White America Must Make a Choice: What Side of History Do You Stand On?

[Protocol417 161]

Lets suppose Zimmerman was a women

.With all those injuries and witness statements suggesting "she" was being attacked and Trayvon was a White male, do you suppose there would be a bias favoring the self defense claim because the battered face belonged to a women?

Now but we often hear it when some white family gets off at the wrong exit.

Not if it came out that she had gotten out of her vehicle when they told not to (with a gun, no less) when told to stay put and then followed the white male, who was only on his way home from the store. We might question why the white male felt the need to be so aggressive towards the woman in defending himself (which I do about Trayvon, as well), but I think the main line of questioning would definitely be "why did she follow him with a gun?".

I don't know much about Charlotte, but Chicago is pretty racially divided and segregated, and I still never once heard anyone say they were in the wrong place at the wrong time, whether in personal conversation or on the news. Maybe if someone got caught in gang crossfire, but that would be true no matter their race (I'm thinking specifically of a little black girl who was killed in a similar manner last year). Perhaps this is more indicative of your area that this phrase is applied only when white people are involved?

[Peikko 1,575]

Which side of history do you stand on? Do you stand with the Fugitive Slave Act of 1850 that made every neighborhood watched by the slave patrols. Do you stand with the courts, police and juries that time and time again acquitted anyone accused of lynching a Black person? Do you stand with the White Citizenship Councils who were the most “respected” men of their community, who defended Jim Crow apartheid? Do you stand with the Klu Klux Klan who were the first to make the argument that the Voting Rights Act and Affirmative Action gave “special rights” to Blacks, an argument that quickly became a rally crying for white Americans around the country.

Or do you stand with the Abolitionists like Frederick Douglas, William Garrison and Harriet Tubman who were routinely told that they were creating racial hostility and disturbing the natural order. Do you stand with Ida B. Wells who launched an international campaign against lynching and used her skills as a journalist to expose the false accusations of rape and theft in story after story of Black men who were lynched. Do you stand with Emmett Till and his family when he, at 14 years of age, was brutally murdered by white men because he “didn’t know his place” and was supposedly flirting with a white girl. Do you stand with Rosa Parks, Martin Luther King Jr., the Freedom Riders and the Civil Rights movement as they faced angry white mobs from Chicago to Alabama?

My nephews, 5 and 7 years old, recently asked their Grandmother, at the Lincoln Presidential Library, “Nana, how could Christians have supported slavery?” It’s a heartbreaking question. And many of us who are white would respond with indignation about slavery, as we should. But how often do so many of us look back and wonder “how could people have supported slavery and segregation.” And when we look back, we are usually pretty clear that we’re not just talking about the people who actively supported, but also the people who through their indifference and inaction supported these systems. The argument is frequently made, well that was just considered normal at the time, even though it is appalling to us now. But what isn’t as frequently named is that it was the resistance of Black Americans, people of color and white anti-racists who took on those injustices and won institutional and cultural changes.

However, most white Americans would either say that they would have been on the right side of history working for justice or at the very least, they would not be on the wrong side of history supporting the slave system and segregation. But it is always so much easier to assume you would have been on the right side of history in retrospect. What is much more difficult is being on the right side of history in the here and now. Because in the here and now, we are living in the “what was considered normal,” the normal that in retrospect is so clearly racist.

The Trayvon Martin murder, and the verdict which acquitted George Zimmerman is just the tip of the iceberg, as a recent report found that in 2012 a Black man, woman or child was killed every 28 hours by police, security guards or vigilantes. It not the uniqueness of Trayvon Martin being racial profiled and killed for being Black “in the wrong neighborhood”, it’s that his story is so tragically familiar. Even President Barack Obama and Attorney General Eric Holder have recently spoken out about how prevalent and dangerous racial profiling is. While there are many white people outraged and demonstrating the verdict, there are many more who say “it’s just so complicated,” “they both made bad decisions that night,” “Martin got what he deserved,” or simply “the jury did a good job.”

