. Good luck. fellow US citizens and fellow future US citizens.

hi Silkafi88,

I have my interview coming up in 20 days. I am applying based on 5 year eligibility but I got my 10 year green card through my ex-husband's job. We got divorced last year in February. I got engaged a month before filing my N-400 and i will be getting married 10 days after my interview. I wanted to ask your opinion about disclosing my wedding plans at the interview. I want to volunteer the information especially since my fiance is an American Citizen by birth and I dont have anything to hide. During the interview did your IO give you an opportunity to disclose relevant information?

Any input would be appreciated.

and Congratulations on becoming a citizen!

[BigDaddy28 228]

hi Silkafi88,

I have my interview coming up in 20 days. I am applying based on 5 year eligibility but I got my 10 year green card through my ex-husband's job. We got divorced last year in February. I got engaged a month before filing my N-400 and i will be getting married 10 days after my interview. I wanted to ask your opinion about disclosing my wedding plans at the interview. I want to volunteer the information especially since my fiance is an American Citizen by birth and I dont have anything to hide. During the interview did your IO give you an opportunity to disclose relevant information?

Any input would be appreciated.

and Congratulations on becoming a citizen!

Hello

After the interview tge officer have new a chance to ask any questions I wanted. If I were you I would mention it and take their opinion about it. Personally I don't t think it Will affect your application. But you never know how they take it. Being honest about everything especially in this step is critical. But add you said your fiance is an American by birth. So I don't see any kind of problem. Congratulations on your marriage and his luck in your interview. Keeps us posted about your interview.

[Darth Vader Ku 16]

Hello

After the interview tge officer have new a chance to ask any questions I wanted. If I were you I would mention it and take their opinion about it. Personally I don't t think it Will affect your application. But you never know how they take it. Being honest about everything especially in this step is critical. But add you said your fiance is an American by birth. So I don't see any kind of problem. Congratulations on your marriage and his luck in your interview. Keeps us posted about your interview.

I disagree with this point of view.

To the Original Poster: if you were applying under the three-year statute, I would concede that your expected and upcoming change in marital status would be material information to disclose. As it is, you are applying under the five-year statute, and your new, upcoming marital status (regardless of the nationality of the individual you were marying) is not under consideration for your eligibility.

Not disclosing does not equate to not being truthful. If you have answered every question on your N-400 petition correctly (under the letter and the spirit of each question), and as long as you answer all questions in the same vein at your interview, proactive disclosure of this information is not required.

[BigDaddy28 228]

I disagree with this point of view.

To the Original Poster: if you were applying under the three-year statute, I would concede that your expected and upcoming change in marital status would be material information to disclose. As it is, you are applying under the five-year statute, and your new, upcoming marital status (regardless of the nationality of the individual you were marying) is not under consideration for your eligibility.

Not disclosing does not equate to not being truthful. If you have answered every question on your N-400 petition correctly (under the letter and the spirit of each question), and as long as you answer all questions in the same vein at your interview, proactive disclosure of this information is not required.

I didn't say it will compromise her chance of getting the citizenship but I said its better to inform them to cover your rear and you know that you told them everything and you done your part. I know that based on 5 years marriage doesn't matter however I read once here that somebody had an officer who had problems with the fact that the person got married without disclosing it even when they applied under 5 year rule. So what will it hurt if you tell them to make sure you are safe?

[BigDaddy28 228]

Besides at the oath they ask you if your natural status changed regardless of 5 year rule our 3 year rule

[Darth Vader Ku 16]

I didn't say it will compromise her chance of getting the citizenship but I said its better to inform them to cover your rear and you know that you told them everything and you done your part. I know that based on 5 years marriage doesn't matter however I read once here that somebody had an officer who had problems with the fact that the person got married without disclosing it even when they applied under 5 year rule. So what will it hurt if you tell them to make sure you are safe?

I did not say that you said disclosure would compromise her citizenship petition.

However, over disclosure can sometimes be problematic. Bombarding an Immigration Officer with an overlaod of information could make the officer feel compelled to consider such information in the final adjudication of the petition even when such information is irrelevant If the Original Poster is being interviewed by an Immigration Officer unfamiliar with the subtleties that exist between the different statutes and their respective requirements, then the Original Poster could be asked for further information and/or have her application sent back for additional review thereby adding unnecessary delays to what sounds like a fairly simple case.

This is a decision that the Original Poster must make. A good test for the need for disclosure is that if the Original Poster, in each of the following hypothetical scenarios below, feels that disclosure would be necessary in each case, then she should disclose her upcoming marriage at the time of the interview.

