Police: Young woman killed in gunfight between concealed weapon permit holder, felon

[Teddy B 17,252]

Yeah, I still have yet to understand how more guns in these neighborhoods would bring down crime. If it works in Vermont, surely it will work in Detroit, right?

It will work everywhere. Look how it's worked out in Pakistan, no gun laws there. Heck you can own ballistic missiles in Pakistan if you so desire.

[Karee 4,191]

Yeah, I still have yet to understand how more guns in these neighborhoods would bring down crime. If it works in Vermont, surely it will work in Detroit, right?

It does work in Detroit. Basically armed citizens are protecting themselves since the cops don't show up for hours, if at all. Detroit is a bad example if you're trying to argue for less guns.

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

I feel like the only difference between red necks with guns and "gangsters" with guns is population density. Hard to kill as many people when you typically live in places with a population of less than 5,000 people

Nah, the big difference is circumstances. When you have white folks with guns in the rural areas, it's more fun than it is malevoent. When was the last time you heard of a white kid being shot walking home from the store in a rural area? Out there it's more kids getting killed because someone left a gun out and they got their hands on it. Plus, those areas have a better police presence than an urban area, even if it's a fat dude in a sheriff outfit.

In a mostly urban area, you have drugs and guns, plus a nobody gives a **** about us mentality. Not to mention being poor and a police force that couldn't care less.

http://www.theepochtimes.com/n3/253249-oakland-gang-shooting-in-broad-daylight-captured-on-dashboard-camera-video/

Do you know what the most disturbing fact is in this video? Not the fact this took place in broad daylight. Not the fact these guys just opened fired on a crowded street. Not the fact the cops got there way too late. It's the kid walking 15 feet away from it all, did you see his reaction? He turned around and keep walking like it was nothing. This means he's used to it. That's scary.

Edited August 19, 2013 by Su and Marvin

[Karee 4,191]

Of course you have to worry about the cops themselves.

Two police officers accused in Detroit robbery, assault

From The Detroit News: http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20130729/METRO01/307290052#ixzz2cRr07ZVi

Detroit— A photograph snapped by a citizen and distributed to the media led to the arrest of two police officers who allegedly robbed and assaulted two people last week, Detroit Police Chief James Craig said Monday.

The two men — one a sergeant and 20-year veteran of the Detroit Police Department; the other with the same rank in St. Clair Shores — allegedly wore their badges around their necks and drew their department-issued pistols when they robbed two men at an east side gas station on July 21, according to police. One of the victims was assaulted, Craig said.

Both victims are in their early 20s.

“It wasn’t until a photograph was sent to the media that someone investigating the case recognized him as a Detroit Police employee,” Craig said.

Further investigation revealed the Detroit officer’s alleged partner was a St. Clair Shores sergeant who attended the Police Academy with him before leaving Detroit’s police force after two years, said Inspector Brian Stair, head of Detroit Police Internal Affairs.

Wayne County prosecutors have received a warrant request for the officers. Craig said they’re likely to be charged with robbery and assault in the next few days.

The Detroit sergeant was arrested Saturday while working at the 12th Precinct. His alleged accomplice also was arrested Saturday at his home.

The crime happened around 4:45 p.m. at a Citgo gas station on French Road. The two cops drove to the station together in a private vehicle, approached the victims with their guns drawn and badges hanging from their necks, Craig said.

“It’s alleged they stole money and a cellphone,” Craig said. Stair added that one of the victims was struck with one of the officers’ guns, although his injuries are not thought to be life-threatening.

“The Good Samaritan who took those photographs saw that something wasn’t right,” Craig said.

A spokeswoman for the St. Clair Shores Police Department said the department is aware of the ongoing investigation but provided no further information.

Although there were at least two reported instances of fake cops robbing citizens recently, there’s no evidence linking the two sergeants with any other robberies, Craig said. He added that police are investigating whether the pair may have been involved in other heists.

“It’s no secret we’ve had other incidents involving police impersonators, so we’re taking a close look at that,” the chief said.

Craig pointed out that, because the two officers are not suspected in the other reported robbery involving fake cops, there are others who are impersonating police officers and robbing citizens.

“We should be diligent in making sure when we’re stopped, it’s by police officers,” Craig said.

Craig said “99.9 percent” of Detroit’s officers are honest and hard-working and “when a member of this organization disgraces the badge, we take it personally.”

From The Detroit News: http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20130729/METRO01/307290052#ixzz2cRrFS4P9

Edited August 19, 2013 by Karee

[Penny Lane 8,159]

It does work in Detroit. Basically armed citizens are protecting themselves since the cops don't show up for hours, if at all. Detroit is a bad example if you're trying to argue for less guns.

My point was that what works in rural states and towns won't work the same way in cities like Detroit and Chicago.

Concealed carry will not save the innocent victims that are killed every day in gang related violence in these cities. Drive by's, kids getting shot in the crossfires, etc. More guns will not stop these senseless crimes from happening.

Throwing more guns into neighborhoods knee deep in poverty and gangs isn't going to save many lives. The guns are already THERE.

These cities have so many problems that it's insane to me that people think just arming everyone is going to solve them.

Edited August 19, 2013 by Penny Lane

[Karee 4,191]

My point was that what works in rural states and towns won't work the same way in cities like Detroit and Chicago.

