Teenager Is Shot and Killed by Officer - boy’s aunt compared her nephew to Trayvon Martin in Florida.

[Harsh_77 718]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/09/denise-helms-california-woman-hopes-obama-is-assassinated_n_2104184.html

Another 4 years of this (N-word),” Helms wrote on her Facebook Tuesday night. “Maybe he will get assassinated this term.”

Does this count, or are you going to argue this isn't good enough?

Marvin - first was there ever discussion on the same topic on VJ, if there was I was not part of the discussion.

Second its her individual opinion and she can post anything, same way as you and I can post anything we want on our FB page.

Did you see any white group just like blank panther issue a statement to kill a black person?

[Karee 4,191]

One of his best films. I'm suprised you are just now seeing it. It has been deemed culturally significant by the Arts.

I've actually seen it multiple times, but it never really meant much to me until looked at through the context of the conversations that go on here. Maybe I didn't get the message, but I found myself wondering why the guy got his pizza place burned down because the cops wrongly killed someone. I look at it like if the guy would've turned his radio down, there would've been no problem. Some people might look at it and say if the guy running the pizza shop didn't take a baseball bat and smash the hell out of his radio there wouldn't have been a problem.

At the end of it all one guy was dead, and the pizza place that everyone hung out at was burned up, probably never to be rebuilt. I understand there's more to it than the radio incident, but why not just turn your radio down?

[Karee 4,191]

I'll add this. That movie did reinforce one rule I've tried to live by. Never ever get the cops involved in anything if you can help it. Chances are nothing good is going to come out of it.

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

Marvin - first was there ever discussion on the same topic on VJ, if there was I was not part of the discussion.

Second its her individual opinion and she can post anything, same way as you and I can post anything we want on our FB page.

Did you see any white group just like blank panther issue a statement to kill a black person?

Actually there are quite a few:

http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-files/ideology/white-nationalist/active_hate_groups

Like I said, you only want to talk when it's negative against us.

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

I've actually seen it multiple times, but it never really meant much to me until looked at through the context of the conversations that go on here. Maybe I didn't get the message, but I found myself wondering why the guy got his pizza place burned down because the cops wrongly killed someone. I look at it like if the guy would've turned his radio down, there would've been no problem. Some people might look at it and say if the guy running the pizza shop didn't take a baseball bat and smash the hell out of his radio there wouldn't have been a problem.

At the end of it all one guy was dead, and the pizza place that everyone hung out at was burned up, probably never to be rebuilt. I understand there's more to it than the radio incident, but why not just turn your radio down?

Let's talk about this:

This is something Spike Lee brought up in an interview:

One of many questions at the end of the film is whether Mookie "does the right thing" when he throws the garbage can through the window, thus inciting the riot that destroys Sal's pizzeria. Critics have seen Mookie's action both as an action that saves Sal's life, by redirecting the crowd's anger away from Sal to his property, and as an "irresponsible encouragement to enact violence".^[11] The question is directly raised by the contradictory quotations that end the film, one advocating non-violence, the other advocating violent self-defense in response to oppression.^[11]

Spike Lee has remarked that he himself has only ever been asked by white viewers whether Mookie did the right thing; black viewers do not ask the question.^[12] Lee believes the key point is that Mookie was angry at the death of Radio Raheem, and that viewers who question the riot's justification are implicitly valuing white property over the life of a black man.^[

I agree there was a better way to get your point across. Both were wrong, Radio was wrong for blasting his music while trying to argue with Buggin Out, Sal was wrong when he took the bat to the radio.

[The Nature Boy 4,224]

Another Trayvon Martin? You decide!

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/05/nyregion/officer-fatally-shoots-armed-teenager-in-bronx-police-say.html?_r=1&

Enlarge This Image

Shaaliver Douse was killed.

Enlarge This Image

Yana Paskova for The New York Times

Just after 3 a.m. on Sunday, the pop of gunshots cut through the air. Two rookie police officers — barely a month out of the Police Academy, and now on foot patrol in the Bronx — hurried toward the sound.

They headed east on East 151st Street to find a chase unfolding, one person running down the middle of the street, another following with a handgun. The officers ordered the second figure to drop his gun. Instead, another shot rang out.

