White America Must Make a Choice: What Side of History Do You Stand On?

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

You're still missing the point. There isn't evidence that GZ didn't act in self defense. The rest doesn't matter.

At best, your argument is that the legal system sometimes persecutes and even convicts people based on racial bias and emotion and therefore we should be upset that it didn't do so in the case of George Zimmerman. That, my friend, is a screwed up chip on your shoulder.

No, you're missing my point.

If you could have explained any of my bullets, as to say they would have happened if the colors were flipped, then I could concede with the argument. But the mere notion that color changes the rules is something to be upset about. I would never want someone to be convicted wrongly, based on color or anything else.

So by your line of thinking, we should be okay with being treated differently by the law because the color of our skin. That's wrong.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

You're still missing the point. There isn't evidence that GZ didn't act in self defense.

The best evidence is the bullet wound and the location of Zimmerman's holster. I was surprised the prosecution didn't do a better job explaining how both those make self defense impossible. Martin was either retreating at the time he was shot, or Zimmerman already had the gun in his hand, before Martin had Zimmerman on his back.

[Karee 4,190]

I still think Colonel Mustard did it in the library with the lead pipe.

[Teddy B 17,252]

I still think Colonel Mustard did it in the library with the lead pipe.

Colonel Mustard is yellow, he'll skate.

[Karee 4,190]

Colonel Mustard is yellow, he'll skate.

Good point. If it was professor plum, he'd be doing life.

[Teddy B 17,252]

Good point. If it was professor plum, he'd be doing life.

Especially if the jury is 5 peaches and an apple.

[slim 1,525]

I stand on the side of our courts following the rules and not what the public cries for in the media.

Still cant understand why black folks are trying to get that ball rolling again.

[Karee 4,190]

Especially if the jury is 5 peaches and an apple.

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

I stand on the side of our courts following the rules and not what the public cries for in the media.

Still cant understand why black folks are trying to get that ball rolling again.

But you cuss out cops when they put their lights on you?

And you will never understand it because you don't see it or live it.

I'll take it a bit further. The cops bit comes from your reaction when you had that little run in with the law a few posts back. I remember thinking, you have this blatent disregard for law enforcement, but in the case of TM and GZ, you were so patient and understanding when it came to GZ following TM.

Edited August 1, 2013 by Su and Marvin

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

But you cuss out cops when they put their lights on you?

And you will never understand it because you don't see it or live it.

Maybe he could look and act like a dirty hippie, and see what happens.

[Harsh_77 718]

Heck no, GZ would be in a cell and it would be a one day news story. There wouldn't be an outrage or protest, because the system would work.

You think system did not work becoz of the skin color?

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

You think system did not work becoz of the skin color?

The system works differently when skin color is involved.

I've personally posted the stats to prove this, so have Val eri and a few others.

[SMR 368]

You know, I've had time to calm down and reflect on some things. I will try to attack this the right way;

TM was drug and alcohol tested and a background check was run after his death, GZ wasn't. Do you think if GZ was black or even if both GZ and TM was white, would this happen?

If both of them were white, do you think folks would put a website together to raise money for a man who killed an unarmed white teenager?

Mr. Dooley and Mr. James had an altercation in which James(white) was shot by Dooley(black). SYG was used, yet Dooley was arrested within 2 days and charged with Manslaughter. His defense was way better than Zimmerman's.

Do you think an all white plus one hispanic jury would be able to keep their emotions in check when they could see TM as their child if he was white?

This is from an article on CNN I came across.http://www.cnn.com/2013/07/25/opinion/vivian-zimmerman-verdict/index.html?hpt=op_bn7

The reason race is the forefront is based on the reactions and actions of those directly involved.

And if you don't believe that, take a look at the thread about the mother and the black baby killers.

--Drug Testing: Trayvon Martin's body was probably tested for drugs because GZ asserted he acted like he was on drugs. If the cops didn't think that GZ was acting like he was on drugs, they probably didn't feel the need to test him. I honestly don't see this as something that changes with race.

--Assuming a case where both were white got the same media attention, I'm fairly confident a defense fund would have still materialized. GZ was financially supported mainly based on the gun rights angle. Race isn't a factor there.

--This isn't a question.

--Yes. People that can't keep their emotions in check usually don't end up in juries on high profile murder cases.

--Which specific reactions are you talking about? I assume we're not talking about the tape that NBC doctored, which is really the only thing that suggests GZ was racially motivated. Maybe we're talking about TM calling GZ a cracker, but I thought the claim was that cracker wasn't a racial slur in this case.

--That's another case where it appears the facts will end up speaking for themselves.

