I'm carrying a gun - Am I looking for trouble?

[pddp 240]

sorry, i don't really believe in utopia.

Just quite recently really women owning property was a utopia, black people not being sold as slaves was a utopia, gays being able to legally marry was a utopia, etc. etc. etc. Haven't come to the realization yet that change is constant?

Edited August 4, 2013 by pddp

[spookyturtle 9,465]

One lame link? OK, you provided zero links to zero evidence of anything. I do not want any guns to be taken away from anyone, I am not a believer in legislating this type of decision making, but it would be good if those who choose to have guns in their homes choose to do so because they understand the risks rather than because they 'feel' that it's an answer to a problem they haven't really bothered to think about seriously. Do you really, honestly believe that someone who has a gun in the home 'just in case' is making a decision that will have a positive outcome?

I have made no claims that need evidence to support them. You're the one who said overwhelming evidence, not me. All I've basically said that it is possible to carry a gun as a deterrent and not be looking for trouble. Carrying a gun may help you avoid a violent crime if you were so victimized. For those that carry, it is like insurance. No need for you to agree with that, but it doesn't make them wrong if they are legally doing so. You may encounter someone who carries every day and you'd never be aware of it, that's the way it is with the vast majority of legal gun owners. I know it's hard for you to believe, but there are tens of millions of people who don't share your viewpoint, so to dismiss theirs is arrogant.

I don't know anyone who has a gun in their home who has had a negative outcome. Every gun owner I know hopes they never have to use it against another person. If it provides them with a sense of security, who are you to deny that? You don't like guns, don't buy one. Nothing wrong with that either. I respect your choice not to.

[Ban Hammer 13,333]

Not thrusting a gun in the hands of a women in a vulnerable situation is not taking away any chance they have or defending themselves, no matter how many times you say the same thing it doesn't make it true. Disprove the data I have provided links to that overwhelmingly proves that women and children who live in homes where guns are kept are more likely to end up injured or killed by that same gun than it being used to defend those women and children and the discussion can move on, until then...

so take guns away from women if it makes you happy. you know my thoughts on that.

Just quite recently really women owning property was a utopia, black people not being sold as slaves was a utopia, gays being able to legally marry was a utopia, etc. etc. etc. Haven't come to the realization yet that change is constant?

if that is one's definition of utopia, then it's a shortchanged version of it.

[Peikko 1,575]

so take guns away from women if it makes you happy. you know my thoughts on that.

if that is one's definition of utopia, then it's a shortchanged version of it.

Rinse, repeat, I am not proposing taking guns away from women, you said it again, it still isn't true.

[Peikko 1,575]

I have made no claims that need evidence to support them. You're the one who said overwhelming evidence, not me. All I've basically said that it is possible to carry a gun as a deterrent and not be looking for trouble. Carrying a gun may help you avoid a violent crime if you were so victimized. For those that carry, it is like insurance. No need for you to agree with that, but it doesn't make them wrong if they are legally doing so. You may encounter someone who carries every day and you'd never be aware of it, that's the way it is with the vast majority of legal gun owners. I know it's hard for you to believe, but there are tens of millions of people who don't share your viewpoint, so to dismiss theirs is arrogant.

I don't know anyone who has a gun in their home who has had a negative outcome. Every gun owner I know hopes they never have to use it against another person. If it provides them with a sense of security, who are you to deny that? You don't like guns, don't buy one. Nothing wrong with that either. I respect your choice not to.

I know there are millions of people who do not share my view, my point of view is that I have absolutely zero interest in owning a gun, so what?

You are contradicting points I have not made.

I'll make it clear again. If you or any one wants to own a guns because you collect them, because you enjoy shooting at ranges or because you enjoy hunting, have at it, that is reasonable. If as well as doing those things you also want to take your gun home because you feel that it could be useful if you are ever threatened, fine, do whatever you want It's not a very real threat but that's ok, anyone who has an interest in guns, handles them regularly, practices regularly and generally takes the business seriously is not really a risk to themselves or their families, although there is obviously an inherent risk, it's tiny.

What I question is the wisdom of ignoring, or encouraging the casual user, the gun owner who has no real interest in guns but thinks that having one might be cool, or would be useful in an emergency. I am not sure if you could legislate against that, but why obfuscate the reality that the risks of such gun owners getting injured or killed, or injuring or killing family members is real and more prevalent than the external danger that this is meant to be protecting against? Why would anyone who is serious about guns not consider that foolish and to be discouraged?

Edited August 4, 2013 by The Truth™

[spookyturtle 9,465]

I know it's difficult to believe, but there actually are responsible gun owners. And to use your logic on the opposite side, the risk of a gun owner or family member being injured or killed with his own gun is quite miniscule in proportion to the number of guns in the country.

[Peikko 1,575]

Once again, I have never, ever claimed there are no responsible gun owners.

However, having a gun is not a status symbol and in and of itself it's not something to be proud of no matter what the NRA may say. Gun ownership should be a serious business, not a casual purchase that is made without thought for the consequences of having one in the family home. Pediatricians have no gun axe to grind, they say having a gun in the home is a demonstrable risk to public safety but gun pushers refuse to believe it and don't see any reason to question the desirability of such large numbers of guns in the hands of people who know little to nothing about how to safely store, use and maintain them. Brilliant.