1) Are you planning to begin a new job ten days after the interview?

2) Are you planning to leave your current job ten days ater the interview?

3) Are you planning to travel outside the country ten days after the interview?

4) Are you planning to enroll in an educational programme (adult learning, university, etcetera) ten days after the interview

5) Are you planning to conceive ten days after the interview?

[BigDaddy28 228]

I did not say that you said disclosure would compromise her citizenship petition.

However, over disclosure can sometimes be problematic. Bombarding an Immigration Officer with an overlaod of information could make the officer feel compelled to consider such information in the final adjudication of the petition even when such information is irrelevant If the Original Poster is being interviewed by an Immigration Officer unfamiliar with the subtleties that exist between the different statutes and their respective requirements, then the Original Poster could be asked for further information and/or have her application sent back for additional review thereby adding unnecessary delays to what sounds like a fairly simple case.

This is a decision that the Original Poster must make. A good test for the need for disclosure is that if the Original Poster, in each of the following hypothetical scenarios below, feels that disclosure would be necessary in each case, then she should disclose her upcoming marriage at the time of the interview.

1) Are you planning to begin a new job ten days after the interview?

2) Are you planning to leave your current job ten days ater the interview?

3) Are you planning to travel outside the country ten days after the interview?

4) Are you planning to enroll in an educational programme (adult learning, university, etcetera) ten days after the interview

5) Are you planning to conceive ten days after the interview?

I understand your post however in 10 days everything can happen. You can lose a job, enroll in school, travel outside the country for emergency. Do yes 10 days is enough for a big change in our life. Besides every application had to go through a supervisor if the officer is not familiar with laws or he/she is new.

Anyways my advice to the original poster is disclose it, your changes to get denied because if are near 0%. Besides it Will not delay your citizenship your process, but it Will make you feel that you have done your part.

Darth Vader kung, you know if you don't disclose important information such as change of marital status (before you become a citizen) can be grounds for USCIS to denaturalize you when they discover that? Please be careful don't tell people to shoot their own foot.

[Darth Vader Ku 16]

I understand your post however in 10 days everything can happen. You can lose a job, enroll in school, travel outside the country for emergency. Do yes 10 days is enough for a big change in our life. Besides every application had to go through a supervisor if the officer is not familiar with laws or he/she is new.

Anyways my advice to the original poster is disclose it, your changes to get denied because if are near 0%. Besides it Will not delay your citizenship your process, but it Will make you feel that you have done your part.

Darth Vader kung, you know if you don't disclose important information such as change of marital status (before you become a citizen) can be grounds for USCIS to denaturalize you when they discover that? Please be careful don't tell people to shoot their own foot.

I would never irresponsibly give advice (in-person or anonymously) if I believed, even for a second, that it contained an element of risk to the recipient or to its audience.

I am sure the Original Poster will ultimately make an informed decision; however, you are mixing up issues and confusing the matter. It's really quite simple:

1) You yourself do not sound very sure about the implications of this disclosure. You have said things like "...changes (sic) to get denied...are near 0%..." and "...personally [you] don't think it will affect the application..." which are all indications of speculation on your part. You admit yourself that you are not sure, so, in essence, you are baiting the Original Poster to gamble on your uncertainties. Looks like your advice of people shooting at their feet should be applied to you.

2) Passing the interview is not the same as becoming a US citizen. If the USCIS wishes to obtain additional ad-hoc information from a petitioner beyond that which is required for disclosure in the N-400 and the N-445, then there will be opportunities to do this up till and at the Naturalisation Oath Ceremony (which is actually when one becomes a citizen and not after the interview as you seem to imply).

3) Unless such information is a requirement of an immigration benefit, or is discretionally required by the USCIS, there is no need to disclose it. I know this for a fact; in other words, I am not speculating and that's why I'm giving my opinion with one hundred percent confidence to the Original Poster.

4) Information that does require disclosure at nearly every stage of an N-400 petition under the five-year statute is a change of address (notice that I did not include that as a question in my hypothetical questions in the earlier post). Disclosing an expected change in marital status that has not even happened yet is NOT required as a disclosure and declining to disclose this information it is NOT grounds for de-naturalisation.

5) It's actually Darth Vader Ku, but if calling me Darth Vader Kung feels more comfortable for you, by all means, go ahead.

