Green Card holder returning to US to visit though not actually residing in US yet

[walbers 1]

My wife and I live in Vietnam right now. We applied for a GC last year for her, received 10 yr unconditional in December. Went to the US for 3 weeks, returned to Vietnam. Things changed and my repatriation plans have been stalled....now moving to China by the end of the year for work so not sure when I will repatriate.

Would like to try to hold on to the GC. We're going to go ahead and purchase a home in the US this fall. Plan to go back to sign docs, etc for this. I am given to believe if you can get back at least once a year for the first couple of years you won't get your green card yanked.

Any advice on how to hang on to the GC and to handle travelling back and forth? Should we apply for a re-entry permit or just take our chances (1st trip back since getting the GC last December)? No plans to follow citizenship path.....would just like to try hang on to the GC until we do repatriate and avoid having to reapply for visitor visa or GC again.

thanks for your advice...

Regards

Will

[Hypnos 6,576]

A green card is for an alien who wishes to live in the US. If you are not living in the US then you are not entitled to a green card.

You can read USCIS' information here: http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis/menuitem.eb1d4c2a3e5b9ac89243c6a7543f6d1a/?vgnextoid=0c353a4107083210VgnVCM100000082ca60aRCRD&vgnextchannel=0c353a4107083210VgnVCM100000082ca60aRCRD

In general terms, overseas trips of up to six months are usually not an issue, trips of between six and twelve months may require you to prove to CBP that you have not abandoned your residency, and trips of between twelve and twenty-four months require you to have a re-entry permit in order to attempt to re-enter, and you may also have to show CBP the same proof of non-abandonment.

If your wife has only been in the US for one period, and that period was only three weeks long, then I think it's safe to say you may have issues re-entering. OTOH, you may encounter a CBP officer who sees she has a valid green card, has been outside the US for less than a year, and simply waves her through. There's no way to know until you try. If you apply for a re-entry permit then, whilst you can have the permit mailed to a US embassy abroad and can arrange to collect it from there, your wife will need to return to the US to have her biometrics taken.

The fact that you said you and your wife live in Vietnam could be construed as your wife having abandoned her green card by never establishing residency in the US in the first place.

Honestly, it sounds like you are trying to circumvent the spirit of the law, if not the letter of it. Your wife is not living in the US, you don't know when you will be returning to the US, and she has only ever been in the country for three weeks since her green card was granted. If CBP knew all of those things then there's a good chance they would begin the process to revoke her green card if she attempted to re-enter.

Edited August 5, 2013 by Hypnos

[slvrfx576 15]

Green card is for those who want to live in the US. It seems that you just want to "game" the system to fit your now changed circumstances. Now you don't want to live in the US !

[shekoujay 0]

Green card is for those who want to live in the US. It seems that you just want to "game" the system to fit your now changed circumstances. Now you don't want to live in the US !

Wow, that's a bit of an accusation isn't it? Like everyone else on here, I think Will is just trying to navigate the immigration system in the most efficient way possible.

There are a lot of us on here who work for US companies or multi-nationals abroad who feel that we are discriminated against by the US government because we chose to work abroad. We have to pay taxes on worldwide income, but we fall into a special class when it comes to being able to have the freedom of travel to the US with our loved ones. I don't know any USC who would choose to go through the B2 visa application every 12 months (perhaps soon to be six months if some get their way). It's costly, time consuming and unpredictable. This wasn't a problem a few years ago when 10 year B2's were available, but with the reciprocity system now, most people can only get 1 year validity.

Also, even though we chose to take a job in a foreign country once, it doesn't mean we have the freedom to choose the timing of our return. With the job market as it is, it's difficult find a job back in the US, particularly if you've been out for a while. I know WIll intends to move back, but can't just pack up and go without confirmed employment. The pressure of the job hunt is quite enough without knowing whether your spouse will be able to accompany you when you finally succeed.

There's also the problem of section 214(b) of the Immigration and Nationality Act which states that a foreigner must prove to the satisfaction of the Consular officer his or her intent to return to his home country after visiting the States:

Every alien shall be presumed to be an immigrant until he establishes to the satisfaction of the consular officer, at the time of application for a visa, and the immigration officers, at the time of application for admission, that he is entitled to a nonimmigrant status under section 101(a)(15)

As Wikipedia rightly describes the effect of this: "In practice, this means that consular officers have wide discretion to deny a visa application." If you are married to a USC, it's hard to make a case that you intend to be a non-immigrant forever.

So Will and many others do not have the freedom of travel that USC's who reside in the US have. By the "letter of the law", we have to effectively enter a lottery system every 12 months and hope that our B2's get approved, which makes buying airline tickets in advance a huge gamble. I don't think that's a fair system for US citizens and their families to have to endure. So I wouldn't blame anyone for asking the question on how to extend the validity of their green cards while still making their living overseas.

As for my advice, we are working with an immigration attorney who suggested we apply for N-400 Expedited Naturalization. However, this may involve your spouse living in the US for 3-5 months during the approval process. Depending on your time horizon for moving back to the US, this may or may not be an acceptable sacrifice. http://www.visajourney.com/forums/topic/136606-n-400-expedited-naturalization-319b-information/ This provision includes people working for US companies engaged in promoting foreign trade, so depending on your job, you may have to prove that you are doing that.

Any other expats here have any real experience to share ? It would be great if the replies could be to the OP's question rather than criticism of his motivations.

[Hypnos 6,576]

At the end of the day a green card is for an alien who wishes to live in the US, it is not meant to be used as a multi-entry tourist visa that you can whip out whenever you feel like coming here for a few weeks and looking around.

You make some valid criticisms of the current US immigration process, but these are the confines of the system as it stands today. You should take it up with your elected federal representatives if you feel that the law should be modified.