The best evidence is the bullet wound and the location of Zimmerman's holster. I was surprised the prosecution didn't do a better job explaining how both those make self defense impossible. Martin was either retreating at the time he was shot, or Zimmerman already had the gun in his hand, before Martin had Zimmerman on his back.

As far as the bullet wound, at least one expert stated that the bullet wound could have been point blank and didn't contradict GZ's story.

I understand where you're coming from with the holster. It doesn't sound absolutely conclusive to me (lots of weird situations happen in a grapple), but it might have helped. The main problem here is that GZ didn't testify. Without that, there is no way to introduce into court the way in which the holster was worn or the exact position in which he was being pinned.

No, you're missing my point.

If you could have explained any of my bullets, as to say they would have happened if the colors were flipped, then I could concede with the argument. But the mere notion that color changes the rules is something to be upset about. I would never want someone to be convicted wrongly, based on color or anything else.

So by your line of thinking, we should be okay with being treated differently by the law because the color of our skin. That's wrong.

I went ahead and answered your points for you (I didn't see any bullets).

I'm not saying it's okay for the law to treat people differently. I'm saying that the focus should be on cases where the system failed. For instance, the 'black baby killers' is a case where the police investigated poorly and appear to have persecuted the innocent. That's something that shows bias and flaws in the system. I can understand the outrage. Going after GZ even though the evidence wasn't there is basically saying that you'd prefer that the system persecute everyone unjustly.

[slim 1,525]

But you cuss out cops when they put their lights on you?

And you will never understand it because you don't see it or live it.

I'll take it a bit further. The cops bit comes from your reaction when you had that little run in with the law a few posts back. I remember thinking, you have this blatent disregard for law enforcement, but in the case of TM and GZ, you were so patient and understanding when it came to GZ following TM.

Raise your hand if youve been arrested more than once. Saying I dont know what its like because of my skin color is, well, racist. We have black cops too. Do you think they like white guys? And the white cops are no better. Cops are cops.

Getting harrassed by the cops isnt just for black people.

And my impatience with law enforcement in that incident had nothing to do with those guys being cops and everything to do with them being a$$hole drivers.

And wasnt it you that was so quick to point out GZ was NOT law enforcement?

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

3223

--Drug Testing: Trayvon Martin's body was probably tested for drugs because GZ asserted he acted like he was on drugs. If the cops didn't think that GZ was acting like he was on drugs, they probably didn't feel the need to test him. I honestly don't see this as something that changes with race.

--Assuming a case where both were white got the same media attention, I'm fairly confident a defense fund would have still materialized. GZ was financially supported mainly based on the gun rights angle. Race isn't a factor there.

--This isn't a question.

--Yes. People that can't keep their emotions in check usually don't end up in juries on high profile murder cases.

--Which specific reactions are you talking about? I assume we're not talking about the tape that NBC doctored, which is really the only thing that suggests GZ was racially motivated. Maybe we're talking about TM calling GZ a cracker, but I thought the claim was that cracker wasn't a racial slur in this case.

--That's another case where it appears the facts will end up speaking for themselves.

As far as the bullet wound, at least one expert stated that the bullet wound could have been point blank and didn't contradict GZ's story.

I understand where you're coming from with the holster. It doesn't sound absolutely conclusive to me (lots of weird situations happen in a grapple), but it might have helped. The main problem here is that GZ didn't testify. Without that, there is no way to introduce into court the way in which the holster was worn or the exact position in which he was being pinned.

I went ahead and answered your points for you (I didn't see any bullets).

I'm not saying it's okay for the law to treat people differently. I'm saying that the focus should be on cases where the system failed. For instance, the 'black baby killers' is a case where the police investigated poorly and appear to have persecuted the innocent. That's something that shows bias and flaws in the system. I can understand the outrage. Going after GZ even though the evidence wasn't there is basically saying that you'd prefer that the system persecute everyone unjustly.

If you shot someone, wouldn't it be standard procedure to test them to make sure they weren't impared?

"ABC News has learned police seemed to accept Zimmerman's account at face value that night and that he was not tested for drugs or alcohol on the night of the shooting, even though it is standard procedure in most homicide investigations." Now, this might be the case in Florida since their laws are different.

Sorry I can't agree if this was a white unarmed child, there would have been a defense fund if he was white. If he was black, I think it would have been worse.

My question was why was Mr. Dooley arrested within 2 days with minimum protest in a case that was way stronger that Zimmerman.

The actions I speak of are how this case was handled from the start. And the very notion that if GZ was black we would be wrongly convicted.