MODERATORS MODERATE TOO MUCH???

[john gibbs 17]

Where in TOS does it say we can't discuss immigration fraud on the board?

[john gibbs 17]

i am glad that is in the tos.

but are trying to expose marriage fraud to prevent it.

not encourage it by telling other how to do it.

[del-2-5-2014 1,339]

Where in TOS does it say we can't discuss immigration fraud on the board?

An astute question. I think a Mod can decipher this "Condone or instruct, either directly or indirectly, others on how to commit fraudulent or illegal immigration activities in any way, shape, manner or method" to justify taking an action.

IMHO, saying my Uncle Bob came in as a tourist and then married my Aunt Jill can be construed as an act of condoning, indirect mind you, an illegal activity. Voila, TB and a Dear Abby email.

[Darnell 8,478]

John - I've read some of your posts that got deleted.

When one spews to another poster here, well, that's just bad.

There's still lots of different ways to get one's point across without the spewing.

Just saying.

[Kathryn41 3,205]

There is also this statement in the Terms of Service - I think it is pretty unequivocal:

IMPORTANT INFORMATION ABOUT FRAUDULENT OR ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION ACTIVITIES

VisaJourney.com does not condone immigration fraud in any way, shape or manner. VisaJourney.com recommends that if any member or user knows directly of someone involved in fraudulent or illegal activity, that they report such activity directly to the Department of Homeland Security, Immigration and Customs Enforcement. You can contact ICE via email at Immigration.Reply@dhs.gov or you can telephone ICE at 1-866-347-2423. All reported threads/posts containing reference to immigration fraud or illegal activities will be removed from this board.

For more information on immigration and how immigration fraud affects all members of the immigration community please see USCIS.GOV.

http://www.visajourney.com/content/terms

[john gibbs 17]

John - I've read some of your posts that got deleted.

When one spews to another poster here, well, that's just bad.

There's still lots of different ways to get one's point across without the spewing.

Just saying.

spew?

In other words tell someone who likely married only to obtain a green card the truth?

I don't see the point in sugar coating.

It's obvious to every one that these posters simply married to obtain a green card and now they want help in getting away with their fraud.

to be frank people like that disgust me and they deserve the treatment they get.

they are liars and con artists and no one has respect for people who fraud others.

the ridiculous part is however the people who get their posts deleted and banned are posters like me.

not the con artists.

because i dared to call a spade a spade.

[Lemonslice 4,792]

spew?

In other words tell someone who likely married only to obtain a green card the truth?

I don't see the point in sugar coating.

It's obvious to every one that these posters simply married to obtain a green card and now they want help in getting away with their fraud.

to be frank people like that disgust me and they deserve the treatment they get.

they are liars and con artists and no one has respect for people who fraud others.

the ridiculous part is however the people who get their posts deleted and banned are posters like me.

not the con artists.

because i dared to call a spade a spade.

On the other side, do you want people calling "victims" stupid because they should have seen it? ... Sometimes, in a situation where there is fraud, it might be part fraud/part stupidity. I think moderators are doing a good job making sure we stay "polite". It's rarely a black and white situation, no matter what your opinion is :/

[Darnell 8,478]

John - back at post #81 - I'll suggest to you - there's another way to get one's point across. Heck, I do it also and don't get flagged. Why? I use different language, different sentence constructs.

Yes, I said 'spew' to you. On purpose. I'll never discount your experience with what happened to you, ever, so bear that in mind, as well.

I'm not going to write 2 examples here, as one of them would get deleted by a mod.

IMO, when one pitches over the red line, writing a personal attack-ish type of post, it just doesn't wash, here.

Edited September 8, 2013 by Darnell

[TBoneTX 45,008]

In addition to what Darnell says, remember that none of us can know the entirety of anyone else's case or case history. Jumping at broad-brush conclusions can therefore be perceived as extreme.