One of the officers fired a single shot. The bullet struck the gunman in his lower left jaw, killing him.

The suspect, Shaaliver Douse, was believed to be part of a youth gang on East 169th Street called the Nine. He lived at a nearby housing project, and court records showed he had been caught with a gun at least once before; his last brush with the law involved his arrest on a charge of attempted murder, after a rival gang member was shot in May. All this, the police said, at age 14.

The shooting of Shaaliver appeared to fall within the guidelines for using deadly force, police officials said. Nonetheless, the shooting seemed to frame the uneasy confluence of issues that the Police Department constantly grapples with in high-crime neighborhoods like Shaaliver’s: the youth gangs that still run roughshod over parts of the Bronx; the prevalence of illegal guns on the streets; and the waves of rookie officers sent in to patrol those streets each year.

It also served to stir resentment of the police among some in Shaaliver’s neighborhood, including the boy’s aunt, Quwana Barcene, 35, who compared her nephew to Trayvon Martin in Florida.

“Him, Trayvon Martin, it’s never going to end,” she said. “A child. Fourteen years old. Fourteen years old. Gone. Shot in the head. By police.”

At a news conference Sunday, Commissioner Raymond W. Kelly acknowledged that Shaaliver had been the youngest person he could recall being shot by the New York police. He offered condolences to the teenager’s mother for the death of “her son of just 14 years of age,” he said.

“Regardless of the circumstances,” he said, “this is a crushing blow to any parent.”

But the circumstances justified the shooting, he said, showing a pair of videos. In the first, a figure who Mr. Kelly said was Shaaliver can be seen approaching a group of several men, including one who Mr. Kelly said was Shaaliver’s target.

Shaaliver can be seen raising a weapon and firing three shots, Mr. Kelly said; the group then scatters. A second video, taken around the corner, showed the next moment: the target running fast around the corner in the middle of the street, a bullet flying past him and slamming into a wall on the far side in a puff of smoke. Mr. Kelly said that after the teenager was ordered to drop his gun, he fired again, though it was unclear whether he was aiming for the fleeing man or the officers.

“I think they did what we would expect officers of any experience level to do,” Mr. Kelly said, noting that officers were trained to “shoot to stop,” not simply to wound. He said the shooting officer, who is white, is 26; his partner, who is black, is 27. Shaaliver was black.

The officers had been assigned to the Bronx as part of the Police Department’s Operation Impact, which matches rookie officers with more seasoned ones to patrol areas with especially high crime rates. City officials have credited the program with helping to reduce crime. But it has long drawn suspicion from civil liberties groups, who say flooding crime-ridden areas with officers has also swelled the number of unwarranted police stops, breeding suspicion and antagonism in some communities.

At Shaaliver’s housing project, the Gouverneur Morris II Houses, his friends gathered to support his parents. “This is unreal, how the police get away with murder,” his aunt, Ms. Barcene, said. “They get away with murder.”

A gun had been confiscated from the teenager in the past year: He was arrested on a charge of criminal possession of a weapon in October. He pleaded not guilty and had another court date scheduled for later this month, according to Bronx court records. He had also been charged with attempted murder in May, when a 15-year-old member of the Lyman Place crew was shot in the shoulder. Those charges were dropped after the victim and a witness stopped cooperating, a city official said on Sunday.

Investigators are now looking into the possibility that Shaaliver had been chasing another member of a rival gang on Sunday, the official said.

He was to start his sophomore year at Alfred E. Smith Career and Technical High School in the South Bronx in the fall, his aunt said. An only child, he had been raised mainly by his mother, though he saw his father often. And lately, his mother said, he was less wayward. She had told a neighbor, Cynthia Blount, 49, that she was thinking of moving them away from the neighborhood’s negative influences.

"She said he started becoming good,” Ms. Blount said. “I don’t know what happened. And now this happened.”

I got as far as "told him to drop the gun and he fired another shot"

Irrelevant who he was shooting at.

His mom is right. I do see some traits that both he and TM shared.

I would have no problem with taking firearms away from police.