It’s time to speak honestly. At all the points in history that we look back on and can’t understand how people supported such racism, in all those eras, white people said “it’s too complicated,” “it’s the way things are,” “that Black person must have done something to deserve it.” Even in the murder of Emmitt Till, many white people said “it may have been extreme, but the boy forgot his place.” Today, the verdict is in, and white people, have to choose what side of history we are on. This is our moment. Our character, values, and legacies are shaped by the choices we make in the times we live, not by the stands we imagine ourselves taking in the past. I believe in our ability to stand, in the millions, in the tradition of the Abolitionists, the Freedom Riders, and the Dream Act students, the immigrant rights movement and the Justice for Trayvon Martin movement today.

http://www.knoxnews.com/news/2013/jul/31/chris-crass-white-america-must-make-choice-what-si/

This type of emotional op ed piece is particularly unhelpful. The American justice system is not perfect, mistakes are made, individuals lose out to all kinds of inequalities in the system but to suggest that this specific case is a pivotal moment in American history is simply wrong. There is just no evidence at all that anyone involved was motivated by racism, or that the police investigation was conducted in an unfair or prejudicial light. It's a shame that this case is symbolic of anything other than that to get a conviction you need to provide evidence that a crime was committed. I am saddened that America is a place where shootings are seen as a normal part of life but that's an entirely different argument and not one that anyone is interested in discussing let alone addressing.

[Danno 1,228]

GZ's prejudice lead him to follow a black teen, get his #### kicked, then kill the teen in supposed self defense. Was it profiling? Yeah, it was. Does he get life in prison because he profiled a black kid? No.

Just because I don't think GZ should not have been found guilty of murder on the basis of racial profiling does not make me a bigot. He's guilty of being a f***tard.

What kind?

The BBQ run turned out to be a Bust..... my fav place to eat was closed down. Maybe it is the Obama economy or perhaps the impending heathcare form burden coming down the pike.

Then again, maybe if I had been a better tipper and quit bringing in my own drinks.

[slim 1,530]

I still never once heard anyone say they were in the wrong place at the wrong time, whether in personal conversation or on the news. Maybe if someone got caught in gang crossfire, but that would be true no matter their race (I'm thinking specifically of a little black girl who was killed in a similar manner last year). Perhaps this is more indicative of your area that this phrase is applied only when white people are involved?

I remember catching the Greyhound in St. Louis and I took public trans downtown from the base and walked the rest of the way to the station. I got tactically disoriented and stopped in to a small shop to ask for directions. The man working the counter looked at me and said, "You know you probably shouldn't be walking through this neighborhood, right?"

Luckily for me it was the right time. I had zero issues and walked the rest of the way there without incident.

[Danno 1,228]

We also know that whites committ more rape, mass shootings, and white collar crime. But is this brought into play? Do folks assume you're more likely to committ rape? Or robbery? Or God forbid a mass shooting since 95% of those are committed by white men.

I shouldn't have to bear the burden of what some blacks do anymore than you should have to bear it for what whites do.

I would like to see what numbers you are looking at to determine 95% of mass shootings are done by whites.

Of course since Whites are like 70 percent of the population one would expect them to own at least that percentage of incidents.

And since these "mass murders" account of such a small percentage of people killed, why carve out this one little areas to focus on?

To get a more clear picture of who is over represented in murder lets look to the FBI.

Year 2011

Whites- 4729

Blacks- 5486

Other -256

Well shazam! even though Afro Americans are only 12% of the population they account for more death than the other two categories combined.

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-3

I will wait for your numbers on mass-shooters but I suspect blacks will be represented at their population level.

-----------------

These facts aside I do agree with your statement-

"I shouldn't have to bear the burden of what some blacks do anymore than you should have to bear it for what whites do."

[Danno 1,228]

Not if it came out that she had gotten out of her vehicle when they told not to (with a gun, no less) when told to stay put and then followed the white male, who was only on his way home from the store. We might question why the white male felt the need to be so aggressive towards the woman in defending himself (which I do about Trayvon, as well), but I think the main line of questioning would definitely be "why did she follow him with a gun?".

One of the problems with this story is the misinformation that seems to be everywhere prompting wrong conclusions to be made.

In your mind GZ was told "not to get out of your car"

when the events don't support that.

THe dispatch asked a lot of questions, one of them "where" was the suspicious person located.

