Help Appreciated: N-470 and N-400

[gerald2k 0]

Hello--

I've talked to three different immigration officers on the USCIS hotline and have received three different answers to my questions. Apparently, immigration isn't trained to handle non-standard situations, and I imagine they make mistakes all the time approving and rejecting these kinds of applications. Scary.

My Situation: As of December 2013, I'll have been a permanent resident for 2.5 years including one year of uninterrupted time in the US during that period.

My Goal: Citizenship. I'm required to have been a resident for 5 years (of which I must physically be present in the US for 2.5 years, as you know; I'll have satisfied that requirement by December 2013).

Complication: I'm interested in a job opportunity in Europe working for an American company (hypothetical -- I don't have the job in hand, but I'm exploring opportunities) which would start, say, in January 2014. That way, I'll have accumulated 2.5 years of physical presence in the US before I leave and stay overseas for 2.5 years.

What I Understand I Have to Do:

First, I understand that I have to file the N-470 and indicate that I fall under the category of workers employed by American corporations engaging in the development of trade for the United States. I understand that if the American company is traded on the New York Stock Exchange, NASDAQ, or if my employer is the wholly owned subsidiary of a US company the criteria is met. I understand that the N-470 has no time limit. So hypothetically I could work for McDonalds in Europe since they're listed on the NYSE. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Second, I understand that I can file the N-400 from overseas at the end of my 2.5 years abroad. I believe I can mail my fingerprints and only fly to the US for the interview and oath when required. I understand that I don't have to physically reside in the US in the 90 days prior to the N-400 application having already resided in the US in the past (I can just apply as a resident of the last state I lived in). Again, please correct me if I'm wrong.

Finally, I understand that I don't need to file for a Re-Entry Permit having already filed the N-470.

Am I correct in my understanding? Will filing for the N-470 and the N-400 work as described? USCIS has given me conflicting answers which is very worrying.

Thanks everyone.

Edited July 31, 2013 by gerald2k

[DC85 113]

first you need to get the job and you get an offical letter from the company which has to support your claim. if the n 470 got approved , you need to apply for re-entry permit. N470 and the entry permit are not related

"

NOTE:

You must still apply for a reentry permit in

advance of trips outside the United States that you expect

to last for 1 year or more. Approval of Form N-470 does

not exempt applicants from the physical presence

requirements for naturalization unless they are employed

by, or under contract with the U.S. Government.

"

Edited July 31, 2013 by myafi1985

[VanessaTony 3,567]

My understanding is this takes care of the continuous residence issue, but DOES NOT take care of how long you are allowed to be outside of the US at a time. You can be outside for up to 2 years using a re-entry permit.

Here is some information about it: http://www.uscis.gov/policymanual/HTML/PolicyManual-Volume12-PartD-Chapter3.html and about continuous vs. physical presence requirements (and relevant sections of the INA): http://www.uscis.gov/policymanual/HTML/PolicyManual-Volume12-PartD-Chapter5.html

The 90 days prior to filing part, I don't know. I couldn't be bothered reading all the info.

Honestly though, as a "legal permanent resident" you're supposed to be a legal PERMANENT resident of the US. I don't understand why, seeing you don't actually HAVE the job, why you'd risk your status this way. As you stated, it's a non-standard situation and I personally wouldn't want to fight about it.

[gerald2k 0]

My understanding is this takes care of the continuous residence issue, but DOES NOT take care of how long you are allowed to be outside of the US at a time. You can be outside for up to 2 years using a re-entry permit.

Here is some information about it: http://www.uscis.gov/policymanual/HTML/PolicyManual-Volume12-PartD-Chapter3.html and about continuous vs. physical presence requirements (and relevant sections of the INA): http://www.uscis.gov/policymanual/HTML/PolicyManual-Volume12-PartD-Chapter5.html

The 90 days prior to filing part, I don't know. I couldn't be bothered reading all the info.

Honestly though, as a "legal permanent resident" you're supposed to be a legal PERMANENT resident of the US. I don't understand why, seeing you don't actually HAVE the job, why you'd risk your status this way. As you stated, it's a non-standard situation and I personally wouldn't want to fight about it.

Thanks for your replies. I acknowledge this situation is tricky, but having the option to work overseas is valuable to me. I'll pursue the best opportunities, domestically or abroad if permitted.

It sounds like I would need to apply for both the N-470 and a Re-Entry Permit.

What would I do after 2 years abroad if I wanted to continue working abroad? Could I come in for a short visit before the Re-Entry Permit expired and then return to my overseas job? Would that work? And then apply 3-4 months later when my 5 years are up for the N-400?

Edited August 1, 2013 by gerald2k

[VanessaTony 3,567]

Thanks for your replies. I acknowledge this situation is tricky, but having the option to work overseas is valuable to me. I'll pursue the best opportunities, domestically or abroad if permitted.

It sounds like I would need to apply for both the N-470 and a Re-Entry Permit.