This is also reflected in threads in which someone asks "do I need a lawyer," and posters rush -- as if on cue -- to respond "you do not need a lawyer!" They can't possibly know this for a fact. Even the original poster himself might not know, without a lot of probing or drawing-out of information that usually doesn't happen here. Because we can't know it all, circumspect answers are chiefly the appropriate ones.

Edited September 8, 2013 by TBoneTX

[john gibbs 17]

In addition to what Darnell says, remember that none of us can know the entirety of anyone else's case or case history. Jumping at broad-brush conclusions can therefore be perceived as extreme.

This is also reflected in threads in which someone asks "do I need a lawyer," and posters rush -- as if on cue -- to respond "you do not need a lawyer!" They can't possibly know this for a fact. Even the original poster himself might not know, without a lot of probing or drawing-out of information that usually doesn't happen here. Because we can't know it all, circumspect answers are chiefly the appropriate ones.

when someone says they just got married and got the temporary green card and have already left their spouse within 6 months of getting married, i feel like i have heard enough.

it is pretty obvious to me why they got married and what they are doing

On the other side, do you want people calling "victims" stupid because they should have seen it? ... Sometimes, in a situation where there is fraud, it might be part fraud/part stupidity. I think moderators are doing a good job making sure we stay "polite". It's rarely a black and white situation, no matter what your opinion is :/

so when someone takes advantage of someone and scams them because they are naive, that makes it ok?

since they are naive and not intelligent enough to see though the scam, that makes it ok to take advantage of them.

all i can say to that is wow.

needless to say in my opinon, the problem isnt the naivity or the intelligence of the victims, it's the fact that these scam artists are allowed to operate freely without any repercussions for their actions.

Edited September 8, 2013 by john gibbs

[NikLR 13,227]

when someone says they just got married and got the temporary green card and have already left their spouse within 6 months of getting married, i feel like i have heard enough.

it is pretty obvious to me why they got married and what they are doing

so when someone takes advantage of someone and scams them because they are naive, that makes it ok?

since they are naive and not intelligent enough to see though the scam, that makes it ok to take advantage of them.

needless to say in my opinion, the problem isn't the naivety or the intelligence of the victims, it's the fact that these scam artists are allowed to operate freely without any repercussions for their actions.

What if someone married someone from another country thinking they could bring a subservient spouse over? Essentially I'm saying, what if the USC wants to use that person as a personal servant or slave (despite the title of spouse)? They could very easily project themselves as loving and caring during the long distance phase of the relationship and then switch roles becoming controlling and abusive once the spouse is in the USA. How do you know that isn't happening? Please don't even begin to tell me that in the USA that never happens. What I'm trying to point out is con artists and manipulators happen in both directions. You're assuming that it is always the foreign spouse who is doing the con and it really isn't fair because you have NO idea.

[john gibbs 17]

What if someone married someone from another country thinking they could bring a subservient spouse over? Essentially I'm saying, what if the USC wants to use that person as a personal servant or slave (despite the title of spouse)? They could very easily project themselves as loving and caring during the long distance phase of the relationship and then switch roles becoming controlling and abusive once the spouse is in the USA. How do you know that isn't happening? Please don't even begin to tell me that in the USA that never happens. What I'm trying to point out is con artists and manipulators happen in both directions. You're assuming that it is always the foreign spouse who is doing the con and it really isn't fair because you have NO idea.

you right i am assuming that the usc is the one being scammed.

i've never seen an example of where that isn't the case.

[Vanitas 310]

you right i am assuming that the usc is the one being scammed.

i've never seen an example of where that isn't the case.

Then maybe you need to go and read the Effects of Major Family Changes on Immigration Benefits forum a bit more deeply before you put hands to keys.

[TBoneTX 45,008]

you right i am assuming that the usc is the one being scammed.

i've never seen an example of where that isn't the case.

I definitely know of one (not VJ members). It was not pretty. Thanks for keeping your mind open about it -- very few things in life are 100% one-way.