[BigDaddy28 228]

Darth Vader Ku, I respect the fact that you are not trying to give irresponsible advice. And I don't anticipate to do that either, because I don't want to be the reason of somebody's denial. Please I want to make sure that you understand that I'm not mixing up issues as you claim. So:

1) I gave the percentage because I will be a fool if I gave a 100% chance that it will work. I don't have a law degree in that field so that's why giving always that 1% just in case things happen. Besides even when you have a law degree there will be that 1%. So please don't feel like I was not confident about my answer. I'm a million% confident but when I know that I'm wrong I admit to it and I say Sorry. But not in this case.

2) Not in any of my posts I said that passing the interview makes you a citizen. Since I went through the whole process I know what I'm talking about here and I realize that you have to take the oath to become a citizen. But before that USCIS gives you that questionnaire to fill to make sure you are still eligible. Cases that will make you ineligible: lying to USCIS officer, hiding a major traffic ticket or arrest, hiding your marital status change, change of address...

3)I'll let you believe what you want to believe in this part. I'm not going to respond since I explained it above.

4)In most cases of Naturalization the applicant will have to wait a period of time between the interview and the actual oath. it could be a day it could be 2 months as in my case. So yes a change of marital status is critical in this stage and you have to disclose it whether you are applying under 3 year rule or 5 year rule. FYI in the back of the oath invitation the question asking about marital status change doesn't say "only for applicants under 3 year rule" So yes it includes all the applicants.

5) Sorry if I misspelled your user name wrong as I was typing on my phone and you know that auto correct thing doesn't always work for you own good.

[Darth Vader Ku 16]

Darth Vader Ku, I respect the fact that you are not trying to give irresponsible advice. And I don't anticipate to do that either, because I don't want to be the reason of somebody's denial. Please I want to make sure that you understand that I'm not mixing up issues as you claim. So:

1) I gave the percentage because I will be a fool if I gave a 100% chance that it will work. I don't have a law degree in that field so that's why giving always that 1% just in case things happen. Besides even when you have a law degree there will be that 1%. So please don't feel like I was not confident about my answer. I'm a million% confident but when I know that I'm wrong I admit to it and I say Sorry. But not in this case.

2) Not in any of my posts I said that passing the interview makes you a citizen. Since I went through the whole process I know what I'm talking about here and I realize that you have to take the oath to become a citizen. But before that USCIS gives you that questionnaire to fill to make sure you are still eligible. Cases that will make you ineligible: lying to USCIS officer, hiding a major traffic ticket or arrest, hiding your marital status change, change of address...

3)I'll let you believe what you want to believe in this part. I'm not going to respond since I explained it above.

4)In most cases of Naturalization the applicant will have to wait a period of time between the interview and the actual oath. it could be a day it could be 2 months as in my case. So yes a change of marital status is critical in this stage and you have to disclose it whether you are applying under 3 year rule or 5 year rule. FYI in the back of the oath invitation the question asking about marital status change doesn't say "only for applicants under 3 year rule" So yes it includes all the applicants.

5) Sorry if I misspelled your user name wrong as I was typing on my phone and you know that auto correct thing doesn't always work for you own good.

I have just one question for you, then:

Can you point me definitively to the USCIS requirement (not your personal opinion, please) where it is indicated that a future anticipated event such as a change in marital status must be disclosed by a petitioner to an Immigration Officer at the Naturalisation Interview?

I bet you ANYTHING that you will remain unable to show me this requirement and as long as you are unable to show me this requirement, your lengthy argument is irresponsible, grossly inaccurate and mostly irrelevant to the Original Poster.

[BigDaddy28 228]

I have just one question for you, then:

Can you point me definitively to the USCIS requirement (not your personal opinion, please) where it is indicated that a future anticipated event such as a change in marital status must be disclosed by a petitioner to an Immigration Officer at the Naturalisation Interview?

I bet you ANYTHING that you will remain unable to show me this requirement and as long as you are unable to show me this requirement, your lengthy argument is irresponsible, grossly inaccurate and mostly irrelevant to the Original Poster.

Please read this article that I found for you:

http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/youre-not-naturalized-us-citizen-until-you-take-the-oath.html

http://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/USCIS/Outreach/Upcoming%20National%20Engagements/Upcoming%20National%20Engagement%20Pages/2013%20Events/January%202013/PolicyManualBriefing.pdf

In the second link please refer to page: 12

I guess you are the one who had a "lengthy argument [that was] irresponsible, grossly inaccurate and mostly irrelevant to the Original Poster."