Zimmerman was walking trying to get that info when he was told "thats not necessary". so he was already over in the area not in his car when he was told "we don't need you to do that"

We all listen to the edited 911 call and loose appreciation for the time frame in which events happened.

A 911 dispatcher is not law enforcement can their directions cary no weight.

If trayvon is free to walk where he wants why is not Zimmerman?

[spookyturtle 9,466]

[Teddy B 17,252]

I remember catching the Greyhound in St. Louis and I took public trans downtown from the base and walked the rest of the way to the station. I got tactically disoriented and stopped in to a small shop to ask for directions. The man working the counter looked at me and said, "You know you probably shouldn't be walking through this neighborhood, right?"

Luckily for me it was the right time. I had zero issues and walked the rest of the way there without incident.

So "tactically disoriented" is the new "lost'? Are you by any chance a "sanitation engineer"?

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

I remember catching the Greyhound in St. Louis and I took public trans downtown from the base and walked the rest of the way to the station. I got tactically disoriented and stopped in to a small shop to ask for directions. The man working the counter looked at me and said, "You know you probably shouldn't be walking through this neighborhood, right?"

Luckily for me it was the right time. I had zero issues and walked the rest of the way there without incident.

St. Louis has been on the decline for quite some time. It didn't used to be like that back in the 80's and early 90's. We were just downtown for the Race for the Cure back in June. Stayed at the Hilton at the Ballpark. Had a great time. But I'm not surprised they didn't mess with you, I'd be more of a target than you would be down there.

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

I would like to see what numbers you are looking at to determine 95% of mass shootings are done by whites.

Of course since Whites are like 70 percent of the population one would expect them to own at least that percentage of incidents.

And since these "mass murders" account of such a small percentage of people killed, why carve out this one little areas to focus on?

To get a more clear picture of who is over represented in murder lets look to the FBI.

Year 2011

Whites- 4729

Blacks- 5486

Other -256

Well shazam! even though Afro Americans are only 12% of the population they account for more death than the other two categories combined.

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-3

I will wait for your numbers on mass-shooters but I suspect blacks will be represented at their population level.

-----------------

These facts aside I do agree with your statement-

"I shouldn't have to bear the burden of what some blacks do anymore than you should have to bear it for what whites do."

I wasn't going to respond since you love to twist facts. I said spree killings, not murder. I believe Ghandi posted it, but we can also look at serial killers as well.

[SMR 368]

The best evidence is the bullet wound and the location of Zimmerman's holster. I was surprised the prosecution didn't do a better job explaining how both those make self defense impossible. Martin was either retreating at the time he was shot, or Zimmerman already had the gun in his hand, before Martin had Zimmerman on his back.

I've been thinking about this and figure there is a common sense change that could be made to the way self defense claims are treated. We should change the law so that making a self defense claim in court amounts to waiving the right to remain silent. It's already well established that if a defendant chooses to take the stand at his trial, he or she is not allowed to pick which questions to answer and on which questions to remain silent. He or she has to stand for cross-examination by the prosecution. When a defendant uses a self defense defense, he or she is effectively asserting to the court and jury that what happened was self defense. While that's a very vague and general piece of testimony, I would argue it amounts to giving testimony (even if the defendant doesn't say it directly, but relays it through his lawyer).

In the example of GZ, I imagine that the jurors were aware that GZ was asserting self defense. Obviously, the counter argument is that GZ's lawyers simply looked at the facts and came to the conclusion independently that they should argue self defense, but that stretches the limits of belief in my opinion. If a problem occurred in the trial, it is that GZ was allowed to assert self defense vaguely and without having to provide details to his side of the story. If GZ had to take the stand to defend his self defense claim, then the court and jury would better be able to judge how his story lined up with other evidence and testimony and the prosecution would have the opportunity to highlight any ways in which GZ's story doesn't match the evidence and other testimony. No one can say how such trial would have turned out, but I think this type of change would be a common sense solution to those people who think that it's too easy to kill someone and then claim self defense.

