I'm carrying a gun - Am I looking for trouble?

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

Lame answer. A thug pulls a knife on you and demands your wallet. You draw your gun. He runs away. Crime is deterred and no one gets hurt.

You are assuming it actually happens that way. Unfortunately for the armed citizen, it usually doesn't.

[Ban Hammer 13,333]

So in other words you do advocate accepting a man's choice to not modify his behavior and leaving it up to the woman encountering him to just deal with it to the best of her ability. Why is it an acceptable choice for a man to persist in violence in our society? Sure, it's "frowned upon", but that's about it. Being violent towards women is a choice a man makes. Why is he allowed to make that choice?

again, a straw man. my statement is about reality - some men just won't. therefore, women should have the option of a firearm.

[spookyturtle 9,465]

I used the FBI statistics, which are you using? It's common knowledge that FBI statistics are just the tip of the iceberg. Most rapes go unreported due to the victim blaming, intimidation, fear of retaliation and stigma that women face when reporting a rape, combined with the general misogynist attitude prevailing in society, law enforcement and courts.

And why does a gun need to be fired to be a deterrent? How is it a deterrent if the perp knows the victim can't fire it for fear of the consequences?

Why does someone have to die or be shot to stop a crime? Because in reality that's just what ends up happening. You are aware of all the shooting deaths happening daily in this country, right? Your theory of deterrence just doesn't work in practice, and people actually die. In huge numbers.

Rape is never going to stop. Why? Are you making sure of it?

Utter nonsense.

Are you accusing me of supporting rape? You wanna go there?

[Jacque67 7,328]

Who is advocating leaving women helpless? What do you even mean by that statement?

You do know that it's a provable fact that where women live in a situation where violence against them is likely to occur, introducing a gun into the situation just guarantees that woman is more likely to end up dead? Of course, we could go with the, it's their own fault for living in such a horrific domestic arrangement, or, only a foolish woman would end up in an abusive relationship, or a myriad of other arguments that heap all the blame squarely on the victim and to what end? All in an effort to prove that having a gun is a sensible defensive strategy regardless of whether you have the time or inclination to engage in regular target practice and training? That having guns in houses is desirable? It's an incredibly bizarre argument to make and yet here you are making it.

Truth.

[Ban Hammer 13,333]

Who is advocating leaving women helpless? What do you even mean by that statement?

You do know that it's a provable fact that where women live in a situation where violence against them is likely to occur, introducing a gun into the situation just guarantees that woman is more likely to end up dead? Of course, we could go with the, it's their own fault for living in such a horrific domestic arrangement, or, only a foolish woman would end up in an abusive relationship, or a myriad of other arguments that heap all the blame squarely on the victim and to what end? All in an effort to prove that having a gun is a sensible defensive strategy regardless of whether you have the time or inclination to engage in regular target practice and training? That having guns in houses is desirable? It's an incredibly bizarre argument to make and yet here you are making it.

mkay, so take away any chance for the woman to have an equalizer if that makes you feel better.

[spookyturtle 9,465]

You are assuming it actually happens that way. Unfortunately for the armed citizen, it usually doesn't.

How does it "usually" happen?

[Peikko 1,575]

again, a straw man. my statement is about reality - some men just won't. therefore, women should have the option of a firearm.

The fact that they have the option doesn't make that option a viable defense against the potential for rape or a desirable one. It's already been stated that most rape is not perpetrated against random strangers but occurs in the home. Having a gun in the home demonstrably increases the probability that the women in the home will be severely injured or killed. How does that help?

[Peikko 1,575]

mkay, so take away any chance for the woman to have an equalizer if that makes you feel better.

How many times, there's overwhelming data out there that proves that having a gun in the home does not give a woman a better chance of escaping violence or rape, in fact the EXACT OPPOSITE is true. How is that me taking away anything from a women in a vulnerable situation?

Edited August 4, 2013 by The Truth™

[Ban Hammer 13,333]

The fact that they have the option doesn't make that option a viable defense against the potential for rape or a desirable one. It's already been stated that most rape is not perpetrated against random strangers but occurs in the home. Having a gun in the home demonstrably increases the probability that the women in the home will be severely injured or killed. How does that help?

How many times, there's overwhelming data out there that proves that having a gun in the home does not give a woman a better chance of escaping violence or rape, in fact the EXACT OPPOSITE is true. How is that me taking away anything from a women in a vulnerable situation?

so what do you suggest then as an alternative?

Edited August 4, 2013 by charles!

[spookyturtle 9,465]

I'd like to see all of this overwhelming data.

so what do you suggest then as an alternative?

Submission?

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

How does it "usually" happen?

Just having the gun, means you are 4.5 times more likely to be killed than if you didn't have the gun. Pulling the gun actually increases chance of being killed to 5.5 times.

http://ajph.aphapublications.org/doi/abs/10.2105/AJPH.2008.143099

[Peikko 1,575]

I'd like to see all of this overwhelming data.

Here's an idea, open one of the links already provided in this thread or better yet, provide your own data that supports your contradictory opinion

[spookyturtle 9,465]

Just having the gun, means you are 4.5 times more likely to be killed than if you didn't have the gun. Pulling the gun actually increases chance of being killed to 5.5 times.

http://ajph.aphapublications.org/doi/abs/10.2105/AJPH.2008.143099

Wow, that was an in depth, convincing study.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

Wow, that was an in depth, convincing study.

It is an abstract, dude! The same study has been done over and over, with the same results, unlike Kleck and Lott.

[Peikko 1,575]

so what do you suggest then as an alternative?

As an alternative to what? Clearly removing most guns from most homes would increase everyone's safety not least the most at risk groups which are under 24's and women. However, there is no miracle cure for domestic violence or rape.