Suggesting people should be trained to "shoot to wound" demonstrates absolutely NO knowledge of firearms, shooting, physics, basic common sense, the law, or even the purpose for the existance of firearms. I understand barring such posts could be considered discrimination based on nationality, but they should come with a warning label. NO ONE in any police department anywhere is trained to "shot to wound". Being "horrified" they aren't is further display of lack of knowledge. Like adding bells and whistles to the display. Using a firearm constitutes deadly force and if there is no justififcation for using deadly force, then you do not use deadly force. Period. Deadly force should carry a high liklihood of being...deadly. (hence the name)

I mean where should they wound them? In the trigger finger so they can't shoot back? OMG. Just scratch them to get their attention? stop, I must stop, my brains are turning to turds just thinkng about it!

The similarity I see with TM is that the officers will be reviewed to determine if their actions were justified, just as GZs were. There may be a different method applied because they are police officers (depends on what the city has agreed to in the interest of satisfying racists) but in any case they will be reviewed by the usual method and that will determine if they are justified or not.

NO ONE will ask them why they weren't trained to "shoot to wound"

shot to wound. Put down the crack pipe. Thats like having sex not to orgasm. Only way I would shot to wound is if it was a family member or close friend.

[The Nature Boy 4,224]

It's unfortunate that the act of a few idiots is bad for "the black population"..

There are morons of every race, but it seems that in this country, only blacks are judged as a whole by the actions of a few.

I don't remember the last time one idiot ended up being "bad for the white population" in this country.

It's a double standard that shouldn't exist, but does.

actually to be fair we also judge Muslims by the actions of a few also

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

I got as far as "told him to drop the gun and he fired another shot"

Irrelevant who he was shooting at.

His mom is right. I do see some traits that both he and TM shared.

shot to wound. Put down the crack pipe. Thats like having sex not to orgasm. Only way I would shot to wound is if it was a family member or close friend.

Actually his mom is dead wrong. TM wasn't armed, part of a gang, nor was he committing a crime when he was stopped by GZ. The only trait is the skin color. It was a justified kill.

[Karee 4,191]

Let's talk about this:

This is something Spike Lee brought up in an interview:

One of many questions at the end of the film is whether Mookie "does the right thing" when he throws the garbage can through the window, thus inciting the riot that destroys Sal's pizzeria. Critics have seen Mookie's action both as an action that saves Sal's life, by redirecting the crowd's anger away from Sal to his property, and as an "irresponsible encouragement to enact violence".^[11] The question is directly raised by the contradictory quotations that end the film, one advocating non-violence, the other advocating violent self-defense in response to oppression.^[11]

Spike Lee has remarked that he himself has only ever been asked by white viewers whether Mookie did the right thing; black viewers do not ask the question.^[12] Lee believes the key point is that Mookie was angry at the death of Radio Raheem, and that viewers who question the riot's justification are implicitly valuing white property over the life of a black man.^[

I agree there was a better way to get your point across. Both were wrong, Radio was wrong for blasting his music while trying to argue with Buggin Out, Sal was wrong when he took the bat to the radio.

I guess that's the point. Thing escalated on both sides quickly. You should turn your radio down when the owner of the pizzeria tells you to do so. He is the owner. The guy with the radio didn't treat the Koreans with a whole lot of respect when he was buying batteries either. If you don't want to turn it down, leave. That said, the owner shouldn't have smashed his radio. If I remember right the cops killed the dude with the radio, not the pizzeria owner. So to me it's bull$hit that the crowd took out it's anger with the police on the pizzeria. As far as valuing the white property over someones death, that's more bull$hit. The pizzeria guy didn't kill him, the cops did. Now if they went and burned down the police station, that would make more sense. To me a busted radio does not equal burned down pizzeria. Although the events were somewhat related, the cops killed the guy, not the pizzeria owner.

A smashed radio should not result in a pizzeria being burned down and a guy dead.