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

I've been thinking about this and figure there is a common sense change that could be made to the way self defense claims are treated. We should change the law so that making a self defense claim in court amounts to waiving the right to remain silent. It's already well established that if a defendant chooses to take the stand at his trial, he or she is not allowed to pick which questions to answer and on which questions to remain silent. He or she has to stand for cross-examination by the prosecution. When a defendant uses a self defense defense, he or she is effectively asserting to the court and jury that what happened was self defense. While that's a very vague and general piece of testimony, I would argue it amounts to giving testimony (even if the defendant doesn't say it directly, but relays it through his lawyer).

In the example of GZ, I imagine that the jurors were aware that GZ was asserting self defense. Obviously, the counter argument is that GZ's lawyers simply looked at the facts and came to the conclusion independently that they should argue self defense, but that stretches the limits of belief in my opinion. If a problem occurred in the trial, it is that GZ was allowed to assert self defense vaguely and without having to provide details to his side of the story. If GZ had to take the stand to defend his self defense claim, then the court and jury would better be able to judge how his story lined up with other evidence and testimony and the prosecution would have the opportunity to highlight any ways in which GZ's story doesn't match the evidence and other testimony. No one can say how such trial would have turned out, but I think this type of change would be a common sense solution to those people who think that it's too easy to kill someone and then claim self defense.

I don't always agree with you, but this I can get behind. I believe you should have to explain your self defense in order to acertain it's validity. Because with this line of defense, Michael Dunn might be aquitted as well. You think TM/GZ was a big deal? Wait until this trial comes out.

[Karee 4,191]

I've been thinking about this and figure there is a common sense change that could be made to the way self defense claims are treated. We should change the law so that making a self defense claim in court amounts to waiving the right to remain silent. It's already well established that if a defendant chooses to take the stand at his trial, he or she is not allowed to pick which questions to answer and on which questions to remain silent. He or she has to stand for cross-examination by the prosecution. When a defendant uses a self defense defense, he or she is effectively asserting to the court and jury that what happened was self defense. While that's a very vague and general piece of testimony, I would argue it amounts to giving testimony (even if the defendant doesn't say it directly, but relays it through his lawyer).

In the example of GZ, I imagine that the jurors were aware that GZ was asserting self defense. Obviously, the counter argument is that GZ's lawyers simply looked at the facts and came to the conclusion independently that they should argue self defense, but that stretches the limits of belief in my opinion. If a problem occurred in the trial, it is that GZ was allowed to assert self defense vaguely and without having to provide details to his side of the story. If GZ had to take the stand to defend his self defense claim, then the court and jury would better be able to judge how his story lined up with other evidence and testimony and the prosecution would have the opportunity to highlight any ways in which GZ's story doesn't match the evidence and other testimony. No one can say how such trial would have turned out, but I think this type of change would be a common sense solution to those people who think that it's too easy to kill someone and then claim self defense.

In the scenario above it seems you're giving up the right to not be forced to incriminate yourself. I thought the right to remain silent was what you get after an arrest, not in court. Seems like it's having to prove your innocence, rather than having the state prove your guilt.

[Danno 1,228]

I am aware of a number of cases concerning Black serial killers, one was about a mile from where I lived in Charlotte when I first arrived, wallace I think his name was. Also the guy in Atlanta , the DJ killing little black kids and dumping them in the river. There was also another I am aware of in La. in which everyone was looking for a white guy but got surprised. DC snippers, Who was the guy who shot up the long island subway Ferguson I think? Then there was the guy in McDonalds who killed a number of people.

There are more than you might think.

Here is the first list Google took me to, I noticed a number of other lists but I have to meet a client so I don't have time to check out the accuracy of the list (though it seems to be linked to common sources.)

Black serial-killers

1
Howard Allen (black)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Howard_Allen
Birth name Howard Arthur Allen
Born February 10, 1949 (1949-02-10) (age 62)
Indianapolis, Indiana, United States
Killings
Number of victims: 3
Span of killings 1974–1987
Country United States
State(s) Indiana
Date apprehended August 4, 1987

2
Terry A. Blair (Black)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terry_Blair_(serial_killer)
Born 16 September 1961 (1961-09-16) (age 49)
Sentence Life imprisonment
Killings
Number of victims: 8
Span of killings 1982–2004
Country U.S.
State(s) Kansas City, Missouri
Date apprehended September 14, 2004