Concealed carry will not save the innocent victims that are killed every day in gang related violence in these cities. Drive by's, kids getting shot in the crossfires, etc. More guns will not stop these senseless crimes from happening.

Throwing more guns into neighborhoods knee deep in poverty and gangs isn't going to save many lives. The guns are already THERE.

These cities have so many problems that it's insane to me that people think just arming everyone is going to solve them.

Not sure what to do about the gang violence either. The best solution would be for them to kill each other off, but that's not likely.

Since you used Detroit as an example. How do you propose the citizens of Detroit protect themselves from the "guns that are already there" in the possession of these gang members? Call the cops that take hours to show up? As you can see from the article I posted above, even some of them are turning into thugs themselves. How do you know more guns will not prevent senseless crimes from happening in places like Detroit?

I would argue that they would prevent crime in 2 ways.

1. Deterrence. Are those new Air Jordans you're about to steal really worth dieing over? It should make people think before they go committing a crime that they could end up dead over it.

2. Breaking the cycle. Dead criminals can't commit more crimes.

There's alot of examples of people in Detroit using firearms to defend themselves. The time for "let's try to change these troubled individuals" has long passed in the city of Detroit. It's about defending yourself and your property, because no one else is going to do it for you.

It actually seems like the ideal place for some of the gun rights people that post here. They should move to Detroit and they would probably get to shoot real people, and not just have wet dreams about doing it.

Edited August 19, 2013 by Karee

[Harsh_77 718]

If you lived there, you would know who is doing the shootings. These are folks that are in gangs or criminal minded. Drug dealers and gang members wouldn't be able to pass a background check so they get the guns through illegal means. And check your facts, most of the shootings are innocent kids who were caught in the crossfire.

http://blackstarjournal.org/?p=989

These weren't just gang bangers, these were regular kids who lived in the neighborhood.

Marvin - I am not saying all the kids are gangbanger but your argument that they do not have money to buy food and hence they would not buy gun does not follow thru.

The guy in the article is a felon and he had gun on him, do you think he went thru background check? Felon was the one who pistol whipped the guy to began with, how did he have a gun, do you think he cared about any laws?

Thats exactly pro gun folks have been telling stricter regulation, gun registry, univ background check is only applicable to law abiding citizen not to felon. In most cases law abiding citizens are not involved in the drive by shootings and gang related shootings so having stricter gun regulation, univ background check, gun registry is not going to reduce any violence but just provide a false sense of security to anti gun folks.

[Harsh_77 718]

Yeah, I still have yet to understand how more guns in these neighborhoods would bring down crime. If it works in Vermont, surely it will work in Detroit, right?

Nobody said the more guns would bring down the crime but you want to restrict a law abiding citizen from arming themselves but the felons are free to get the weapon how does that reduce the violence?

[Harsh_77 718]

My point was that what works in rural states and towns won't work the same way in cities like Detroit and Chicago.

Concealed carry will not save the innocent victims that are killed every day in gang related violence in these cities. Drive by's, kids getting shot in the crossfires, etc. More guns will not stop these senseless crimes from happening.

Throwing more guns into neighborhoods knee deep in poverty and gangs isn't going to save many lives. The guns are already THERE.

These cities have so many problems that it's insane to me that people think just arming everyone is going to solve them.

Mos of the time one gang member shoots at another gang member, I am sure they are not just shooting at a passerby for fun.

Which means in first place neither gang member should have a gun assuming both are felons.

When such ppl try to make a purchase thru legal channel they are stopped and reported to FBI, last year over 500K such cases were reported and nothing happen coz Obama, Biden, Bloomberg and their admin was too busy in convincing rest of America we need stronger gun control.

Edited August 19, 2013 by Harsh_77

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

Nobody said the more guns would bring down the crime but you want to restrict a law abiding citizen from arming themselves but the felons are free to get the weapon how does that reduce the violence?

Those weapons the felons are arming themselves with come from law abiding citizens just trying to protect themselves. It a vicious cycle, much like trying to put a fire out with gasoline. The NRA is just fanning the flames and simple minded folks don't even realize how they are being used to perpetuate the cycle.

[Penny Lane 8,159]

Nobody said the more guns would bring down the crime but you want to restrict a law abiding citizen from arming themselves but the felons are free to get the weapon how does that reduce the violence?

1) Plenty of people here have said more guns = less crime.

2) The part I bolded is false. I've told you numerous times it's false. You keep saying that's what I want, and I keep telling you it isn't. I can't think of new ways to explain it to you, though.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

Mos of the time one gang member shoots at another gang member, I am sure they are not just shooting at a passerby for fun.

Which means in first place neither gang member should have a gun assuming both are felons.

When such ppl try to make a purchase thru legal channel they are stopped and reported to FBI, last year over 500K such cases were reported and nothing happen coz Obama, Biden, Bloomberg and their admin was too busy in convincing rest of America we need stronger gun control.

You just don't want to see it, that is all. After all, if a few poor people get killed, it's their own fault for being poor.

[Karee 4,191]

You just don't want to see it, that is all. After all, if a few poor people criminals get killed, it's their own fault for being poor criminals.

Fixed.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

Fixed.

That was uncalled for.

[Karee 4,191]

That was uncalled for.

It's pretty much the same as claiming that people are being killed by guns simply because they're poor.