The whole thing reminded of Detroit growing up in the sense that no one would own a a party store (that's a convenience store to those not from that area) I remember when everyone moved out to the suburbs, the Arabs took over all those stores. After so many assaults, robberies, you name it from the black population that was left, the owners put in floor to ceiling bullet proof plexiglass. When you went in there to buy something, if you wanted it put in a bag, you had to put it in a plexiglass turnstile thing and they would put it in a bag, and then spin it back around so you could take it and leave. This was in the 80s. I imagine most of those places are probably closed now. Now you can consider this racist if you want, but the one common denominator that I saw growing up, was that as soon as a neighborhood went majority black in Detroit, it immediately went to hell with high crime and safety went out the window. That's just a plain fact. I saw it with my own two eyes over and over. Neighborhood after neighborhood as we slowly moved west growing up. Now the question is did that neighborhood simply go to hell because black people moved there? On the surface the easy answer would be yes, but I don't believe that. I know my parents, my grandparents and most of my other family members believed that. I'd guess there were many factors in the demise of that place. Detroit was and probably still is a black/white place. I think the black people as well as the white people are guilty of making it segregated as it was/is. The funny thing is, I moved to Texas and lived in a pretty mixed race middle class suburb. Mixed race couples, everyone getting along. This was very foreign to me as that kind of stuff was frowned up big time in Detroit by both white and black people. You hung out with your own race up there. Quite frankly it was really weird at first. I ended up hanging out with all races in Texas, because that's what everyone did. Some people were cool, some were a$$holes. Race didn't seem to play a part in it one way or the other to me or anyone else.

Now maybe the above makes me a racist, I don't know and TBH really don't care. Sorry to ramble, but that's just one story of a journey from a supposedly racially equal place ( Detroit ) to a supposedly redneck racist place (Texas) I found the complete opposite to be true.

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

I guess that's the point. Thing escalated on both sides quickly. You should turn your radio down when the owner of the pizzeria tells you to do so. He is the owner. The guy with the radio didn't treat the Koreans with a whole lot of respect when he was buying batteries either. If you don't want to turn it down, leave. That said, the owner shouldn't have smashed his radio. If I remember right the cops killed the dude with the radio, not the pizzeria owner. So to me it's bull$hit that the crowd took out it's anger with the police on the pizzeria. As far as valuing the white property over someones death, that's more bull$hit. The pizzeria guy didn't kill him, the cops did. Now if they went and burned down the police station, that would make more sense. To me a busted radio does not equal burned down pizzeria. Although the events were somewhat related, the cops killed the guy, not the pizzeria owner.

A smashed radio should not result in a pizzeria being burned down and a guy dead.

The whole thing reminded of Detroit growing up in the sense that no one would own a a party store (that's a convenience store to those not from that area) I remember when everyone moved out to the suburbs, the Arabs took over all those stores. After so many assaults, robberies, you name it from the black population that was left, the owners put in floor to ceiling bullet proof plexiglass. When you went in there to buy something, if you wanted it put in a bag, you had to put it in a plexiglass turnstile thing and they would put it in a bag, and then spin it back around so you could take it and leave. This was in the 80s. I imagine most of those places are probably closed now. Now you can consider this racist if you want, but the one common denominator that I saw growing up, was that as soon as a neighborhood went majority black in Detroit, it immediately went to hell with high crime and safety went out the window. That's just a plain fact. I saw it with my own two eyes over and over. Neighborhood after neighborhood as we slowly moved west growing up. Now the question is did that neighborhood simply go to hell because black people moved there? On the surface the easy answer would be yes, but I don't believe that. I know my parents, my grandparents and most of my other family members believed that. I'd guess there were many factors in the demise of that place. Detroit was and probably still is a black/white place. I think the black people as well as the white people are guilty of making it segregated as it was/is. The funny thing is, I moved to Texas and lived in a pretty mixed race middle class suburb. Mixed race couples, everyone getting along. This was very foreign to me as that kind of stuff was frowned up big time in Detroit by both white and black people. You hung out with your own race up there. Quite frankly it was really weird at first. I ended up hanging out with all races in Texas, because that's what everyone did. Some people were cool, some were a$$holes. Race didn't seem to play a part in it one way or the other to me or anyone else.

Now maybe the above makes me a racist, I don't know and TBH really don't care. Sorry to ramble, but that's just one story of a journey from a supposedly racially equal place ( Detroit ) to a supposedly redneck racist place (Texas) I found the complete opposite to be true.

