Guns from out-of-state make up the grand majority of city crimes

[The Nature Boy 4,224]

but they keep trying.

I love that cartoon. I saved it on my desktop

[GandD 5,966]

I wonder how many folks would still be anti-gun or "mandatory background checks for all transactions" in the absence of laws.

No one. On the side of anarchy and chaos there is a need for defending one's self from roving gangs of bad folks. In a civilized society there is no room for joe average walking around dealing out justice as he sees fit. Guess which world you and I live in right now.

[Teddy B 17,252]

It's probably a bad comparison, but here goes. I'll use prohibition as an example The reason for prohibition was the wives of this country thought their husbands were turning into a bunch of lazy no good drunks. Alcohol I'm sure caused alot of violence back then and still does. Then they came along and outlawed alcohol. The alcohol become somewhat more difficult to obtain, but people that wanted it, still got it. I doubt prohibition had any real effect on domestic violence, alcoholism, laziness, whatever. What it did do, was create an illegal market for criminals that I would argue ended up being much worse than the alcohol itself. The point being that outlawing something that people want, doesn't really solve the problems. In fact, it has the unintended consequences of creating new problems. The trick is to get people to not want it. That's the hard part.

Prohibition made alcohol illegal for everyone in the country, even law abiding citizens, I don't think that is a fair comparison. I'm not suggesting outlawing guns for law abiding citizens, but I am advocating tighter controls. It's been proven that a good chunk of the guns used to kill people are sold legally in states with lax gun laws. Tighten those laws and make that much harder to do and the number of gun deaths will start to go down.

[Karee 4,191]

Prohibition made alcohol illegal for everyone in the country, even law abiding citizens, I don't think that is a fair comparison. I'm not suggesting outlawing guns for law abiding citizens, but I am advocating tighter controls. It's been proven that a good chunk of the guns used to kill people are sold legally in states with lax gun laws. Tighten those laws and make that much harder to do and the number of gun deaths will start to go down.

Agreed. Although whenever you make anything more difficult to obtain, by nature the price of that item will increase if there is a demand for it. Whenever you have a wide gap in supply and demand for something that is illegal in one place, but not another, it would make sense to assume there would be people willing to break that law if the price is right. Let's say the government succeeds in passing some kind of national gun restrictions. If there is still a demand that is not being met, then enter the criminal element to meet that demand. At an inflated price of course.

I knew people back in the 80s that got busted buying guns in Virginia and selling them in New York. Let's say Virginia and the rest of the 50 states tighten their gun laws. What's to stop people from manufacturing them in Mexico or any other impoverished country and importing them here? There would definitely be a financial incentive to do so, that probably does not exist today. It just seems that trying cut off the supply of something has never worked until something was done to curb the demand.

Edited August 2, 2013 by Karee

[Teddy B 17,252]

Agreed. Although whenever you make anything more difficult to obtain, by nature the price of that item will increase if there is a demand for it. Whenever you have a wide gap in supply and demand for something that is illegal in one place, but not another, it would make sense to assume there would be people willing to break that law if the price is right. Let's say the government succeeds in passing some kind of national gun restrictions. If there is still a demand that is not being met, then enter the criminal element to meet that demand. At an inflated price of course.

I knew people back in the 80s that got busted buying guns in Virginia and selling them in New York. Let's say Virginia and the rest of the 50 states tighten their gun laws. What's to stop people from manufacturing them in Mexico or any other impoverished country and importing them here? There would definitely be a financial incentive to do so, that probably does not exist today. It just seems that trying cut off the supply of something has never worked until something was done to curb the demand.

I don't believe that. I think cutting off the supply of something to people that aren't legally allowed to have it, has a great affect on the majority of the problem, it keeps most of the honest and somewhat honest folks, from breaking the law. With nationwide gun laws, we are talking about making some gun sales that are now legal, illegal. That alone removes a good amount of the folks that are selling these guns legally from the mix.The hardcore criminal element will always be there to try and circumvent the laws in place, that's why we have law enforcement and prisons.

To say that there is no sense in making new laws because some people are going to break the law anyway is completely ridiculous, imo.