3&4&5
The Briley Brothers (Anthony Ray Briley, James “J.B.” Briley, Jr. and Linwood Briley) (Black)
were responsible for a series of killings in Richmond, Virginia in 1979 that lasted seven months before their arrest.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Briley_Brothers
Orline Christian, Michael McDuffie, Mary Gowen, Christopher Philips,John “Johnny G.” Gallaher, Mary Wilfong, Blanche Page and Charles Garner,
Harvey Wilkerson his 23-year-old wife Judy Barton (who was five months pregnant at the time) and her 5-year-old son Harvey

6
Charlie Chop-off (black)
Background information
Birth name Unknown (possibly Erno Soto)
Also known as Unknown
Conviction Never convicted
Sentence Never sentenced
Killings
Number of victims: 6
Span of killings March 9, 1972–May 15, 1974
Country United States
State(s) New York
Date apprehended Unapprehended
(the only surviving victim who is black said Soto, who is black, looked like the killer)

7
Posteal Laskey Jr. (black)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cincinnati_Strangler
Posteal Laskey Jr., the man believed to be the “Cincinnati Strangler”
Birth name Posteal Laskey Jr.
Also known as The Cincinnati Strangler
Born 1938
Died May 29, 2007
Cause of death Natural causes
Killings
Number of victims: 7
Span of killings 1965–1966
Country USA
State(s) Ohio
Date apprehended December, 1966

8
Alton Coleman (black)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alton_Coleman
Also known as Robert Knight
Born November 6, 1955(1955-11-06)
Waukegan, Illinois, United States
Died April 26, 2002(2002-04-26)
Cause of death Execution by lethal injection
Sentence Death
Killings
Number of victims: 7
Span of killings 1984–1984
Country United States
State(s) Wisconsin, Illinois, Ohio, Indiana, Michigan, Kentucky
Date apprehended July 20, 1984

9
Juan Covington (black/mulatto)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juan_Covington
Born March 3, 1962
Killings
Number of victims: 3
Span of killings 1998–May, 2005
Country USA
State(s) Pennsylvania
Date apprehended 2005

10
Andre Crawford (black)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andre_Crawford
is an American convicted serial killer, who killed 11 women between 1993 to 1997. Many of the women were prostitutes or drug addicts. He would smoke crack after killing them and also had sex with their corpses.

11
Paul Durousseau (black/mulatto)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Durousseau
Durousseau’s mug shot
Birth name Paul Durousseau
Born August 11, 1970(1970-08-11)
Beaumont, Texas
Killings
Number of victims: 9+ (suspected of murders in Germany)
Span of killings January 6, 1997–January 20, 2003
Country U.S., possibly Germany
State(s) Georgia, Florida
Date apprehended June 17, 2003

12
Kendall Francois (black)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kendall_Francois
Mug shot of Kendall Francois
Also known as The Poughkeepsie Killer
Stinky
Born July 26, 1971 (1971-07-26) (age 40)
Poughkeepsie, New York
Conviction Murder
Sentence Life Imprisonment without parole
Killings
Number of victims: 8-10+
Span of killings October, 1996–August 26, 1998
Country U.S.
State(s) New York
Date apprehended September 2, 1998

13
Lonnie David Franklin Jr (black)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grim_sleeper
Grim Sleeper
Also known as Strawberry Murders
Killings
Number of victims: 10 charged, 1 suspected, 1 survivor
Span of killings 1985–2007
Country United States
State(s) California
Date apprehended July 2010

14
Carlton Gary (black)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlton_Gary
Birth name Carlton Michael Gary
Also known as Carl Michaels
Michael David
The Stocking Strangler
Born December 15, 1952
Columbus, Georgia
Conviction Assault
Murder
Property Damage
Sentence Death
Killings
Number of victims: 7
Span of killings 1977–1978
Country U.S.
State(s) Georgia
Date apprehended May 3, 1984

15
Lorenzo Gilyard (black)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lorenzo_Gilyard
Birth name Lorenzo Jerome Gilyard, Jr.
Born May 24, 1950(1950-05-24)
Killings
Number of victims: 12-13
Span of killings 1977–1993
Country USA
State(s) Florida, Missouri, Nevada
Date apprehended 2004