The OP's wife is not currently in the US, is (presumably) not abroad on US government business, has only ever been in the US for a fortnight, and so based on the totality of the circumstances is not entitled to a green card. This does not necessarily mean that CBP will move to have the green card invalidated, but at the same time they don't seem to be doing any of the things which people who take up residence in the US usually do (maintain a home, bank account, etc.).

The OP's motivations are his own, I do not doubt them (especially when he said that his original plans changed, necessitating him to stay in Vietnam).

Edited August 12, 2013 by Hypnos

[Noel194 53]

At the end of the day a green card is for an alien who wishes to live in the US, it is not meant to be used as a multi-entry tourist visa that you can whip out whenever you feel like coming here for a few weeks and looking around.

You make some valid criticisms of the current US immigration process, but these are the confines of the system as it stands today. You should take it up with your elected federal representatives if you feel that the law should be modified.

The OP's wife is not currently in the US, is (presumably) not abroad on US government business, has only ever been in the US for a fortnight, and so based on the totality of the circumstances is not entitled to a green card. This does not necessarily mean that CBP will move to have the green card invalidated, but at the same time they don't seem to be doing any of the things which people who take up residence in the US usually do (maintain a home, bank account, etc.).

The OP's motivations are his own, I do not doubt them (especially when he said that his original plans changed, necessitating him to stay in Vietnam).

Amen! If an alien wants to enjoy all the rights and priviledges associated with US Greencard then he or she needs to live here and contribute to the USA not a foreign country. I think it is absurd that the pervious poster would indicate that the op is "promoting foreign trade" when they are clearly gaming the system. Oh and "Navigating the Immigration System" should include following the rules not doing what is easiest for you.

Edited August 15, 2013 by Noel194

[Darnell 8,478]

walbers - I think she's been out of the USA already for more than 6 months,

so this idea to hang on to the green card ?

I think it's just not on.

For 'whats next' - tempus fugit, and the two of you are 3 months away from end of work contract in China - file an I-130 to USCIS BeiJing or USCIS Guangzhou, chase the DCF path.

[shekoujay 0]

So, Will, it seems the general consensus here is that if you want to enjoy the same rights and privileges as the roaming English teachers, backpackers and online bride seekers who scooped up a barely literate alien girl and managed to get her to the US to gain citizenship, then you need to sacrifice your career, quit your well-paying overseas job helping Americans have access to affordable products , and go back and live in the US, hopefully not unemployed or flipping burgers. After 3 years of that, you may possibly gain the right to resume your expatriate career with your beloved wife,as well as the right to travel freely, and no longer be accused of "gaming the system." Good luck with that.

Alternatively, you could read the section of the USCIS Policy Manual titled: "Spouses of US Citizens Employed Abroad" which outlines the legal path to gaining citizenship for your wife without any residence requirement. As most immigration policies, the limits of "development of foreign trade and commerce of the United States" are left open to interpretation. However, I know from our correspondence that your job involves buying and selling of goods for the US market, which is both trade and commerce, so this may very well allow you to "follow the rules" and "contribute to the USA."

http://www.uscis.gov/policymanual/HTML/PolicyManual-Volume12-PartG-Chapter4.html#S-C

[Noel194 53]

I think you are cinfusing the requirements. This rule is not for people who CHOOSE to live abroad but for people who are "Stationed Abroad". If the military or private company sends you there and you must go for employment that counts. If you choose to move to another country for a job that might fit a catgory but that you are not stationed at by a US company or government you will not qualify. Simply working for a company abroad that selld goods for the US Market will not work. If it did anyone who lived abroad could sell Hershey Candy bars and claim they were promoting goods for the US market. You have to alter your situation to follow the rules you cannot twist the rules to fit your situation.

[slvrfx576 15]

The topic is the dead giveaway: "Green card holder returning to US to visit"...with no intention to reside.

Green card is not a visitor visa.

Regarding USCIS "Spouses of USC's Employed Abroad":

Employment must be by an AMERICAN company (as Noel 194 points out ), and it is a path to US Citizenship,( which the OP has said that he does not intend to pursue).

I am not defending the current US immigration system with regard to "Shekoujay" 's complaints. But it is what it is. I am certainly not happy being separated from my " barely literate alien girl" ( who happens to have a master's degree and is fluent in 4 languages) while going through the proper channels to get her visa.

Best advice for Walbers....follow Darnell's advice.

[olsan3 8]

So, Will, it seems the general consensus here is that if you want to enjoy the same rights and privileges as the roaming English teachers, backpackers and online bride seekers who scooped up a barely literate alien girl and managed to get her to the US to gain citizenship, then you need to sacrifice your career, quit your well-paying overseas job helping Americans have access to affordable products , and go back and live in the US, hopefully not unemployed or flipping burgers. After 3 years of that, you may possibly gain the right to resume your expatriate career with your beloved wife,as well as the right to travel freely, and no longer be accused of "gaming the system." Good luck with that.

Ha ha ha.

[NikLR 13,227]

Alternatively, you could read the section of the USCIS Policy Manual titled: "Spouses of US Citizens Employed Abroad" which outlines the legal path to gaining citizenship for your wife without any residence requirement. As most immigration policies, the limits of "development of foreign trade and commerce of the United States" are left open to interpretation. However, I know from our correspondence that your job involves buying and selling of goods for the US market, which is both trade and commerce, so this may very well allow you to "follow the rules" and "contribute to the USA."

http://www.uscis.gov/policymanual/HTML/PolicyManual-Volume12-PartG-Chapter4.html#S-C

Is the USC (in this case the OP) under contract for or working for the US government? Are they military? Are they "stationed" abroad? Then I doubt your method would work. The alternative is turning in the green card which better enables the spouse to get a visitor visa and continuing as they are now.