Edited August 2, 2013 by Teddy B

[Karee 4,191]

I don't believe that. I think cutting off the supply of something to people that aren't legally allowed to have it, has a great affect on the majority of the problem, it keeps most of the honest and somewhat honest folks, from breaking the law. With nationwide gun laws, we are talking about making some gun sales that are now legal, illegal. That alone removes a good amount of the folks that are selling these guns legally from the mix.The hardcore criminal element will always be there to try and circumvent the laws in place, that's why we have law enforcement and prisons.

To say that there is no sense in making new laws because some people are going to break the law anyway is completely ridiculous, imo.

Well the honest and somewhat honest folks aren't the problem. The people that are the problem, are the ones who have no regard for the law in the first place.

[Teddy B 17,252]

Well the honest and somewhat honest folks aren't the problem. The people that are the problem, are the ones who have no regard for the law in the first place.

Again, I disagree. The honest and somewhat honest folks are the ones selling the guns because it's legal. Making the activity illegal, will deter most of them from selling them.

[spookyturtle 9,466]

I think crimes should only be committed with guns bought in the state where the crime is to be committed. Using a gun from another state should be a crime.

[Karee 4,191]

I think crimes should only be committed with guns bought in the state where the crime is to be committed. Using a gun from another state should be a crime.

Maybe some kind of GPS element to the firing mechanism?

[Teddy B 17,252]

I think crimes should only be committed with guns bought in the state where the crime is to be committed. Using a gun from another state should be a crime.

It should be transferable though, like a car registration, because criminals have the right to move.

[Ban Hammer 13,590]

Well the honest and somewhat honest folks aren't the problem. The people that are the problem, are the ones who have no regard for the law in the first place.

perhaps we should ban cities.....

[Harsh_77 718]

So the idea is to have the wild west and even less laws?

The reasoning for your argument is that since this mythical "criminal" will just get the weapon anyway we as a country should do nothing? Well, except flood the streets with even more weapons?

With that logic:

Since stray dogs may bite humans, flood the cities with even more dogs to attack the stray dogs. Thus protecting more people.

This is nuts...

It's the mythical argument. There isn't any data.

Your logic is passing the more and more laws which really only impacts the law abiding citizens is going to help.

Going with your logic all the citizens should be forced to install the breathe analyzers in the car and everyone would be required to blow to start the car.. just coz some knuckle head made poor choice to drive drunk.

The numbers show IN NY in Chicago even with the stricter gun laws the crime rate is high, which essentially proves just having tougher gun laws does not work but there are other things like felons wanting to purchase a weapon is reported by dealers feds need to work on it rather they let it slide under the rug.

[GandD 5,966]

Your logic is passing the more and more laws which really only impacts the law abiding citizens is going to help.

Going with your logic all the citizens should be forced to install the breathe analyzers in the car and everyone would be required to blow to start the car.. just coz some knuckle head made poor choice to drive drunk.

The numbers show IN NY in Chicago even with the stricter gun laws the crime rate is high, which essentially proves just having tougher gun laws does not work but there are other things like felons wanting to purchase a weapon is reported by dealers feds need to work on it rather they let it slide under the rug.

All law enforcement exists because some knuckle heads don't follow the laws.

[Teddy B 17,252]

All law enforcement exists because some knuckle heads don't follow the laws.

Don't confuse him with reality.

[RGinWA 816]

Your logic is passing the more and more laws which really only impacts the law abiding citizens is going to help.

Going with your logic all the citizens should be forced to install the breathe analyzers in the car and everyone would be required to blow to start the car.. just coz some knuckle head made poor choice to drive drunk.

The numbers show IN NY in Chicago even with the stricter gun laws the crime rate is high, which essentially proves just having tougher gun laws does not work but there are other things like felons wanting to purchase a weapon is reported by dealers feds need to work on it rather they let it slide under the rug.

Registering a weapon and getting your background checked only effects those NOT following the law and those who SHOULDN'T have a weapon. Try getting married without getting checked out or try getting a passport.

Why is this so hard to understand? We all follow laws everyday and the ones who don't eventually get caught? Don't want to go to jail...don't break laws.

Is this too difficult to grasp? How's it removing your freedom? If you don't pass...well you didn't have the freedom anyway.