16
William Henry Hance (black)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Henry_Hance
Birth name William Henry Hance
Born c. 1952
Died March 31, 1994
Cause of death Execution by electric chair
Killings
Number of victims: 4 (known)
Span of killings 1977–1978
Country United States
State(s) Georgia, Indiana
Date apprehended 1978

17
Michael Hughes (black)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Hughes_(serial_killer)
Killings
Number of victims: 4+ (suspected of 4 more)
Country United States
State(s) California
Date apprehended 1993

18
Vincent Johnson (black)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vincent_Johnson
Also known as The Brooklyn Strangler
Born January 6, 1969 (1969-01-06) (age 42)
Conviction Murder
Sentence Life imprisonment without parole
Killings
Number of victims: 5-6
Span of killings August 26, 1999–June 7, 2000
Country U.S.
State(s) New York
Date apprehended August 5, 2000

19
Derrick Todd Lee (black)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derrick_Todd_Lee
Birth name Derrick Todd Lee
Also known as The Baton Rouge Serial Killer
Born November 5, 1968 (1968-11-05) (age 42)
St. Francisville, Louisiana
Conviction Assault,
Burglary,
Murder,
Misdemeanor trespassing,
Stalking,
Trespassing,
Voyeurism
Sentence Death
Killings
Number of victims: 7+
Span of killings August 23, 1992–March 3, 2003
Country USA
State(s) Louisiana
Date apprehended May 27, 2003

20
Christopher Peterson (black)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Peterson_(serial_killer)
(later changed his name to Obadyah Ben-Yisrayl),
dubbed the “Shotgun Killer”
Number of victims: 8
Span of killings Oct.-Dec 1990
Country USA
State(s) Indiana

21
Craig Price (black)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Craig_Price
Birth name Craig Price
Also known as The Warwick Slasher[1]
Born August , 1974(1974-08-00)
Killings
Number of victims: 4
Span of killings 1987–September 1, 1989
Country USA
State(s) Warwick, Rhode Island
Date apprehended 1989

22
Cleophus Prince Jr. (black)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleophus_Prince_Jr .
Birth name Cleophus Prince Jr.
Also known as The Clairemont Killer
Born July 24, 1967
California
Conviction Attempted burglary,
Burglary,
Murder,
Rape,
Robbery
Sentence Death
Killings
Number of victims: 6
Span of killings January 12, 1990–September 13, 1990
Country United States
State(s) California
Date apprehended March 3, 1991

23
Robert Earnest Rozier (black, former NFL player)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Rozier
(born July 28, 1955)
victims 7
he became involved with “The Brotherhood”, a Black Supremacist cult led by Yahweh ben Yahweh.
Rozier would admit to killing seven White people to please Yahweh.
arrested and charged with murder on October 31, 1986.
After agreeing to testify against Yahweh’s organization, he was sentenced to 22 years in prison.
After serving ten years in prison, Rozier was set free in 1996.[2]
Rozier was placed in the witness protection program under the name Robert Ramses.
On February 5, 1999, he was arrested for passing a bad check for $66 to pay for a car repair.
After finding Rozier’s true identity, police discovered a trail of 29 bounced checks totaling more than $2,000, and charged him with a felony.[4] He was convicted, and under a third strike law, Judge Eddie T. Keller sentenced Rozier to serve 25 years to life.[5]
He is currently serving 25 years to life on a conviction for check kiting under a third strike law.

24
Lemuel Smith (Black)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lemuel_Smith
Birth name Lemuel Warren Smith
Born 23 July 1941 (1941-07-23) (age 70)
Amsterdam, New York
Killings
Number of victims: 6
Span of killings January 21, 1958–May 15, 1981
Country U.S.
State(s) New York
Date apprehended August 19, 1977

25
Morris Solomon Jr. (Black)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morris_Solomon,_Jr.
Solomon with his attorney Kenneth Wells, Sacramento County Public Defender
Born 1944
Albany, Georgia
Killings
Number of victims: 6-7
Span of killings June 1986–April 1987
Country U.S.
State(s) California
Date apprehended April 22, 1987

26
Anthony Edward Sowell (black)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthony_Sowell
Sowell in the wanted flyer issued by the Cuyahoga County sheriff office, November 2009
Also known as The Imperial Avenue Murderer
Born August 19, 1959 (1959-08-19) (age 51)
Killings
Number of victims: 11
Span of killings c. May 2007–c. Sept 2009
USA, Ohio
Date apprehended October 31, 2009