Raheem was wrong and Sal was wrong. This we can agree on. The mob couldn't go after the cops, they knew it would have been a massacre. The cops just strangled Raheem to death, do you think they would have thought twice about shooting an angry mob of black people? And this was over 20 years ago, yet cops still kill black men with little or no regard. Just like when someone asked why in Rodney King they destroyed their own neighborhoods instead of the white ones? Same rules apply. You can't reason with a mob mentality, the korean store owner barely made it out alive. This same line of thinking is what blacks get stuck with everyday. Since Sal was white, and the cops were white, he was going to pay for Raheem's death. It happens to white people as well:

I lived in Normandy for about 20 years before I joined the military. My neighborhood was mostly black, but we had no crime there. Even now with things being bad as what they are, I still feel safer there than say Wellston, or Bluemounts. The problem is when blacks move in, whites move out. The support system goes with it. Police don't patrol anymore, funding disappears. Take a look to East St. Louis for a perfect example of this. It's like when we show up, they let us have it, but they don't provide the same level of help as they did when whites are living there.

Edited August 6, 2013 by Su and Marvin

[Karee 4,191]

I lived in Normandy for about 20 years before I joined the military. My neighborhood was mostly black, but we had no crime there. Even now with things being bad as what they are, I still feel safer there than say Wellston, or Bluemounts. There can be a myriad of things that cause this. I would wager no jobs, lack of education, plus the constant glorification to be nothing more than a rapper or drug dealer helps this out. This generation needs to get it's head out of it's butt, because at this rate, it's only going to get worse.

Yeah I don't think the neighborhoods went to hell in Detroit simply because they went from almost all white owned houses to almost all black owned houses in a short period of time. By short I mean 10 years or so. TBH I don't know exactly what happened, since it happened so quickly. Also this all happened when I was between the ages of 7 and 17, so I wasn't exactly up on the local politics and social situations. I just know we moved alot.

I agree that jobs and education are key. People need to realize if you don't care about yourself, no one else will. There's no doubt that the black population in this country has a negative stigma associated with it fairly or not. We probably disagree on how to fix it though.

[Jacque67 7,328]

One of his best films. I'm suprised you are just now seeing it. It has been deemed culturally significant by the Arts.

Love Spike Lee films.

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

Yeah I don't think the neighborhoods went to hell in Detroit simply because they went from almost all white owned houses to almost all black owned houses in a short period of time. By short I mean 10 years or so. TBH I don't know exactly what happened, since it happened so quickly. Also this all happened when I was between the ages of 7 and 17, so I wasn't exactly up on the local politics and social situations. I just know we moved alot.

I agree that jobs and education are key. People need to realize if you don't care about yourself, no one else will. There's no doubt that the black population in this country has a negative stigma associated with it fairly or not. We probably disagree on how to fix it though.

I would doubt that. I believe there is a lot to be done, on both sides. You can't put it all on the black community because it wasn't us who put us there. And you can't expect the government to fix it since they don't care. If both sides could meet in the middle, we could accomplish more.

But it's those remarks that say we earned this reputation, that pisses me off. There has never been a time in the US that we didn't have a bad rep. First we were slaves, then we were animals, now we're thugs or just flat out lazy. When does it ever change? I don't think it will.

[The Nature Boy 4,224]

I would doubt that. I believe there is a lot to be done, on both sides. You can't put it all on the black community because it wasn't us who put us there. And you can't expect the government to fix it since they don't care. If both sides could meet in the middle, we could accomplish more.

But it's those remarks that say we earned this reputation, that pisses me off. There has never been a time in the US that we didn't have a bad rep. First we were slaves, then we were animals, now we're thugs or just flat out lazy. When does it ever change? I don't think it will.

Well there was a time when stereotypes such as --i always found it odd that when we were young in the south and someone worked you very hard, you might say, he worked us like a bunch of (insert stereotype) . Equally odd when someone was lazy you might say , They are sorry as a bunch of ( Insert stereotype)

It was the first racial stereotype that I thought thru enough to realize that a group could not be the standard for intense work and laziness at the same time.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

I got as far as "told him to drop the gun and he fired another shot"

Irrelevant who he was shooting at.

His mom is right. I do see some traits that both he and TM shared.

shot to wound. Put down the crack pipe. Thats like having sex not to orgasm. Only way I would shot to wound is if it was a family member or close friend.

Wait,,,why are you making sex references in the same sentence witrh family member references.