[Ban Hammer 13,333]

Once again, I have never, ever claimed there are no responsible gun owners.

However, having a gun is not a status symbol and in and of itself it's not something to be proud of no matter what the NRA may say. Gun ownership should be a serious business, not a casual purchase that is made without thought for the consequences of having one in the family home. Pediatricians have no gun axe to grind, they say having a gun in the home is a demonstrable risk to public safety but gun pushers refuse to believe it and don't see any reason to question the desirability of such large numbers of guns in the hands of people who know little to nothing about how to safely store, use and maintain them. Brilliant.

i'm mystified how a gun in the home is a risk to public safety.

also, where did anyone get the idea that

such large numbers of guns in the hands of people who know little to nothing about how to safely store, use and maintain them

anyone i know with a firearm knows how to use, store, and maintain one. or is there some citation you have that indicates otherwise, and i perhaps am familiar with a small segment of the firearm community?

[spookyturtle 9,465]

Once again, I have never, ever claimed there are no responsible gun owners.

However, having a gun is not a status symbol and in and of itself it's not something to be proud of no matter what the NRA may say. Gun ownership should be a serious business, not a casual purchase that is made without thought for the consequences of having one in the family home. Pediatricians have no gun axe to grind, they say having a gun in the home is a demonstrable risk to public safety but gun pushers refuse to believe it and don't see any reason to question the desirability of such large numbers of guns in the hands of people who know little to nothing about how to safely store, use and maintain them. Brilliant.

I don't know anyone who thinks owning a gun is a status symbol, but there probably are some who look at it that way. Having children and raising them properly is serious business too. No license or certification of any kind is required to reproduce. I wonder if that has anything to do with the crime rate? Anyone who leaves a gun where a small child has access to it is an irresponsible person. When a child is old enough, they should be taught proper gun safety if there are guns in the house.

[Peikko 1,575]

i'm mystified how a gun in the home is a risk to public safety.

also, where did anyone get the idea that

anyone i know with a firearm knows how to use, store, and maintain one. or is there some citation you have that indicates otherwise, and i perhaps am familiar with a small segment of the firearm community?

There's a lot that mystifies you, why should this be any different? Carry on, deny the statistics, the data, the information available for all to see and believe that having guns in the home for most people is a fantastic idea, have at it, it's a brilliant thesis.

[spookyturtle 9,465]

But the risk is so small that it is irrelevant, isn't it?

[Peikko 1,575]

But the risk is so small that it is irrelevant, isn't it?

No. Read the data, work it out or don't, your choice. Quite frankly, I don't think you really want to discuss this issue seriously at all because you have it in your head that people like me are trying to take your guns away from you so you stick you fingers in your ears and repeat that mantra. Nothing could be further from the truth but you guys are so brainwashed you can't even see why it makes sense to examine the real risk/benefit equation. Too bad.

[Ban Hammer 13,333]

There's a lot that mystifies you, why should this be any different? Carry on, deny the statistics, the data, the information available for all to see and believe that having guns in the home for most people is a fantastic idea, have at it, it's a brilliant thesis.

so no answer. that's not unexpected.

[spookyturtle 9,465]

No. Read the data, work it out or don't, your choice. Quite frankly, I don't think you really want to discuss this issue seriously at all because you have it in your head that people like me are trying to take your guns away from you so you stick you fingers in your ears and repeat that mantra. Nothing could be further from the truth but you guys are so brainwashed you can't even see why it makes sense to examine the real risk/benefit equation. Too bad.

I know there are over 400,000 violent crimes committed per year. I also know that there are nowhere near 400,000 people shot or killed by their own guns. You don't want to discuss the issue seriously, I used your logic on the opposite side and you sit here and refute it. You said the chances of being in a situation where a gun would be useful are miniscule. There are hundreds of thousands of violent crime. How many people are shot with their own gun? I haven't seen anything posted here except an article from a Minnesota newspaper and some two paragraph statement posted by Bill, yet you scream overwhelming evidence. Show me. If you think the benefit is minimal, then it's clear the risk is even less.

[Peikko 1,575]

I know there are over 400,000 violent crimes committed per year. I also know that there are nowhere near 400,000 people shot or killed by their own guns. You don't want to discuss the issue seriously, I used your logic on the opposite side and you sit here and refute it. You said the chances of being in a situation where a gun would be useful are miniscule. There are hundreds of thousands of violent crime. How many people are shot with their own gun? I haven't seen anything posted here except an article from a Minnesota newspaper and some two paragraph statement posted by Bill, yet you scream overwhelming evidence. Show me. If you think the benefit is minimal, then it's clear the risk is even less.

You didn't read that article from 'a Minnesota newspaper', and that's fine, you do not have to. You want to believe the feel good emotional idea promoted by the NRA so nothing I can show you will change your mind. Unless I could show you that more than 400,000 people are killed annually by their own guns, there's nothing to discuss according to you. You are right, there isn't. You have clearly demonstrated, and thanks for that by the way, that you have no clue how to assess the risk/benefit of having guns in the home for people who have no other interest in owning a gun than for self defense. Good job.