27
Timothy Spencer (Black)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timothy_Wilson_Spencer
Also known as The Southside Strangler
Cause of death Execution
Killings
Number of victims: 5
Span of killings 1984–1987
Country United States
State(s) Virginia
Date apprehended January, 1988

28
Edward Surratt (black/mulatto)
No Wiki page (?)
http://www.post-gazette.com/regionstate/19991024serial4.asp
18+ victims
Date apprehended 2005

29
James Edward Swann, Jr.,(Black)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Swann
a.k.a. “The Shotgun Stalker”, (born 1964),
Washington, DC in 1993
Victoms 4 killed, 5 injured (20ga shotgun)
apprehended by the Metropolitan Police on April 19, 1993.[

30
John Floyd Thomas, Jr. (black)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Floyd_Thomas,_Jr.
Birth name John Floyd Thomas, Jr.
Also known as The Westside Rapist
The Southland Strangler
Willie Eugene Wilson[1]
Born July 26, 1936 (1936-07-26) (age 75)
Los Angeles
Sentence Seven consecutive life sentences without the possibility of parole
Killings
Number of victims: 7-15+
Span of killings November 1972–June 1986
Country United States
State(s) California
Date apprehended March 31, 2009

31
Maury Travis (black)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maury_Travis
Birth name Maury Troy Travis
Born October 25, 1965
Died June 10, 2002
Cause of death Suicide
Killings
Number of victims: 12-17
Span of killings 2000–2002
Country USA
State(s) Missouri
Date apprehended 2002

32
Chester Turner (black)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chester_Turner
Birth name Chester Dewayne Turner
Born November 5, 1966
Warren, Arkansas
Killings
Number of victims: 13
Span of killings 1987–1998
Country U.S.
State(s) California
Date apprehended April 30, 2007

33
Henry Louis Wallace (black)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Louis_Wallace
Birth name Henry Louis Wallace
Also known as The Charlotte Strangler
Born October 4, 1965 (1965-10-04) (age 45)
Barnwell, South Carolina
Conviction Murder
Rape
Sentence Death
Killings
Number of victims: 10
Span of killings Early 1990–March 8, 1994
Country United States
State(s) North Carolina
Date apprehended March 13, 1994

34
Carl “Coral” Eugene Watts (black)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Eugene_Watts
Birth name Carl Eugene Watts
Also known as Coral
The Sunday Morning Slasher
Born November 7, 1953(1953-11-07)
Killeen, Texas
Died September 21, 2007(2007-09-21) (aged 53)
Jackson, Michigan
Cause of death Prostate cancer
Conviction Murder
Sentence 60 years in prison, commuted to life
Killings
Number of victims: 12–suspected to be 100
Span of killings 1974–May 23, 1982
Country United States
State(s) Michigan
Texas
Date apprehended May 23, 1982

35
Nathaniel White (black)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nathaniel_White
(born July 28, 1960) is an African American serial killer.
Active in the Hudson Valley region of New York during the early 1990s,
White confessed to beating and stabbing six women to death while on parole.

36
Nicholas Wiley (black)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicholas_Wiley
Nicholas Wiley is an American serial killer who murdered three women in Syracuse, New York in 2004.

37
Wayne Williams (Black)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wayne_Williams
Birth name Wayne Bertram Williams
Also known as The Atlanta Monster
The Atlanta Child Killer
The Atlanta Child Murderer
Born May 27, 1958 (1958-05-27) (age 53)
Atlanta, Georgia, USA
Killings
Number of victims: 2-31
Span of killings July 21, 1979–May 22, 1981
Country U.S.
State(s) Georgia
Date apprehended June 21, 1981

Edited August 2, 2013 by Danno

[Teddy B 17,252]

In the scenario above it seems you're giving up the right to not be forced to incriminate yourself. I thought the right to remain silent was what you get after an arrest, not in court. Seems like it's having to prove your innocence, rather than having the state prove your guilt.

I agree with Karee on this. Forcing someone to testify in their own defense is removing their 5th amendment rights.