What would I do after 2 years abroad if I wanted to continue working abroad? Could I come in for a short visit before the Re-Entry Permit expired and then return to my overseas job? Would that work? And then apply 3-4 months later when my 5 years are up for the N-400?

No you couldn't come for a "short visit". It would be at least 1 month. You would have to return to the US, refile for the re-entry permit, wait for biometrics, and then you could leave. You would have the re-entry permit sent to the consulate overseas.

Here are the form instructions: http://www.uscis.gov/files/form/i-131instr.pdf

[gerald2k 0]

No you couldn't come for a "short visit". It would be at least 1 month. You would have to return to the US, refile for the re-entry permit, wait for biometrics, and then you could leave. You would have the re-entry permit sent to the consulate overseas.

Here are the form instructions: http://www.uscis.gov/files/form/i-131instr.pdf

Thanks for your post and link.

I'm a little confused. If I apply for the N470 and the I-131 at the same time, why would I need to apply for another I-131? Couldn't I just return to the US before the 2 year permit expires and then leave again after a one-week visit, as I said, since I'm legally allowed to leave the US for trips of less than 6 months without any permit?

[VanessaTony 3,567]

Thanks for your post and link.

I'm a little confused. If I apply for the N470 and the I-131 at the same time, why would I need to apply for another I-131? Couldn't I just return to the US before the 2 year permit expires and then leave again after a one-week visit, as I said, since I'm legally allowed to leave the US for trips of less than 6 months without any permit?

The N-470 doesn't stop CBP from determining that you've spent too much outside of the US. You could try it, but it would be risky.

[gerald2k 0]

I have a separate question:

To be eligible for the N-470, is it ok for me to go from being unemployed in the US to finding a job overseas with an American company?

or

Must I be transferred from being employed in the US by an American company and sent overseas with the same company?

so basically new employment vs. transfer

both ok?

[gerald2k 0]

I have a separate question:

To be eligible for the N-470, is it ok for me to go from being unemployed in the US to finding a job overseas with an American company?

or

Must I be transferred from being employed in the US by an American company and sent overseas with the same company?

so basically new employment vs. transfer

both ok?

Anyone have any thoughts on this: To be eligible for the N-470, is it ok for me to go from being unemployed in the US to finding a job overseas with an American company? Or must I star working in the US and be transferred?

Thanks

[VanessaTony 3,567]

Anyone have any thoughts on this: To be eligible for the N-470, is it ok for me to go from being unemployed in the US to finding a job overseas with an American company? Or must I star working in the US and be transferred?

Thanks

I would personally think it would be that you have to be hired for a position in the US and are sent overseas.

[env88 3]

Personally, I think that going from being unemployed to being hired by an American company overseas doesn't matter. They don't ask you for a resume or any kind of employment history for example.

If you are currently unemployed it's not like you have much of a choice anyway. If it matters (highly unlikely I think - how would they even know if they don't ask for this information) then your N470 would simply be denied at which point you can simply come back to the United States before the 6 months outside the country are up so you don't have any problems in the future with your citizenship application. If it doesn't matter then your N470 will be approved and you'll be able to stay abroad happily ever after as long as you keep a valid reentry permit.

I do not think however that a job at McDonald's (unless it's a corporate position) would be approved as they also look at the nature of your job.

[gerald2k 0]

Thanks. I'm going to consult an IO with an infopass appointment. The idea is to perform a corporate-type job overseas for an American company.

The other issue is whether I can work outside for 2.5-3 years, which would require extending an I-131 re-entry permit (which lasts 2 years). Also, it might make USCIS less likely to grant me naturalization if they think I've abandoned residence even though I do plan to come back. It's just about getting some international corporate experience. But sometimes these things are hard to prove, especially if one isn't wealthy enough to keep property etc. in the US while living overseas.

Edited August 12, 2013 by gerald2k

[env88 3]

As far as I know if you have a valid re-entry permit, then they cannot say you have abandoned residence. That's what the re-entry permit is for.

And if you have a valid N470 during an absence, then they cannot say you have abandonded continued residence (a requirement for citizenship) during that absence.

[VanessaTony 3,567]

As far as I know if you have a valid re-entry permit, then they cannot say you have abandoned residence. That's what the re-entry permit is for.

And if you have a valid N470 during an absence, then they cannot say you have abandonded continued residence (a requirement for citizenship) during that absence.

No. A re-entry permit DOES NOT stop you from being determined as having abandoned status (read about it). You still need to maintain your status. The only thing a re-entry permit does is allow re-entry after 1 year (up to 2 years). You still need to maintain status by filing taxes, etc etc

[env88 3]

No. A re-entry permit DOES NOT stop you from being determined as having abandoned status (read about it). You still need to maintain your status. The only thing a re-entry permit does is allow re-entry after 1 year (up to 2 years). You still need to maintain status by filing taxes, etc etc

Sorry, you're right. Under a re-entry permit you still need to maintain all the responsibilities of being a U.S. resident such as filing taxes, and filing them as a resident. And you can be questioned at an entry-point to make sure you have done this otherwise it will be determined that you chose to lose your resident status.